Which Pivots? Why no thread?

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

OK, now that this thread is thoroughly cunted up, let's move on to the standard inane discussion of the new vs. old colors, which forza was the best, etc...and how about the fact that there is going to be a 105 brake! A new brake width should be good for at least 2 pages. I'll start. I the 105 brake going to be available for the current heel or will it only be available on the new one due next season?

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Attachment 490177

https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...boots-bindings

Edit: I read your question backwards. You want to know if the new brake will work on the old binding?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

OK, now that this thread is thoroughly cunted up, let's move on to the standard inane discussion of the new vs. old colors, which forza was the best, etc...and how about the fact that there is going to be a 105 brake! A new brake width should be good for at least 2 pages. I'll start. I the 105 brake going to be available for the current heel or will it only be available on the new one due next season?

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still love me some forza 2.0. Have a few pairs of that color way.

the 105 is for sure a nice option to have now. Now do I want to put a 105 or 115 on a 110

Attachment 490178

https://www.evo.com/discover/ski/gear-preview

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Originally Posted by SirVicSmasher

You will definitely release all kinds of ways with the garbage plastic toe because that pile of dog shit flexs and spreads like your mom's vag. Metal for the win. I ski pivot because I want retention out of my bindings not release.


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Elegant prose. I couldn't put it any better. End thread

Just for fun, isn’t the current P12/14 toe the evolution of the Geze toe and the P15/P18 the actual Look toe?

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Originally Posted by Bandit Man

Just for fun, isn’t the current P12/14 toe the evolution of the Geze toe and the P15/P18 the actual Look toe?

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Henrik also has a custom 16/17 custom plastic toe as well. Forgot which din was the high.

I bet Florida snow skis in jeans and is actually Benny


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Forza 1.0 is still my favorite. Though I like all 3. Put Senders on my veneer BGs and my 18yo said it was his favorite. Looking forward to the new colors next year. They can join the 7 pair I have in my garage. [emoji1787]

So weird ... it's almost like this conversation has happened before...

I mean, who has a long pipe or a 2x4 they can stick in their boot and wrench it to simulate a rearward fall. It’s insane we can’t get to the bottom of this debate, on TGR of all places.

Also, metal>


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So the toe on a pivot binding does not have enough downward travel in the front of the toe to properly release a boot vertically. Not even close. So just to reinforce my statement and known mechanics of the binding I lowered the din on a pair of 18’s. Put a boot in, used a long lever to try to get the boot to release vertically to no avail due to the lack of space under the toe that will not allow the front of the toe to travel down enough to allow the boot to release.
Now a twisting reverse fall it will release but that is not purely vertical, it’s at an angle. Pretty sure we/I was trolled into doing this. I also don’t believe marketing speak as they used their words very carefully to not mention it nor admit to it.


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@OP I just got some pivot 12s — usually go 14 but like you only ride DIN around 9.5
Corbetts had em for cheap once you account for the Canadian peso

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

So the toe on a pivot binding does not have enough downward travel in the front of the toe to properly release a boot vertically. Not even close. So just to reinforce my statement and known mechanics of the binding I lowered the din on a pair of 18’s. Put a boot in, used a long lever to try to get the boot to release vertically to no avail due to the lack of space under the toe that will not allow the front of the toe to travel down enough to allow the boot to release.
Now a twisting reverse fall it will release but that is not purely vertical, it’s at an angle. Pretty sure we/I was trolled into doing this. I also don’t believe marketing speak as they used their words very carefully to not mention it nor admit to it.


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Pics or it didn’t happen! :fm:

(Honestly not surprised, but I think the marketing is misleading in that case.)

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Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp

How much are you even saving with the 12s? The 15s are less than $275 from my boy Bob. Metal > plastic

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Thanks for the lead. I hadn’t seen that when searching. Haven’t ever bought from them before.

I grabbed a pair of 3.0 Forza 15s for $271 and free shipping.

I wish they still had solid orange or pink.

Also, dumb me all my other skis have 14s. Haven’t ever had a pair of 12s.

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Originally Posted by Hood26

Thanks for the lead. I hadn’t seen that when searching. Haven’t ever bought from them before.

I grabbed a pair of 3.0 Forza 15s for $271 and free shipping.

I wish they still had solid orange or pink.

Also, dumb me all my other skis have 14s. Haven’t ever had a pair of 12s.

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You can get 15s from Corbetts for under $200 shipped.

On the topic of next years and brake sizes... it looks like the 105mm brake will work with the 2.0 & 1.0 versions. Only the two new colors, blue steel 2.0 & "Super Edition"

Attachment 490211

I don't personally know if 15s release vertically, but I have also recently committed to the spx 12.

I'm not hard on my gear, not very rad, and I personally have never blown out of the current version when I didn't think I should have. I also run DIN 8.

And they are cheaper. And easier to set forward pressure.

