[QUOTE= More to come. I promise![/QUOTE]
Thanks Marshall. Look forward to hearing about it.
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[QUOTE= More to come. I promise![/QUOTE]
Thanks Marshall. Look forward to hearing about it.
I’m into the taper profile. In my experience the OG Devastator was kind of a hog in untracked powder for a 111mm under foot full reverse camber ski, at least until you were really hauling ass. They weren’t as drifty and surfy in fresh as I would have hoped for. A ski that can still carve well and maintains most of the feel the OG Dev had in chop, all mountain and corn conditions while being more fun in powder seems ideal to me.
Got damn, these specs just get better and better! These skis are gettin me randy AF, I have got to stay out of this damn thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
more to come ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by skisurfmirth
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
Like CaliBrit, I couldn't picture this in my head until you posted that video, so just saying thanks gaijin for posting that link!
After watching the sequences starting around ~1:33 and ~1:41 with speed slowed down, you can see the racer dig his tails in to scrub speed, and then see the effect of pressure being shifted from the tails back to the tips, to initiate and then complete the carve. I'm gonna be working on this technique for the rest of the season.
And echoing another big "Thanks!" to Marshal for making HL a reality--the demo 180 R99 AM50/50s should arrive this week, and I can't wait to get them on the hill!
In addition to the R99, the FR110 (as well as potential shorter 180ish FL105 and C105 if/when available) are now all on my radar too, so it's no longer a question of "Should I buy?", but "How many models can I afford?"
Ok, so super fun testing yesterday. Really glad to have gotten it in, and Thanks for OldSchool1080's for the loaner Sickles. Standard caveat that this is just one guy's opinion, with inherent bias.
HIGH LEVEL. The sickle might be one of the most predictable "jack of all trades" skis I have ever been on. Huge sweet spot. Super round and easy to ski slow on a cat track. Loose and drifty off edge mid-speed. Engaged and carvy fast on groomers. In the below comparisons, I am A-Bing two skis, not trying to do indepth reviews, and not going to benchmark them with a lot of other skis, since I found them much more similar than different.
MODEST SPEEDS. The Sickle is a very easy ski to manage with light input. It is dead easy. Just does whatever you want skiing from the ankles. In comparison, the FR110 was still super easy, but may like a little more input, and in exchange can make more turn shapes at slower speed. With the FR110 keep your weight forward as you come across the fall line, and the ski releases into a super nice drift. Move your weight back and it rounds quite well. The Sickle is easier and requires less input, but doesn't have as many tricks up its sleeve IMO & needs a little more input to release and drift turns.
HIGH SPEED / CONSISTENT. Again, the sickle hooks up really well. With speed, its personality feels a little more subdued than the FR110. It is super there and confident, where the FR110 has a little more perkiness to its nature at speed. The FR110 is a little more torsionally rigid overall and a little stiffer underfoot, so I would say they hold an edge similarly, but a little differently. The Sickle grips a long EE (182 Sickle has +10cm EE vs. 186 FR110) and is quite round of a flex pattern, where the FR110 has more taper, more rocker, so looser at shallow edge angles, but tracks as cleanly for me once I was up on edge at relatively higher edge angles. At medium-fast speeds where the FR110 was nice and locked in, the Sickle was starting to come unglued from the snow.
SOFT SNOW / CHOP. Part of this may be due to length, but for me, skiing into hot pow, slush bumps, etc the FR110 thrives, where the sickle was more just competent. The combination of almost no taper, and basically dead flat rocker gave me a few "oh shit" moments in snow that the FR110 didn't flinch at.
FLAT RUNNING / REFROZEN. The FR110 is a notably more bumpy ride when running bases flat on refrozen / hardpack type snow. The Sickle tracks super smooth, where the ends of the FR110 are flapping around a little bit. In this snow, it took a good amount of speed and getting up on edge to approximate the smooth ride that the Sickle provided in this snow condition, no matter what you did to it (low angle turns, drifts, bases flat, etc).
