True. it's downright impressive. Their ability to create products which self destruct on creative ways is very inspiring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunder
Printable View
True. it's downright impressive. Their ability to create products which self destruct on creative ways is very inspiring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunder
I’m on the same pair of Kingpins I’ve had since the first season they came out, and haven’t had any issues. Equipment breaks. How many broken Pivots, or Jesters, or STH’s have you seen? How many broken Dynafits have you seen? We are starting to see broken Shifts now too. Everything breaks with enough use/abuse. If you want as close to an indestructible binding as you can find, go find a DH race binding. But do us all a favor in the mean time and give the Kingpin hate a rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel
They are pretty dam good bindings for a lot of people. A few pairs broke, Marker did the right thing and replaced them. They had a bad batch of pins, what did they do? Replaced them. That was much better customer service then the shit Atomic/Solomon/Armada is giving with the Shifts. Anyone with issues with their Shifts is either being ignored, told they set theirs up wrong, or were told to turn their din up. That’s shitty customer service there for you.
I hope this new Marker binding is as revolutionary as it might be. If it’s durable and fairly easy to use, I bet they will sell like hot cakes too. If I wasn’t a CAST fan boy, I’d get a pair of the new Marker bindings to check them out. Definitely could solve a few issues or simplify some things, and make my life a bit easier.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I usually agree to disagree but you're wrong. kingpin was a disaster, with multiple failure modes which were each catastrophic as opposed to inconvenient. Many people expedienced them at frighteningly frequent intervals, myself included.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
Dynafits also broke, yes, but usually the failure mode is non-catastrophic like the shity rad 1. OG tlt you could break the tower given enough use but they weren't doing it out of the box.
Pivots? what do people break? the half moon? Isn't this also non catastrophic? I suppose people also tear the heel piece out of some kinds of skis. Did i miss a failure mode with pivots?
I know we've had this discussion a few times. I stand by my opinion that your lack of a bad experience on the kingpins does not make them a good, reliable binding. Are you somewhat trying to reassure yourself or are you genuinely of the opinion that people are blowing it out of proportion?
Some of the newer pivots have been have a catastrophic failure of the piece of metal that the heel is actually connected to, it cracks right where the metal is bent and the arms are rivited in, and if the cracks go un noticed a large impact separates the heel from the brake assembly.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel
That said I’ve only witnessed it on bindings that have been put through hell, and if you look there’s usually an indicator that they’re about to fail. Replaced a few base plates last year for various people when I worked at the ski shop.
That said, I applaud the marker hate, if no one makes a fuss they won’t changes they’re buisiness model of making shitty products and giving them to the public to test. Also as far as toe recall replacements, people were waiting for months on end to get their toes, we had some in the shop that didn’t see new toes until April and were brought in November.
Marker had a bad production run of the kingpins, they acknowledged it and recalled them. I have not seen a single pair of the current ones break and I am skiing with the burliest guys in the sport. Also, Dynafit do fail catastrophically. On 2 separate occasions I've had the heel pieces explode mid-turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel
At the end of the day all bindings can brake and given enough use all will. I can't think of a single binding that I have not broken over the last 20 years, even the holly grail of reliability the old metal 916's and Look pivots all had their failure modes as well and I have boxes of broken ones in the garage. For the most part the new crop of burlier touring bindings are holding up really well, especially compared to the shit we used to have to tour on, nano's day wreckers, etc. Hell I got photos of guys sending some massive hucks on touring gear that we would have only dreamed of doing on alpine race bindings 10 years ago. If you want a near bullet proof binding then get an old school metal 916 or a look pivot. If you are ski touring its pretty tough to beat the new kingpins for hucking and G3's for big tours. I would however avoid the plastic Fritschi crap at all costs, and every frame binding like a plague... those Guardians broke a frightening amount of the time and the Dukes always got pretty damn sloppy after a season of touring and the heel springs seemed to fail after a few seasons.
