Emergency landing

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Originally Posted by The AD

There's also a Kevlar band that is supposed to contain a fan blade that breaks free.

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I thought a lot of those sandwiches were Aramid not aluminum?

The CFM56 is on most 737s and airbuses. It's not even remotely new technology, and is considered to be one of the most successful engines built.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Listen to the ATC recording. She is so unbelievably calm and professional as she communicates and describes the situation that you'd think she was remarking on the lack of turbulence. Bad ass! Former USN F-18 pilot. She was probably just happy nobody was shooting at her. I'll try to find the link to the recording.

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I'm guessing that dealing with an engine failure and with decompression is something pilots practice on a simulator, a lot. I would also guess that communicating calmly--so the ATC can understand the pilot--is something that is practiced. Generally speaking, performing well under difficult dangerous conditions is due to exceptional training, not exceptional human beings.

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Originally Posted by old goat

I'm guessing that dealing with an engine failure and with decompression is something pilots practice on a simulator, a lot. I would also guess that communicating calmly--so the ATC can understand the pilot--is something that is practiced. Generally speaking, performing well under difficult dangerous conditions is due to exceptional training, not exceptional human beings.

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I'd go with both

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

That last item is an amazing fact. You wonder if 9/11 and its aftermath is the prime reason?

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Negative.

The biggest factor in aviation safety is crew training. Most accidents are human error.

The second is technology. All the cool gizmos like GPS, TCAS, EGPWS, predictive wind shear, etc., have taken a lot of the guesswork out of flying.

The third is probably the price of fuel. Expensive gas means old airframes are retired sooner.

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

The CFM56 is on most 737s and airbuses. It's not even remotely new technology, and is considered to be one of the most successful engines built.

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Yeah, and the metallurgy that makes high-bypass turbofan engines possible is remarkable unto itself. Out of 30K engines built there appear to be less than a handful of inflight fan blade failures. Unfortunately, in one incident the pilots shut down the good engine instead of the bad engine on approach which resulted in a crash.


Also, unrelated, older low-bypass turbofan engines look kind of ridiculous now:

https://i0.wp.com/www.wingsnews.org/...Flight-243.jpg

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Originally Posted by old goat

I'm guessing that dealing with an engine failure and with decompression is something pilots practice on a simulator, a lot.

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Engine failures yes, but not really this type of event. The "high dive" is not a difficult maneuver, and crews seldom mess it up. It's also not a very common occurrence.

A typical sim session has engine failures/fires (generally on takeoff or missed approach, because those would be the most critical), single engine approaches (landings and go-arounds), rejected takeoffs, evacuations, electrical and hydraulic failures, and various types of precision and non-precision approaches.

They throw in a la carte items like high dive (and myriad other stuff) sporadically over the course of the recurrent training cycle.

Absolutely both are practiced, regularly.

Flight simulators are used to teach systems (hydraulics, electricals, flight controls, computers, etc), practice system failures, and then throw just about every emergency possibly at a crew to give them a chance to establish some familiarity. Everybody thinks sims are fun times, they're not, basically torture boxes to have everything thrown at you.

Very professional and calm handling by controllers and pilots alike. Can't imagine how it was for the Flight Attendants.

The event happened very high, so the pax was most likely incapacitated very quickly. Sticking your head out the window at 34k tends to be hazardous to one's health, between the lack of oxygen, frigid temperatures and wind blast. Wow what a way to go, it was clearly her time.

Keep your seat belts on, folks.

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

The CFM56 is on most 737s and airbuses. It's not even remotely new technology, and is considered to be one of the most successful engines built.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

If the engine was a CFM56 as Summit suggests, that is an engine design that was developed in the 1970s and entered service in 1982 (with modifications since then).

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Thanks guys for the correction and education. Easier than google.

^^^ I have literally thousands of hours of flying airplanes with CFM56 engines, with only one minor engine related incident. It's a proven workhorse.

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Originally Posted by abraham

I thought a lot of those sandwiches were Aramid not aluminum?

