Return of the R/R - Heritage Lab 132 - Dedicated Thread

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Originally Posted by nkimmes

Pulled the trigger on 190 c132s a few days ago. Psyched to get these out for AK pow touring this year! Hopefully the snow stays as good as its been these last few weeks.

Marshall, can you comment on mount point a little bit? I've been skiing the Armada ARG II UL quite a bit this season. That thing is mounted pretty far forward (-5.5 I think), but it seems to ski well at this point. I understand that the mount point on this vs the c132 are quite different and is likely attributed to differences is rocker/taper profiles/etc. Any reason to deviate from -11.5 as recommended on the c132?

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yeah man!

Great question. So I definitely updated the shape to be more accommodating to modern mounts. The -11.5 mount is as far back as anyone might want (ie max directionality & alpine boots inbounds on the FR132). I would say -9.5 would be good for most skiers in somewhat more upright boots, and -7.5 for “modern” skiers.

after testing the first sample a bit now, I have confirmed that I will be skiing the c132 with my lightest most upright boots the most, and will be moving my mount to -10 (I like very far setback mounts typically).

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

I would say the biggest factor in making a ski smooth and slice through funky snow is the weight. The next biggest is the flex pattern (suspension as blister would say).

For me, on these carbon skis, I wanted them light, but not overly so. The c132 @ 190cm is 1950g

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Quick question — I'm getting closer to placing an order. You wrote in the first post +/- 1,950g/ski, and sounds like you may have gotten your sample above @ 1,950.

When I went back on the website I noticed it says "Target weight 2075g at 190cm." Is that old info?

May not matter to most, but I'm 100% human-powered so want to know what I'm getting.

Seems like many production samples I've seen/prototypes often come in heavier in the production versions (K2 Dispatch comes to mind).

Thanks!!

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

I am mounting my first article pair tonight, and just waiting for the skins to arrive. Hoping to ski them this weekend or early next week! I will be looking to also test them with both my bigger boots (1450g Vanguard) as well as my little boots (900g Raceborg), because I think the R/R will pair with freerided out race boots in an amazing way.

More to come! Let me know if you have any follow up questions!

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You get ‘em out for the maiden voyage?

Hey Marshal, forgive me if you answered this elsewhere but what was the reasoning behind changing the design from C138 to C132. Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought the first run were going to be C138 but I don't see anything about those on the website. Also, are there options for different, more plain graphics or just the one option? Thanks!

Yo!

So yes indeed, I have gotten a good number of turns on the C132, including this AM where it was 4" of cream cheese graupel-pow and I could back-to-back them against my BMT122's. In case it isn't obvious, these are just my honest unfiltered thoughts, but well... I am biased as hell so just calling that out at the onset.

At the highest level, they turned out EXACTLY how I wanted, and truly and honestly believe that any R/R-lover or R/R-curious skier will be very mesh quite quickly with the 132.

I am very glad that I went with the 132mm width. I have always thought that 125 (spatula) was too skinny and approaching/exceeding 140 (basically everything else) was too wide, and right around 130 (OG Pontoon) was perfect. The ski definitely skinned better on established tracks than I am used to on wider R/R skis and was noticeably more friendly on the knees when exiting tight sketchy luge runs.

I was very curious of was how the tip would behave, as there is a magic angle on the shovel's reverse section that slices through setting-up snow, and the 132 nailed that in the funky snow I skied today. A side benefit is that since the tip is narrower, the ski has the laser-fast turn initiation of the original "pointy tip" R/R skisala the Spatula and its derivatives.

I also updated the tail taper and flex pattern to have a larger sweet spot, where the 132 would/should be happy from -11 for directional chargers to -8.5 or so for modern/neutral skiers. The tail itself feels a bit more slashy as well.

Lastly, it was very much eye-opening comparing the 132 to my BMT122s (which are rad skis)... honestly, I don't really ever see using the BMT again. The BMT122 was slightly easier to skin up firm off-camber sections, but the 132 is so much quicker and slashier coming back down. I much preferred the 132 in tricky snow, thought they were about the same on luge runs, skinning was pretty close (for me at least - as someone who has skinned ALOT on wide reverse camber skis), and the 132 just gives so much more real estate to move your body weight around (which is really nice on 1000g boots, as they are softer with shorter cuffs, so your body naturally moves more and the ski is so damn easy to ski in soft snow).