CONCLUSION. The FR110 is a little more loose, a little more biased toward speed, and a little more biased toward soft snow. The Sickle reminds me of a Freeride Carving ski - super clean and round, very versatile, and never nervous. My view is that for folks that like the Sickle, and wish it was better in soft snow and chop or carried speed a little better in broken snow, then I think the FR110 would be awesome for you. For the folks who love the extreme predictability and plantedness of the Sickle on firmer snow, the FR110 may be a bit more lively and loose than what you are looking for (though, again, they are pretty similar compared to pretty much any other skis I have tried).
For folks without Sickle experience, I'd say it reminds me most of a hybrid of an EHP in soft snow and Devestator in bumps, corn, groomers, crud, etc.
LMK how they go for you!Quote:
Originally Posted by IJK2009
Cheers
Thx for the thoughts!
I'm extremely hyped for these.
Thanks for the comparison Marshal! My biggest complaint about my sickles is the lack of "top end" in deeper soft snow and chop. I've found myself wanted just a bit more length, stability and speed in those kind of conditions and it sounds like the FR110 have nailed that perfectly. The FR110 taking a little more input to get on edge and being slightly looser, sounds like a good thing overall too.
One thing I love about my Sickle's is the plantedness and stability in firmer snow. Between the FR110 being a little less stable running flat and losing 10+cm of EE I am sightly nervous I won't grab these skis when conditions are more variable. I tended to grab my sickles as long as there was a chance of softer snow anywhere on the mountain. Based on your comparison, I will likely grab the FR110 when I can guarantee soft snow on "most" of the mountain.
Do not get me wrong, I am still very excited for the FR110 but it sounds like they are more different than I initially expected.
Thanks Marshall. That’s a great comparative review. Sound really fun.
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The firm snow comments have me a little nervous as I really value suspension back to the lift on packed out groomers when my legs are gassed after bashing steeps. Can you give a few more comparisons to other skis? How much better are the FL113 and FL105 for bases flat skiing at speed on refrozen?
I have no experience on the Sickle, EHP, or Dev. But I am so stoked to get this ski. I have no actual value to add to this thread apart from my excitement for the ski and for supporting this project. I only wish I had mo’ money to build a full HL quiver.
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Thanks for the reading, very interesting to always see some more takes on the Sickle. The higher top end of FR110 sounds very enticing but I still value hardpack performance quite a bit as weekend warrior that does most of their skiing in the resort. The Sickle's combination of railing carves, slarveability, and 110 waist is still what I look for in a west coast daily driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
Thanks for the thoughts. I can only speak for myself, but with the FR110, I have been testing them the past week on 50-60F days with sun in and out of clouds. So anytime it clouds over, the snow glazes and sets up. I would say that the FR110 made any turn I wanted, at and speed I wanted, in any snow, from boot top heavier pow, to skied up crud, to mash potatoes, packed groomers, rock hard bed surface, and hard setup moguls. It holds a carve very well on firm snow.Quote:
Originally Posted by ASmileyFace
It is however, a reverse camber ski, so running bases flat on refrozen cat tracks requires a modicum of attention. Definitely not work, but just need to pay a little attention. For me, purely personally, I will grab the FR110 every time I don't want to go mach looney on my FL's, want to slash my turns, and will use them in every condition from hard windbuff, to pure pow, and variable spring snow.
Sure man!Quote:
Originally Posted by CouloirInTheLines
Relatively to the FL113, I think most skiers will find the FL113 to be by far the most physically demanding, in terms of needing a strong pilot, and then them also putting a lot of input into the skis (or just straight lining everything). For fast enough and strong enough skiers, I don't think they are demanding overall, but rather super rewarding. I don't mean this as some ego trip thing, but they are for skiers who are passing every other person on the mountain every single run. Unless that is exactly what one is looking for, the FR110 is going to be DRAMATICALLY more user friendly and less demanding in pow, heavier/cut up snow, carving groomed slopes, and in the woods. In the condition I mention (flat cat tracks that are continuously refrozen after going to corn), a less rockered ski would ride a bit smoother, but at the same time, that seems like a very narrow performance area to optimize for considering the rest of the mountain!