And way easier to step into than the old axial 3.

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Didn’t watch this with sound on so not sure what this guy is trying to show, but based on the movement of the toe I’d agree with those saying pure upward release isn’t possible.

https://youtu.be/oy6Ej6HiUM8?si=xTbdjq1SErLQQrVj


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Just some noisy boots in that video. He didn’t talk at all.

I have a pair of SPXs on 90mm skis. They do their job.

I Checked Corbetts just now and they would have been $20 cheaper, but I wanted the 115 and those were sold out. 95 probably would have bent to fit 110mm but I think the 115 will fit easier. Maybe need a little bending still.

The blue steel coming out look pretty slick.

Looks like blue steel and Super Edition in my future.

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Originally Posted by SirVicSmasher

You will definitely release all kinds of ways with the garbage plastic toe because that pile of dog shit flexs and spreads like your mom's vag. Metal for the win. I ski pivot because I want retention out of my bindings not release.


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That’s the trg spirit!
And posted at 4:20

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Now a twisting reverse fall it will release but that is not purely vertical, it’s at an angle. Pretty sure we/I was trolled into doing this. I also don’t believe marketing speak as they used their words very carefully to not mention it nor admit to it.


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Correct. Actual engineer here who often worked with Marketing and Legal to get the technical claim language correct.

Maybe one day FloridaMan will reread that marketing claim & realize what it is and is not saying.

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Originally Posted by frorider

Correct. Actual engineer here who often worked with Marketing and Legal to get the technical claim language correct.

Maybe one day FloridaMan will reread that marketing claim & realize what it is and is not saying.

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Also an engineer here. One who has never worked on marketing claims.

I buy that they’re trying to be careful with their claim. But what’s your interpretation of them saying all toes ‘protect the skier in all cases of falls, including rear and combined falls’?

Specifically, what’s the ‘protection’ being referenced in a straight rearward fall? (Since if it’s not straight rearward it’s combined or lateral.)

The fact that it moves vertically a little is the ‘protection’?

What if a binding manufacturer were to make a binding that didn’t release at all, just moved a little in each direction. Could they sell it as offering ‘protection’?

I’m not trying to be argumentative, just probing to get your perspective.

technician here

who made it work

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

technician here

who made it work

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Plenty of technicians and mechanics who have helped make my stuff work, or work better.

My support guy would call the engineers in the factory who would say " that can't happen "

but of course it did and we made it work anyway

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Originally Posted by Hood26

Thanks for the lead. I hadn’t seen that when searching. Haven’t ever bought from them before.

I grabbed a pair of 3.0 Forza 15s for $271 and free shipping.

I wish they still had solid orange or pink.

Also, dumb me all my other skis have 14s. Haven’t ever had a pair of 12s.

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Sweet! Bob is legit. You might not receive anything about the order for a week and wonder if its a scam, but it'll come. Usually seems to take 7-10 days from order to delivery date.


One nuance of that site is prices on many items change literally daily and they often price certain sizes differently. Took about a month of pressing F5 before they dropped 28.5 shadows to $398 from $750. The entire time they were pricing other sizes quite low so I figured 28.5 would eventually drop.

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Originally Posted by ASmileyFace

On the topic of next years and brake sizes... it looks like the 105mm brake will work with the 2.0 & 1.0 versions. Only the two new colors, blue steel 2.0 & "Super Edition"

Attachment 490211

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thanks for this^^^I imagine at some point we’ll be able to buy the 105 brakes separately.


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Supposition on why the Pivot 18 is being offered in black with 75mil brakes? Is this a push to get folks to buy the 2.0? If that’s the case why so many offerings in the 15? Based on the offerings, it looks like the 15 is the most popular.

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Originally Posted by Hood26

Supposition on why the Pivot 18 is being offered in black with 75mil brakes? Is this a push to get folks to buy the 2.0? If that’s the case why so many offerings in the 15? Based on the offerings, it looks like the 15 is the most popular.

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18 with 76mm is for racers duh

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And/or the freestyle skiers.

As someone who started skiing late in life I'm Pivot-curious. How much better are Pivots? I've gone through a fair number of skis in the last 5 years just getting a feel for what changes with width, length, flex, and camber curves but my bindings have stayed relatively constant with Tyrolia Attack demos, Shifts, and ATKs. What difference should I expect to feel if I mount a pair of Pivots? I typically ski with my DIN at 8, it sounds like the P15 is the sweet spot for most people but will I get much advantage from that over the P12? I'm not dropping anything or hitting jumps on skis, my pace in bumps is moderate.

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Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp

Sweet! Bob is legit. You might not receive anything about the order for a week and wonder if its a scam, but it'll come. Usually seems to take 7-10 days from order to delivery date.