Hoping Mc_Roon gets a chance to mount his FR132 and give them a spin at the bird sometime. Those things are going to annhilate inbound pow days, me thinks! Combining the mass and surfyness of a spatula with the width and length of the Pontoon, the stability of a damp charging ski, all in a R/R package. Can't wait!

Anyhow, super fired up. Making those turns the last few days has really validated this project for me.

I am also STOKED to share that the coming round of Freeride and Carbon skis (132 and 113 shapes) should be shipping to me quite soon... they are in finishing as we speak.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

For me, on these carbon skis, I wanted them light, but not overly so. The c132 @ 190cm is 1950g, and that, as you say, is about the same weight as a much narrower and slightly shorter Corvus Firebird. But it's not crazy light like the Bd 115/116 @ ~1600g. At least for me, this build strikes the perfect balance between been light enough to skin bigger days on, but not being too light and, literally, harshing the mellow. I also am super happy with the flex pattern, as I believe it will feel poppy, smooth and responsive, even on firmer snow.

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I have found in my own experience slogging around on heavy skis that 2000g is the threshold for wanting to tour on a ski for any real amount of time. I've done 5k+ days on 2400g skis and while "doable" it isn't easy. 5k on 2000g skis that still rip feels a lot more reasonable. My 190cm Lotus 120s pure3 are about 2000g and fill that niche for me right now, but I am intensely curious about the C132... might have to put an order in come fall.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Yo!

So yes indeed, I have gotten a good number of turns on the C132, including this AM where it was 4" of cream cheese graupel-pow and I could back-to-back them against my BMT122's. In case it isn't obvious, these are just my honest unfiltered thoughts, but well... I am biased as hell so just calling that out at the onset.

At the highest level, they turned out EXACTLY how I wanted, and truly and honestly believe that any R/R-lover or R/R-curious skier will be very mesh quite quickly with the 132.

I am very glad that I went with the 132mm width. I have always thought that 125 (spatula) was too skinny and approaching/exceeding 140 (basically everything else) was too wide, and right around 130 (OG Pontoon) was perfect. The ski definitely skinned better on established tracks than I am used to on wider R/R skis and was noticeably more friendly on the knees when exiting tight sketchy luge runs.

I was very curious of was how the tip would behave, as there is a magic angle on the shovel's reverse section that slices through setting-up snow, and the 132 nailed that in the funky snow I skied today. A side benefit is that since the tip is narrower, the ski has the laser-fast turn initiation of the original "pointy tip" R/R skisala the Spatula and its derivatives.

I also updated the tail taper and flex pattern to have a larger sweet spot, where the 132 would/should be happy from -11 for directional chargers to -8.5 or so for modern/neutral skiers. The tail itself feels a bit more slashy as well.

Lastly, it was very much eye-opening comparing the 132 to my BMT122s (which are rad skis)... honestly, I don't really ever see using the BMT again. The BMT122 was slightly easier to skin up firm off-camber sections, but the 132 is so much quicker and slashier coming back down. I much preferred the 132 in tricky snow, thought they were about the same on luge runs, skinning was pretty close (for me at least - as someone who has skinned ALOT on wide reverse camber skis), and the 132 just gives so much more real estate to move your body weight around (which is really nice on 1000g boots, as they are softer with shorter cuffs, so your body naturally moves more and the ski is so damn easy to ski in soft snow).

Hoping Mc_Roon gets a chance to mount his FR132 and give them a spin at the bird sometime. Those things are going to annhilate inbound pow days, me thinks! Combining the mass and surfyness of a spatula with the width and length of the Pontoon, the stability of a damp charging ski, all in a R/R package. Can't wait!

Anyhow, super fired up. Making those turns the last few days has really validated this project for me.

I am also STOKED to share that the coming round of Freeride and Carbon skis (132 and 113 shapes) should be shipping to me quite soon... they are in finishing as we speak.

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Thanks for the info Marshal!

I’m having a hard time
Not speculating how much fun I’d have on some C132’s set up with really tiny bindings….


