Do you get much heel lockup in flat mode? Not much of a gap
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Do you get much heel lockup in flat mode? Not much of a gap
I guess I'll find out soon enough. I just mounted them. It looks like about 2mm of space.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
... Thom
It's about the same on the Plum Oazos I mounted earlier this month. I was concerned about the flat mode as it's not considered legit my Plum but so far I haven't had issues with the heel catching. The rotation is so stiff I doubt I'll ever get the heel piece spinning on its own either.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Hopefully it's the same for the Helios, it's not the end of the world to live without a true flat mode but it sure is nice for long slogs.
Glad to know I'm not the only one who has dropped a binding mounting screw and then proceeded to fumble around looking for it!
For anyone who really wants to get into mounting these bindings, this jig is so far beyond anything I've ever used previously:
https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...5-mounting-jig
I also recently mounted up one of these for the first time:
https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...r-core-binding
A few especially nice features:No idea though whether it has any sort of noticeable effect when skiing.
- Clicks into the heel unit very easily.
- Much wider than a more simple "stomp" pad.
- Integrates a laterally gliding feature for reduced friction in a lateral release.
- Adjustable height.
I've been using the spacer for years, both with an ATK freeraider and with a speed radical. For those who doubt its use, insert a boot into a speed radical (or similar binding where the boot just hangs on the rear pins, ie. no brake pad) and move the boot laterally while holding the ski flat to your workbench. The amount of lateral play is significant. Now imagine what that does to your skiing.
So the spacer is in firm contact with your boot sole such that the friction limits lateral movement on the rear binding pins to a noticeable extent while skiing?Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth operator
Can the freeride spacer be installed after the binding is mounted or does it need to go on during the original mount (without having to unscrew anything)?
yeah, I thought spacers/stomp pads were for vertical support, not to add some weird lateral friction to the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by kootenayskier
Ya mean as in ... stomp? That was my impression as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by TG
I can't envision inhibiting lateral release being part of the pad's design.
... Thom
The former.Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
I think the ATK R12 2.0 that is on my VTA88 is what started Gimpy on this quest, and the above photos are super helpful as a resource, so here are some of the R12. It is a beautiful piece of engineering, and the brake works so smoothly that I have left it on (haven't skied with brakes in 10 years). I can't speak to the hard snow performance since I don't ski at resorts, but they are my favorite of any binding I've used for touring. (This group includes original TLT, Comforts, Vertical, Radical, Ion, MTN, and ATK skimo bindings.) The MTN/Backland is 2nd place.
WRT the riser heights, the photos will tell the story. 5 is 2 more than I need, but it's not a problem. I require a flat mode, and can't understand why a mid-weight binding would not have one. (I'm looking at you, Helio 180.) The riser over pin mode is nice when the skin track is consistently up from the transition point, and saves having to spin the heel. The magnetic flippy risers are a nice touch.
All of that said, I'd probably buy the Helio 200 or ATK equivalent instead. The R12 features are super nice, but personally I'd rather save the weight. The deal I got for this setup was crazy though. Also, FYI, the R12 heel screw pattern appears to be unique. (If it weren't I'd trade these for the H200 that Gimpy will prob get.)
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Does anybody know if it would work to run the Helio 200/Haute Route without the heel adjustment plate? I'm a weenie who's overly sensitive to binding ramp, and I'd be interested in trying that. Obviously you'd be committed to a certain BSL and lose some riser height, as well as having a smaller mount pattern in the ski, but I think I can live with all of that.
Shouldn't be an issue, as the Helio 145 can be mounted to the Helio heel plate. Both H200 and H145 have the same four hole base.
Sure. It's just the separate solid plate style of heel adjuster, so you could mount the heel piece directly to the ski instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by HAB
However, add someone who has a set of race bindings on some skis, I'd recommend using the plate. Having the ability to change BSL is very nice, even just for resale. You can even out the ramp with a plastic shim under the toe instead. If you're really that concerned about weight you'll get a U spring race binding anyway.
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And ... the ramp angle with the plate is still quite low. Not flat (which you might be after) but low.
... Thom
Thanks guys. Toe shims are obviously a good option too – already running them on a bunch of my skis. The idea here would be to go as weight weenie as I can while staying away from a U spring heel, and getting a nearly flat binding, but those few grams probably aren't worth it. Just food for thought.
I don't think they are up here yet and the pro i know doesn't have any info on if/when they will be coming and he would
Any suggestions for mounting these beauties on a ski that has a metal sollyfit plate? I have to think even epoxy will just crack at some point (plastic glued to metal) yeah? There's a Loctite "plastic bonder" ...Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth operator
Did you mount the ones paired with speed rads right into the ski?
Me = “knowledge worker” so be gentle if this is obvious [emoji83].
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Drill and tap hole in the Sollyfit plate and bolt it to that?
If the plate wasn’t already on the ski that’s perfect. Dang.Quote:
Originally Posted by HAB
You might be able to do it anyway with a machine screw. I'll measure my plates but I think the wall is 3mm thick? I have bottoming taps if you're afraid of hitting the skiQuote:
Originally Posted by Andyski
Take the plate off the ski, do the thing, then reinstall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyski
As a fellow “knowledge worker” (read over consumer of porn) I’d suggest you either fully remove the plate and remount the heels if you really want that spacer - as long as it wouldn’t leave your heel resting on your boot (there’s still a gap).