Did you have your Shifts tested by a shop so you/they had proof something was wrong with your pair? If so - how did Salmon justify not getting you a warranty replacement?Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
The story is buried in the Shift thread somewhere. Cliff note version is mine were tested, someone at the shop thought something was wrong with a spring. Atomic/Solomon said nothing was wrong. I got them back and sold them to a cousin who knew the whole story and was ok with it. He loves them, they are fine for him. He is 8in shorter then me and 70lbs lighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive
My bsl was set correctly. The DIN was set at 11, as all my Pivots are. I’d walk out at very inopportune times, and the answer I was given was to maybe turn the din up. If multiple other bindings, including Kingpin 13s, keep me in just fine at 11, why should I turn the din up to make the Shift work? I can tour with CAST 1.0 just fine and won’t have to worry about prereleases when they shouldn’t. When Shifts just came out, Cody Townsen did a video on mounting and setting Shifts up. He cranks his Shifts to 13. I don’t ski like him, I’m not that good, so I’m not cranking my din to 13 to ski the cool new binding.
Biggest thing is know thy self, Shifts done work for me, so I stick with what does. G3 Ion 12s, Kingpin 13s and P18s work just fine
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I’ll admit, I’m intrigued. My shift issue was snow contamination after release. There are times in the Wasatch where it’s just too stupid deep to get every fucking snowflake out of the boot binding interface.
For me it’s a quest to bring one ski on an airplane or long trip. Well, a pair of skis...not a mono ski.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Oh man, a touring monoski would be GENIUS. I don't know how I've never thought of that before.Quote:
Originally Posted by detrusor
*drinks eight beers*
*buys splitboard connectors on ebay*
*fires up sawzall*
:D
Shifts blow, stop drinking the coolade and start drinking the haterade, of course the amer sports athletes aren’t going to bad mouth the new product, I wouldn’t either if they were paying all my bills.
Something that will weigh more than Shifts while only offering the versatility of Tectons?
Versatility of Tectons? What are you referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
CAST 1.0 of you can find plates, or 2.0 if you need the newest thing. Have one less beer, eat one less cheeseburger, then ski down on a real binding.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Death before cutting back on beer and burgers pre- or apre-ski. I'm insulted at the very suggestion, good sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
FWIW, I’ve spent 30 days a season on the same pair of Vipecs for about 3 years straight without issue (2-8 decent sized cliffs per day... in Zak’s old stomping grounds since you’re a Baker guy). The plastic concern is FUD, imo. They work great and I trust them way more than the Kingpin when it comes to keeping me injury free. But if it works for you, no reason to change it up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunder
aint sure how many seasons you've been in the shopQuote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
but in my 23
MARKERS are the #1 fucked up, broke, recalled, didnt even have all the screws in the box to start with,
bindings
every season
and the kingpin was a fuckin joke
piss poor recall and custy service
fuck we still cant even git an alpinist jig outta them
I never said I worked in a shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by skifishbum
Mine work so I stick with them
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Probably a good idea because they are the exception.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
You sample N - 1 is far less than any shop employee has seen. But for real just talk to anyone shop — hell my local shop won’t even sell them because of all the hassles during their early production.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
My roommate worked in a shop for 6 years, I usually stop by the shop to hang with friends a few times a week in the winter. Most of them are on Kingpins with no issues. We all chat about what gear we like and what works, as well has hate on the shit people try to sell. Shifts get a lot of hate. Kingpins haven’t been getting hate, even praise for how great they ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiLyft
Look in the lift/tram line at your local resort, beginning of last year we saw a bunch of Shifts, by the end of the year almost all were gone, except the Atomic athletes and a few stragglers who admitted they hadn’t skied much last winter. As I’ve said, Kingpins have worked really well for me, Shifts didn’t. I’ve got 75 to 100 days on them since they were released, with no issues. Shifts were scary, 15 days on them and I came out 8 times, most when I definitely shouldn’t of come out.
We are all allowed our own opinion. I like Kingpins, you don’t. That’s alright. I hope Marker hits a home run with these new bindings.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
with respect to your burly friends Gunder, I have in fact seen two sets of toes from the post-recall batch fail in exactly the same way i experienced on 3 toe pieces, all of which were from before the recall period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunder
They have never acknowledged the weakness in the heel rails either as it happens less frequently and so it just gets left as warranty.
About that too, my recall toes took 4 and a half months to show up. One warranty experience was great, the other also took months.
I don't expect stuff to last forever. I do expect it to last a couple seasons. The only other binding I've had that simply could not accomplish getting through a whole season without detonating was rad1 and at least you mostly only lost your risers.
