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My DSP sport is brand new (bought in 2019 as a backup and used twice). I can't push the slide from send to search when I'm holding it in my hand. Super solid in that scenario.
However, as soon as I put the DSP in the harness and put the harness on I can slide it with minimal pressure. I don't even have to rub it around like ISBD did. Seems the harness puts just enough pressure on the lock button to unlock the slide. Scary stuff.
That seems to describe what is happening here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedfreak
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGnq_GFjoeD/
Although be sure to listen to all his commentary at the end after the demonstration, since he adds that he had another DSP beacon -- with the same switch design -- which did not display this behavior.
This is a pretty simple and illuminating video.... depress the locking mech by less than a human hair and it switches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBog...nel=MikeBourcy
Interesting but there is no indication that there was no pressure on the button when the height gauge was zeroed. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem, but I am saying that the video doesn't show rigorous inquiry to my mindQuote:
Originally Posted by doebedoe
Yeah showing that you can slide the beacon under first would be useful. They have a decent setup to make the measurement, but there's always going to be an actuation distance.
0.005" from the neutral position is one thing, the same distance to clear the latch from a partially depressed button is different.
that was my impression too
Agreed. And furthermore, seems like the video is showing the exact opposite: he attempts to move the switch, which doesn't move, but the beacon doesn't move either.Quote:
Originally Posted by abraham
Just a guess ... that the beacon was anchored to the table with double sided tape?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan S.
... Thom
I doubt someone would go to that level of effort without starting at a baseline of 0 pressure exerted on the switch. Unless there is an ulterior motive to "prove" it's a problem, but who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by abraham
Finally got my hands on my ex wife's DSP Sport. It takes damn little pressure to move the switch!
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Edit to add: I do agree that it would have been good to mention, and better yet demonstrate, that baseline was with 0 pressure exerted on the switch.
i’m not sure if this has been shared yet.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGk2CDRn...=1g65qrgmws0v2
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CGk2g_B...on_share_sheet
another good video from Ian McIntosh
i thot it was pretty obvious buddy started with the guage at zero & the switch slid with only .005 pressure on the lock button
but I'm Canadian and we are oblivious to the conspiracy theories flying around their heads like the green bats in a Hunter S Thompson essay
Well, he could have started zero at any pressure point prior to the measurement. The instrument is just measuring distance, not applied pressure. But someone this detail oriented with access to that type of instrument is probably aware of the importance of starting at zero pressure on the switch (unless knowingly fudging on purpose for some reason).Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Buddy said at the beginning he had the guage zero'd and then he moved the guage .005
but you are probably right the BD rep stole his girlfriend
It would have been better to use both the height gauge and a dial indicator since the height gauge was the tool actually moving the switch down. Again all signs point to this being a problem, but the experiment as it was shown was not rigorous. If I still had mine I would do a test, but BD warrantied mine of that vintage last year and replaced them with the new versions.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PinGrin
I'm not saying they are fudging on purpose. But I could see playing with the gauge and the button, finding this point, then recording how little actuation it takes while missing the first bit of travel. And of course 5 mil with no force is very different from 5 mil with 20 lbs required.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PinGrin
I played with mine last night and there seems to be a two step feel to the lock button. I can feel a little catch, then it takes almost effort to get the lock disengaged. It felt like it was there 80-90% of the time. I haven't seen any issues with my beacon in 200+ days of use but it is concerning. I'm gonna play with it more, watch these threads, and decide what to do about a new beacon.
None of that would have demonstrated pressure before the distance measurement, unless I am missing something. But I agree they should have somehow demonstrated zero pressure on the switch prior to measuring.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmaio
If they recorded video of the setup could zero the dial indicator, then setup the height gauge and zero wherever they want. I really think they are measuring the wrong value here.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PinGrin
I was very surprised how little pressure was required to move the switch once I got to actually handle the beacon. That was enough to tell my ex not to use it except for practice. I understand others may view it as acceptable to use and that's their call. My older version with the gray switch definitely requires more force on the switch to move the slider.Quote:
Originally Posted by abraham
I don't disagree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmaio
my .02¢ is that everyone with the old style switch oughta get a new unit, whether that is a full replacement or a discount on a new one
I’m happy with the new style. I trust it.
I'm starting to lean towards that as I marinate on it today.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PinGrin
How decide about getting a credit (and having that as a cost to bd/pieps) or keeping it for practice.