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Just picked up some trofeo pluses (helios 180s). Getting ready to mount them i noticed that the heal track/baseplate are shown in opposite directions on the BD site and and the ATK one.
It looks like the binding is designed with a slightly offset detent for the sideways position so if you mount it the atk way you get less heel binding in flat mode. And at least the outdoor gear lab review mounted it the BD way and complained about binding.
Wow, good eye -- I never noticed that!Quote:
Originally Posted by hillmap
So playing around with a pair, yes, you're correct: mounted the way on the ATK website, the contours of the binding allow for more clearance of the boot heel in flat mode.
Whereas on the BD and Outdoor Gear Lab websites, the contours will jam into the boot heel more readily.
(Or you can also increase the gap a bit to more like 5mm -- given the decent length of the heel pins, and the generally robust design, you can probably get away with it if you aren't stomping monster jumps, etc.)
For the pics on the BD and Outdoor Gear Lab websites, the plate needs to rotated 180 degrees, and then the binding needs to be spun 180 degrees on its pedestal.
(Or for an already mounted setup, unbold the binding from the plate, rebolt the binding at 180 degrees to its original position, then spin the binding 180 degrees on its pedestal.)
And amusing as always to see the Outgear Gear Lab ratings for weight (which already has its own inherently quantified rating in the form of a standardized systems of weights and measures), downhill performance (where if anything it's more secure than any of the other relatively traditional heel pin bindings), ease of use (what is reflected in the missing three points?), and touring performance (6 out of 10, really?).
Also just noticed that the Outdoor Gear Lab review claimed the binding has only one heel elevator position.
Granted, the higher position gets you only another half cm, but still, the binding is deliberately designed (and advertised as such) with two heel elevator positions (as opposed to other race-style bindings, where spinning the binding 180 degrees on its pedestal and flipping back the heel elevator all the way is explicitly discouraged), but still, would help the credibility of a product review to at least understand all the features of the product being reviewed (especially a product with so few features).
Anyone have a pic of the BD Helio 180 mounted with a ATK Freeride Spacer?
Would be interested in seeing that as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by teamdirt
Just unboxed a pair of Helio 180s about an hour ago; look nice.
Mounting template?
Checkout ATKs website for the Trofeo Plus, they have some great templates and mounting instructions
ATK's Haute Route template was really close. I found myself having to move some holes a half mm or so. A few test mounts are in order.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister
Also, you may not find every template on their site. Many of their bindings are mashups. For example, the RT 10 I mounted was very close to a Crest heel and the Haute Route toe (and likely other toes as well).
My memory is a bit fuzzy, and I may be mixing up the specifics, but you get the picture. Don't give up if you don't see what you need. Indeed - the Trofeo Plus is the Helio 180.
... Thom
That spacer is designed to click into the Core binding.Quote:
Originally Posted by teamdirt
Maybe you could jerry rig a mounting system somehow, but the height might still be too thick for the 180.
What holds the climber flap in place on helio 180’s/trofeos?
Do they have a tiny magnet like the 200’s, or just a detent or friction fit?
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https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...Binding-ThreadQuote:
Originally Posted by riff
The latter.Quote:
Originally Posted by riff
Even though the thread I linked says otherwise my digging showed no mention of the magnetic flaps.
The "high riser" fits semi-snugly between the pins in regular climbing mode, so kind of a friction fit. It's easy enough in my experience to lift up with a ski pole, but mine have stayed in place so far. There's nothing holding the flap down in the 180º "high riser" mode, but I have not used that yet so can't speak to how it stays put.Quote:
Originally Posted by riff
I've not generally had a problem with any of the race-style flaps moving out of place on me though on the Trabs, Plums, ATKs, etc
I know they make a couple different models of spacer, but I thought the "universal" one could be incorporated into most bindings? Maybe it's just too thick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan S.
Interested in this idea also if it turns out you can fit one.
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Thanks guys, I’m curious because after a couple of seasons, 2/3 of my MTN bindings have loose flippy lifters that move when i walk- I’m interested in going to the helios, but i was hoping something besides friction was holding that lifter.
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^ as in they expose the pins and you step into ski mode while touring? that sounds annoying af, though I haven’t had that with any heel flaps I’ve used. can you tighten the screw?
if you REALLY don’t want that to happen get Plums, the fuckers are nearly impossible to lift up without your glove (friction based). The Trabs have some sort of spring loading snapping mechanism which is the most well-engineered feeling. My ATKs are the 2nd nicest to use after the trabs... they have loosened a bit after 120k’+ or so, but that’s mostly in the screw, the friction mechanism is fine, and they aren’t so welded in there that I need to bend down and use my hand, which is nice imo (I like to lift the flaps with my pole handle, step in, then fiddle with my boots and rip skins etc). I do worry a little because it seems like re-tightening the screw will be next to impossible but so far so good...
also see the official ATK thread for pics of the heel riser modes, for those who have asked