The Kingpin heel track I’m willing to chalk up to an unfortunate but acceptable causality of chasing weight. The toe pins, not so much. Pretty much all the heel track issues I saw were from either bigger aggressive skiers who spent a fair amount of time in the resort; or some combination. Honestly, good on Marker for warranting those bingings. The toes, again, were a real problem.
Didn’t stop me from getting some Alpinists and those bindings have been great. I might even consider some KingPin V-Weaks since it uses an Alpinist toe.
The new binding for me is out (for now) because it uses a Jester heel which sucks. Just use the Excell heel. Way better.
Oh shit that’s gunna be one heavy mferQuote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Yeah, wonder why they aren't using something more like the Kingpin heel. Might even be able to ditch the sliding mechanism and cut some more weight there, if the toe piece can handle moving the pins forward for walk mode like the Shift one does.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiLyft
As a counter argument, around here there have been very few issues with the Shifts from different shop guys I know including arguably the largest local/online dealer Monod's (I ride with the buyer and he said this summer they had no issues and local rippers were stoked).Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
I was also very happy with my second year Kingpins, I thought they were bomber and worked fine.
Don't blame you for getting rid of them if they don't work for you, but if they tested out for Salomon/Atomic warranty Dept.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
and they said they were fine and your cousin bought them from you w/ zero issues, don't you think there could be a slight chance of user error here?
I have 2 pair of Shifts. One Atomic, one Salomon. Haven't had any issues but I got both pairs mounted really late in the season and have only been used inbounds 1 day each. Mine are set @ 13 but all my other bindings are too. We'll see this year.
I'm hoping this Marker binding works great!
Right. I’m not sure how the shop having no evidence something wrong, the warranty dept. not finding anything, and the cousin having no issues = the entire product is garbage/there's an Amer orchestrated conspiracy to keep it quiet.
Regarding Kingpins failures, don't forget that in addition to the version with pins that were prone to breaking, there was the version that had pins that would loosen and even fall out.
Don't get me wrong. I love my Tectons.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
Pointing out that the Marker binding looks heavier than Shifts while only working with tech toes (like Tecton) and the attendant limitations on release.
Hi, this bindung looks for sure interesting.
maybe Marker is following this inventor / start-up / new prototype (just for the front toe construction): https://bavarianalpinemanifest.com/produkt/
(
Well its less "skiing" but some of the frame bindings will take a mountaineering boot so they're a decent option for ice climb/ AK approaches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunder
And wasn't there two different recalls for Kingpin toe pins?
I mean all touring bindings minus the frame ones need tech toes :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Summit
Shift will work as an alpine binding with alpine boots that have not tech fittings.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalNomad
I think you're talking about the new M-werx binding. They also have a Shift like binding coming out as well. Picture of M-Werx in post#32. It's a different toe than the bindings in post #1Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
At that point though your just riding a more complicated alpine binding then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
True. But for people who want a ski that can tour, but also want to ski alpine boots on inbounds days it's at least an option.
*waves*Quote:
Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive
Have a pair on my Protests. I ski them a bunch inbounds or occasionally off a sled (generally in alpine boots) and also do some shorter sidecountry sorts of tours on them. For that kind of use case they're pretty great.
The setup of the height of the AFD on the shift is such a PITA that it’s a hassle to switch between boots though.
Its at most an inconvenience in the scale of the complexity of these bindings. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Do I get annoyed when I adjust the toe height too? Absolutely. Is it the most original binding concept actually brought to market and mass production? Absolutely and its not even really close until this Marker binding comes out.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo
There are compromises in every design, its just how it goes. I will gladly accept the trade offs they provided. Once I got the forward pressure issue figured out, I was super happy with the Shift. If Marker can nail the design of this and make the Salomon sweat a bit and make some improvements, awesome. But I bet there will be a wart or two to live with on this binding as well. We just don't know what they are yet.
Also, I get very frustrated with people bashing the shift because it doesn't ski like a Pivot or tour like a 300g touring binding so sorry for the direct hit on you stuntman. You have a good point, I just needed to say that.
Seems intriguing...
Same here. Alpinists have been fineQuote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
Look at that monsterAttachment 299959
Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app
One thing is for sure, it looks heavy.