One nuance of that site is prices on many items change literally daily and they often price certain sizes differently. Took about a month of pressing F5 before they dropped 28.5 shadows to $398 from $750. The entire time they were pricing other sizes quite low so I figured 28.5 would eventually drop.

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Jesus Christ. I just learned what F5 does.

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Originally Posted by Jason4

As someone who started skiing late in life I'm Pivot-curious. How much better are Pivots? I've gone through a fair number of skis in the last 5 years just getting a feel for what changes with width, length, flex, and camber curves but my bindings have stayed relatively constant with Tyrolia Attack demos, Shifts, and ATKs. What difference should I expect to feel if I mount a pair of Pivots? I typically ski with my DIN at 8, it sounds like the P15 is the sweet spot for most people but will I get much advantage from that over the P12? I'm not dropping anything or hitting jumps on skis, my pace in bumps is moderate.

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I have Pivots, SPXs and Attacks in my quiver. I'm happy with all of them. I like the Attacks a lot, actually, and for some skis it's nice to have a little bit of BSL adjustment so you can share them with others.

Demo bindings, on the other hand, change the feel of the ski to me.

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Originally Posted by EWG

I have Pivots, SPXs and Attacks in my quiver. I'm happy with all of them. I like the Attacks a lot, actually, and for some skis it's nice to have a little bit of BSL adjustment so you can share them with others.

Demo bindings, on the other hand, change the feel of the ski to me.

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I went with demo bindings so I could play with the mount point trying to get a feel for how a ski changes as I move the mount forward and backwards. I think I understand that better now and wouldn't buy another pair of demo bindings. I do like to be able to change boots or share skis with friends though and it seems like Pivots are a commitment to one specific boot with the ski it's mounted on.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

So the toe on a pivot binding does not have enough downward travel in the front of the toe to properly release a boot vertically. Not even close. So just to reinforce my statement and known mechanics of the binding I lowered the din on a pair of 18’s. Put a boot in, used a long lever to try to get the boot to release vertically to no avail due to the lack of space under the toe that will not allow the front of the toe to travel down enough to allow the boot to release.
Now a twisting reverse fall it will release but that is not purely vertical, it’s at an angle. Pretty sure we/I was trolled into doing this. I also don’t believe marketing speak as they used their words very carefully to not mention it nor admit to it.


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So they have multi directional release?


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Lol

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Originally Posted by Hood26

Supposition on why the Pivot 18 is being offered in black with 75mil brakes? Is this a push to get folks to buy the 2.0? If that’s the case why so many offerings in the 15? Based on the offerings, it looks like the 15 is the most popular.

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They have offered those for years. Nothing new. Racer/freestyle binding. Easy to swap the brakes and have a black set.

Noticed no Harlaut binding next year. Wish we could get another Forza. Forza 1.0 and 2.0 seemed like only 1 season each and 3.0 is going into it's 3rd season.

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Originally Posted by Jason4

As someone who started skiing late in life I'm Pivot-curious. How much better are Pivots? I've gone through a fair number of skis in the last 5 years just getting a feel for what changes with width, length, flex, and camber curves but my bindings have stayed relatively constant with Tyrolia Attack demos, Shifts, and ATKs. What difference should I expect to feel if I mount a pair of Pivots? I typically ski with my DIN at 8, it sounds like the P15 is the sweet spot for most people but will I get much advantage from that over the P12? I'm not dropping anything or hitting jumps on skis, my pace in bumps is moderate.

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IMHO the only reason you want Pivots is for the magical heel retention. And this is why I'm so SPX curious because, holy shit, the brakes on Pivots are a joke, but understandably necessary due to the design. I am familiar with and have skied Royal family bindings, Attacks, and Salomons, I currently have 3 pair of Pivots in use and one pair of STH2 16's. This is not internet BS: I run the toes of all bindings on the same DIN, regardless of maker. The heel DINs on my Pivots match my toe DINs. The heels of any other binding I run 2 DIN higher. It's not believable, to me, how insanely good the Pivot heel is at keeping my skis on.

I am familiar with the SPX but have never skied them. If the heel elasticity is as claimed by Look then it should function every bit as well as the Pivot does. I don't really care about the metal toe (my toes are metal but I really do not believe I would feel a difference) but from a marketing perspective Look would be well served to put an SPX 15 retail flat mount into the line up. I need to try some SPX's because I'd be sold if the heel worked as well as the Pivot heel.

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Originally Posted by phatty

They have offered those for years. Nothing new. Racer/freestyle binding. Easy to swap the brakes and have a black set.
.

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My question wasn’t why a 75mm brake in black, but rather why only a 75mm brake? Essentially, the Pivot 18 is fading out for the 2.0. I am wondering if they left the 75mm brakes on the product sheet because they have a back-stock?

To the dude asking my original question about 12s, based on my actual skis and responses here; jump up to the 14 at least. Also, it’s not BS that you will get a better flex and feel out of the skis.