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Hey Marshal, I was going through some pretty turbulent times (see the Tammy Wynette thread) while you were taking preorders for the c132, and I had neither the resources nor the emotional bandwidth to consider a new pair of skis. I assume the answer is "you snooze you lose", but if there ends up being an extra pair of c132s from this run, please let me know!!

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Right here man https://heritagelabskis.com/products/c132

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Originally Posted by riff

I’m having a hard time
Not speculating how much fun I’d have on some C132’s set up with really tiny bindings….


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Hey Riff,

You can try mine when you make it up here to the Methow. I'll have alpinists on them.

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

Hey Riff,

You can try mine when you make it up here to the Methow. I'll have alpinists on them.

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What length did you get?

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Originally Posted by ASP

Right here man https://heritagelabskis.com/products/c132

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I saw the note that says "production is now locked on these skis" and assumed that meant no more orders. Am I wrong?

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Originally Posted by tgapp

I saw the note that says "production is now locked on these skis" and assumed that meant no more orders. Am I wrong?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

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Not quite, Marshal ordered a few more pairs than what was pre-ordered so there are still some available. If you can order and pay online then they are available! I just ordered a pair of AM99s as a result.

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Originally Posted by tgapp

I saw the note that says "production is now locked on these skis" and assumed that meant no more orders. Am I wrong?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

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Yes, exactly, there are a couple extra pairs available of many models. If its in stock, I have an extra for you!!!

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Originally Posted by jackattack

What length did you get?

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190's for my chubby little legs. You're welcome to give them a try as well. Could bring them down to Wenatchee or Mission sometime. I'm going to be using the shit out of them as soon as they get here.

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

I'm going to be using the shit out of them as soon as they get here.

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Bated breath, man.

I bailed down to the 190cm upon considering arboreal proclivities.

Quitter, staying the course with my 200s hahahah


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yehhhh well if I ever skied wide open pow I'd have stayed the course. The lighter weight and (expected) slightly better behavior in trees and on skintrack led me to downsize. Oh and my svelte azz and gentle touch. Not like the 190 is small, tho :)

Hahahaha, totally, just giving ya shit! Mentally I’m still on the fence.


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The correct answer is both the 190 & 200

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

The correct answer is both the 190 & 200

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I'll need help justifying more skis in the 130+ category to the significant other, though the past 2 weeks in UT have been a good use case for having a quiver of full R/R skis. How many skis in the 132-138 range is acceptable?

Biggest question I have for you is how do you adjust your skiing style to drive skis this big with 1000g boots? I'm in dobermans for an inbounds boot and love the flex, lean, and weight to drive big skis, but when I'm touring in scarpa maestrales they feel a bit vague as i'm so accustomed to the preciseness of a race boot inbounds.

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Originally Posted by upallnight

Quick question — I'm getting closer to placing an order. You wrote in the first post +/- 1,950g/ski, and sounds like you may have gotten your sample above @ 1,950.

When I went back on the website I noticed it says "Target weight 2075g at 190cm." Is that old info?

May not matter to most, but I'm 100% human-powered so want to know what I'm getting.

Seems like many production samples I've seen/prototypes often come in heavier in the production versions (K2 Dispatch comes to mind).

Thanks!!

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Bump for this query: have you measured a production model MO?

Yes, thanks for re-posting that, sorry to have missed it before.
2075g is old and needs to be edited on the site.
the verified weight for my pair here is ~1950g +/-
This skis is not changed at all for production.

Oh outstanding Lord Thomas! I bet they deliver


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Ok…

so first, boot pic.

Then a little backstory. I spent a year on Alien 1.0s (only), and they were great, but I broke them numerous times. Then I spent 2 years on Fischer Travers Carbons, and once dialed in, they were great too, but they didn't ski any better than the Alien, and toured worse. I then experimented with the Hoji and F1 LT the last 2 seasons before landing on this La Sportiva setup.

FWIW, I run a very different setup between boots. The bigger boot (1500g) has way more forward lean (17deg + 10mm spoiler vs 14deg + 6mm spoiler), and I like 2-5mm binding delta with them. The big boot's zeppa is nearly flat -- more like an alpine race boot (I also ski in Dobermans). This particular boot, as setup, is probably like an 8 flex Full Tilt give or take.