Regarding the FL105, these are more close in use, but very different in personality. The FR110 is a slasher that can shut it down at the drop of a dime, carry speed like water down a pane of glass in dense technical lines, or open it up and rip out aprons. I feel that any turn is on tap at any time, irregardless of snow condition. The FL105 is a fall line ski, meaning it is most rewarding for skiing with your shoulders and hips square and straight down the hill. It certainly hooks up and carves really well, but it isn't rounding turns across the fall line. It carves down the fall line. And it takes more input to drift. Not a ton overall, compared to most skis with similar top end, but notably more input that the FR110.
I will get pretty similar # of days on the 105 and 110 myself. I would not choose one over the other in terms of snow conditions, but rather what I am looking to do and how I want to ski on that day. The FL skis will get the call when I want to bomb the mountain every run. The FR110 will get the call when I want to slash and drift more.
Of note, all of these skis have the same construction, which I think anyone who has skied on them would say they are very very smooth of a ride. So snowfeel is similar. The difference is in length of contact with the snow vs. rocker and length of effective edge vs. taper
Hope this helps!
*DTM has entered the chat*Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
:D
I want all three!!!
Right?! MO has a way of describing these skis that makes me want them all!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Thanks, Marshal. As others have said they all sound awesome. I’ll see how I get on with the FR110 and go from there but as usual I feel the answer is going to be n+1…
Only point of clarification is I’m not concerned about flat cattracks but groomed blues and blacks that get chopped up and refrozen. Something like Meadow/Nina’s at Alta that you might hit 5-10 times per day on your way back to the lift and you can take at pretty high speeds. I guess it’s a somewhat narrow performance area but a run like that is often 25-40% of every run as most lifts and base areas aren’t right at the bottom of steep technical faces.
Sure thing man! Everyone’s different of course, but I personally really like how well the FR110 carves on trails like that… they can be super lazy and just slide turns, or on high edge and carve the shit out of em. Your choice!
with respect to “bumpy ride” I was talking more about flat cat tracks (like Black Jack Rd at Snowbird) when they get refrozen and you are skiing bases flat in a straight line. Not hard to ski at all, just need to pay a little more attention than a normal ski.
How do they ski manky groomer compared to vibro core hojis? I personally think those can rail turns on any conditions so if it’s at all similar, that’s as much as I’d need.
Based on the shape this will for sure be better than hojis on hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
Hmm. only skied the OG hojis for a couple runs many years ago. Assuming that Vibrocore is the new light ones? If so, these will be significantly more engaged and carvy in spring snow, due to mass (approx 350g heavier), lower tip (7cm vs 9cm), longer EE, and damper more powerful construction.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
VibeVeil (tm) was the neoprene layer in the older heavy devs, hojis... Rens too? Ended after 2018?
Sorry, yeah vibeveil. Significantly damper than the more modern Hoji. Don’t know about the redesigned ones though.
Good to know either way. I love carving but you do have to have certain expectations for pow skis. Hojis are fun as shit to carve, I found on3p billy goats terrible to carve.
These skis seem like a sweet everyday ski. @skisurfmirth buy some so I can test. ;)
Got it yes! It’s basically extra rubber. Makes for the dampness. Like that! Yes!