I emailed to see if would be possible to have them return the beacon after inspecting, but I would be doubtful if that's an option. Where we finally came down was if they won't return the beacon after inspection (which I would understand) going to just keep it for a practice beacon and look at available options for a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by abraham
Edit to add response from BD:
Users with Beacons purchased over two years ago are eligible to buy-up to another beacon model at the below rates:
Pieps Powder BT: $100.00 USD
Pieps Micro BT or Micro Sensor: $125.00 USD
Pieps Pro BT: $150.00 USD
Should you choose to send your beacon in and upgrade we will not be returning the DSP.
Regards,
Black Diamond Service Center
That is good to know. We aren't necessarily ruling out the new style even if keeping the old beacon for practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by ~mikey b
That doesn't feel very generous. 2 years is not a long time. I don't feel like BD is doing right by their customers with that pricingQuote:
Originally Posted by 3PinGrin
two years was standard warranty
Mine is out of warranty. But IMO, warranty length should not apply with a product defect, which is what this is; if it wasn't, why are they replacing them for free for those who purchased less than 2 years ago? Not psyched at all to have to spend $100 to replace a product that was defective from the beginning.
FWIW, I don't even use mine very often, been less than 10 days a year, some years less than 5. My switch isn't worn at all, it's really solid and the bar doesn't move up or down when it is in the locked position, even with a lot of force. HOWEVER, when the beacon is in the harness (regardless of screen out or in), very moderate pressure to the center of the beacon harness "breaks" the lock (ie pushes the button down enough), and the slider bar easily changes position without warning. That's pretty much the definition of a product defect and not a warranty issue. I want to not give them another cent of my money for how they are handling this, but it looks like I am going to be compelled to give them $100 so that I have a beacon that isn't defective.
maybe you need a good lawyer
I can't afford one.
I think $150 to replace my recently out of extended warranty DSP Pro (bought 5.5 years ago) is pretty reasonable. My beacon is old enough that is nearing replacement time anyway. If I had 2.0000001 year old beacon and they wanted me to pay I'd be pissed.
On the other hand, should any of the things be in use? Probably not. I just want to go skiing and not die in a avalanche.
Mammut Barryvox $228, free shipping.
https://varuste.net/en/p77029/mammut...nge_country=US
I saw that earlier today but wasn't familiar with the company and if shipping to U.S. would be a pita. Have you ordered from them before? Anyone else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper
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I haven’t ordered from them, but the website stated no charge shipping to the US. I’d rely on my credit card company to keep it all skookum. I’ve ordered a couple things from other euro companies and it’s always gone well. OTOH, domestic orders shipped USPS have been pretty fucked up lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PinGrin
Yeah, with covid who knows. That's a great price though, and by all accounts a really good choice for a new beacon.
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^ I went with the Barryvox when my DSP Sport got warrenteed (for a bad screen) and I like it a lot. It might be the current safest brand.
I'm thinking I will jump on that if ex agrees (her beacon/cash).
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BD seems to be completely inconsistent. Someone on FB had a 4 year old beacon, no extended warranty, and got offered a free replacement. Why isn't there a consistent response?
I wonder if there’s differentiation between places of purchase
ie paying full freight from an official dealer vs an eBay seller or an outlet resale
i bought from backcountry outlet (dept of goods) & am a little worried that it will be disregarded as invalid, despite backcountry being a proper reseller
the other thought about differentiation is being able to substantiate the purchase...not everyone keeps records [tho it’s easier now with online purchasing]. Maybe no proof of purchase results in less of a chance at replacement?
also, could be how strenuously the claim is stated when submitted...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Seems this could be the case. Also it's early days and maybe there's not a consistent policy yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by ::: :::
I first e-mailed dsp@pieps.com about my <2yo beacon, got a reply, but when I followed up they told me to file a claim with BD because I was in North America. So I filed a claim via BD's website, politely stated my reservations about the switch and inquired about the trade-up policy, and I haven't heard sh!t back. Seems some people are already getting return labels. Maybe it's worth it to go in guns blazing?? Shouldn't be necessary since Pieps unequivocally stated that upgrades would be offered.
Yep, i’m waiting too. Be patient. I’m sure they’ve got quite a few requests to deal with. I’ll follow up if it becomes a week, but a few days seems reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wawawa
i do also wonder what their re-design/new product cycle is...not sure I want a replacement of current tech if it gets redesigned soon or already has been & just hasn’t been released