Conversely, I run the light buddies much more upright in the cuff for two reasons... firstly there is noticably more heel lift in the boot itself so I like to run 0-2mm of delta to generally keep everthing with ME inline onsnow. And secondly, while the cuff is much stiffer than a grilamid/pebax upper, they are still quite soft, and all the flex is in the lower, so essentially, I ski flexed into the boot - my stance is the same, I am just 1/2 way into the boots flex pattern. This really helps "preload" the boot and gives more control overall. The light boots are also much more form fitting and anatomical, so the fit itself is much more similar to my Dobermans than my bigger boot is -- which really helps.

I get some people don't notice low friction ROM of the little boots, but it makes a big difference for me, as I have limited time to ski each day, and try to keep my heart rate near threshold while touring as that is how I ride MTBs in the summer too.

But the thing is, I really only ski the little boots when the snow is CONSISTENT. Doesn't need to be blower, but not pockets of windblown, breakable crust, sun-effected, etc. When the snow is NOT consistent, its kinda hard to maintain my stance, I get tossed fore/aft alot, and the boot really starts to struggle for my large bones and meathead-i-tude... and the bigger boot powers through more like a normal alpine boot.

So... conclusion...
I love the little boots for the times they are good at what they do, but thats about 50% of the time I go out... So I am just sucking up owning 2 boots until Benneke can talk me into PG Mountains... haha.

but, at least for me, the little boot pairs super well with my c132 and some 85-88mm skinny sticks I am messing around with… and the big boot will pair perfectly to the c113 bc daily driver.

and yes… owning 2 nice touring boots is ridiculous, but what the hell. Life’s short.

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

190's for my chubby little legs. You're welcome to give them a try as well. Could bring them down to Wenatchee or Mission sometime. I'm going to be using the shit out of them as soon as they get here.

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Put me on the demo list too T! You've got some great options for getting them out this year.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Yes, thanks for re-posting that, sorry to have missed it before.
2075g is old and needs to be edited on the site.
the verified weight for my pair here is ~1950g +/-
This skis is not changed at all for production.

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Wow. Impressive. Thanks for the reply!

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Originally Posted by John_B

Put me on the demo list too T! You've got some great options for getting them out this year.

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John, we should talk soon about getting out. We also have some very similar demo options for your wife too. I think somebody should get me a long track for the heel since I don't think everyone's boots are going to fit in the 301-316 bsl window. Down the road I might also put insert in for KP's too.

Don’t feel bad Marshall, I’ve got four pairs of touring boots, all between 1000 and 1400 grams…..


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Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

and yes… owning 2 nice touring boots is ridiculous, but what the hell. Life’s short.

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You're right, owning 2 pairs of touring boots when you ski almost every day is ridiculous.. its simply not enough! I own 2 pairs of original Skorpius (backup pair since they changed the design), Hawx XTD, and PG Mountains and have my eye on a 5th pair. I think I'm right in the sweet spot :)

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

I'll have alpinists on them.

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Ah, missed this earlier. You decided!

I'm doing Trab toes with Haute Route heels and a freeride spacer. If the retention of the 10 din heel doesn't cut it, then change to SSL2.0 heel.

Gah, the waiting!

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Gah, the waiting!

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Is the hardest part….



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I’ve got a backup pair of skorps too, benneke!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Ah, missed this earlier. You decided!

I'm doing Trab toes with Haute Route heels and a freeride spacer. If the retention of the 10 din heel doesn't cut it, then change to SSL2.0 heel.

Gah, the waiting!

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Yep. For several reasons I decided to go with alpenists. They should be here in a couple of days. Also new contour mohair skins waiting to get the knife as soon as the skis arrive.

In the meantime I check this thread every 4 minutes waiting..............waiting..............waiting for Marshal to ring the bell and let us know that they are on the way. Fucking can't wait much more!

It’s getting close homie! Can’t wait to ring that bell :yourock:

Widest/Longest skins known to man just showed up.
Attachment 441543


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Amassing the bits for mine, too.

.Attachment 441555

What skin tip loops are those


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