Loving my FL113 more and more in spring conditions, and my comments in the fl113 thread are essentially that, aside from fall line charging/raging on runouts, the standout features of the fl113 for me are:
1.) the dampness/suspension of the HL freeride construction. It's better than old dynastar XXL's i have used as a benchmark for 15 years and sender squads I briefly owned. I think others like bry and sylvan can comment on their experience with fl113 vs blister's "mount rushmore" sender squad (fwiw they both did much better on that ski than i did), but i think the HL construction bests it
2.) the edgehold on refrozen. It seriously is a metal, non-metal charger. It is completely confidence inspiring on refrozen when venturing off piste too soon in a spring morning. It makes coral reef more tolerable than any ski I have ever been on
Obviously the fr110 shape change will effect these properties and diminish some of the grip and suspension, but it took my outriggering ass 5-6 days and some playing with the edge tune to get a handle on the fl113. It definitely was a wild ride for me at first and required game on all the time skillz. I don't know if it's the forgiving nature of spring corn and slush, but i no longer feel that way anymore, but it was NOT a jump on and rip right away ski for me. The fr110 will definitely be easier. Coming from OG devastators (the only forward mounted ski i have gotten along with in years), i know what he means by choosing the fr110 vs fl113 (and fl105?) based on turn shape you feel like making that day. It's a style thing with some notable differences in bite vs smear more than a sheer capability thing
I’ll see how the fire season goes!Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
Marshal, thanks for your reply in the FL113 thread. I hadn’t considered the FR110 because of the more forward mount point. I haven’t skied a lot of skis with that progressive of a mount but generally didn’t love the ones I tried (sickday 104, deathwish) but they were also a lot lighter and softer which could be part of it. You generally like traditional mount points so I’m curious if you think for a reverse camber ski like this might not be an issue.
Also curious if you have any reference of how they carve on soft groomers compared to the Billygoats, v-werks katana or Dynastar Big Dumps. I’m not looking for a carver, but I want something I can put on edge and put some weight into it. I found billygoats can go fast on edge but you can’t really lean on them. Where the Katana and Big Dumps you can put some force into them.
I borrowed the FR110s for a few laps at Snowbird this past weekend and these skis delivered a super high level of smiles per minute across all types of soft snow. A buddy and I both skied them and over beers on the plaza after skiing we agreed that they make the mountain feel like a video game. They are predicable and ski well if you're just carving normal turns in soft snow, but the moment you start popping off features, slashing lips, drifting turns, and looking for features to play on they really come alive and prove their value.
A great test piece for these was taking them into the spring wiggles that pop up all over the mountain this time of year. I brought my FL113s into a wiggle in the morning and got my ass kicked, but switching to the FL110s in the afternoon made me look at the whole mountain, and wiggles, differently. Being able to scrub speed, slash turns while still moving across the fall line, and pivot in the tight corners really made me appreciate the rocker profile and use case for these skis. I could see these as a fantastic 1 ski quiver for places that get good snow and have more playful terrain, resorts like bachelor, red, solitude, and the wildcat lift at alta come to mind.
This pleases me.
I had ACL reconstruction surgery today, but have a FR110 on the way!
Rad dude! Glad they treated you well. Curious how your more freestyle oriented buddy got on with them too... recognizing the mount was probably more like -2 from where he would have enjoyed them most.Quote:
Originally Posted by soul_skier
He dug them a ton! Lots of slashing lips and at one point I looked over my shoulder and he was skiing the wiggle switch and not looking completely out of control. No issues keeping up with the rest of the group on chargier skis like wildcats, bodacious, and FL113s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
Super stoked you both enjoyed them. As a non-native English speaker, I'm just stuck wondering what a wiggle is. Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by soul_skier
support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com
https://freeskier.com/wp-content/upl...e_Featured.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by arild
https://www.skiutah.com/blog/authors...inline-display
Hilarious explanation of the word “wiggle.”
All props go to Jupiter.
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Can't believe people ski/board those fkn things:nonono2:(I mean, kids,I get it)
Guess we all have our own idea of fun!
Kinda like wearing Beaver suits to go ski n shit, wtf?
Dood. The FR110 big guns look sick. 193.5 TL, 2500 g/ski, mount at -7, reverse, HL Freeride layup. Curious how they’ll flex on snow; really looking forward to ride reports once they get out in the wild. Gawd, I want them all.
192?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvan
Same rocker profile as the 186, or perhaps a bit flatter?
http://heritagelabskis.com/products/fr110Quote:
Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister
Yah, not sure. The website spec sheet has the 192 listed as 193.5 TL. Definitely looking forward to hearing what MO has planned, and seeing the rocker porn when it’s out and about.