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Yeah, I doubt it's aluminum. I'm not positive what the material is, but it certainly doesn't look like metal.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Yeah, and the metallurgy that makes high-bypass turbofan engines possible is remarkable unto itself.

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I work with aircraft engine components. The engineering, design, and manufacturing processes that goes into these parts is incredibly impressive.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Unfortunately, in one incident the pilots shut down the good engine instead of the bad engine on approach which resulted in a crash.

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Are you talking about British Midlands?

They shut down the wrong engine because the bad engine surged so strongly that they thought the other side had lost power. A classic case of not believing the indications in favor of your gut.

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Originally Posted by steepconcrete

We were on Ocean Beach in San Diego when a flight lost its engine on takeoff directly above us at a pretty low altitude. It was right after takeoff prolly less than a minute. They looped back and landed safely. I'll never forget that sound.

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That's exactly where I live, right under the flight path. My 630am alarm clock as seen from bed:

Attachment 232691

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Originally Posted by pisteoff

^^^ I have literally thousands of hours of flying airplanes with CFM56 engines, with only one minor engine related incident. It's a proven workhorse.

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It's the Look Pivot of aircraft engines.

Was flying southwest the day before right next to the engine. Hmm.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by Jumper Bones

Absolutely both are practiced, regularly.

Flight simulators are used to teach systems (hydraulics, electricals, flight controls, computers, etc), practice system failures, and then throw just about every emergency possibly at a crew to give them a chance to establish some familiarity. Everybody thinks sims are fun times, they're not, basically torture boxes to have everything thrown at you.

Very professional and calm handling by controllers and pilots alike. Can't imagine how it was for the Flight Attendants.

The event happened very high, so the pax was most likely incapacitated very quickly. Sticking your head out the window at 34k tends to be hazardous to one's health, between the lack of oxygen, frigid temperatures and wind blast. Wow what a way to go, it was clearly her time.

Keep your seat belts on, folks.

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Yup. That's right! You spent a ton of time in the same flight sim as me if memory serves me correctly. Except our sim time was way more boring than doing rapid D drills or engine flameouts. Haha. You ever do any sim ride alongs with the pilots, though? I've done a few and like you said, they make every emergency so familiar that by the time things really DO hit the fan, it's practically rote and the pilot can remain cool as a cucumber. My sim time did have lots of emergencies, but it was more like APU/PTO fires that we had to "call in" the emergency. All ground stuff at the engineer panel. Raise the plane. Lower the plane. Raise it again. Lower it again. "Oh, boy. Another fire. Hooray." Yawn. Torture boxes is right. The quiet hum of all the computer fans would always tempt to lull me to sleep. Heck, it knocked out my aging instructor in the seat behind me on more than one occasion.

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Originally Posted by tBatt

Was flying southwest the day before right next to the engine. Hmm.

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Hmmmmm.... who gives a fuck? So were 150K or so other people of the 2.5 million who flew in the US yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

It's the Look Pivot of aircraft engines.

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That is one hell of an awesome analogy!

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Originally Posted by evdog

That's exactly where I live, right under the flight path. My 630am alarm clock as seen from bed:

Attachment 232691

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Nice spot. I kinda wanna move back down there. I'll hit you up for beer at pizza port next time we are in town.

Yeah we had our own LM sims to simulate rapid D, cargo fires, cargo jettison, manual gear extension and unlock, gear up landings, ditching etc. All via an interactive touchscreen representation of the cargo bay.

Once a year we had to do our 'Interior Safety Inspection' (basically a power-up that also turned on the APU if we were just on GPU power) in the cockpit sim. Sometimes that was fun, our only time to try our hands at flying the sim once we'd gotten our items out of the way, but one of the senior guys at Boeing became a total killjoy and decided that extra time was better served further hashing out the electrical bus and the DC cross tie and shit like that. 4 hour sim block of doing the IS over and over and over...

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Originally Posted by wyeaster

hopefully, she was out for all of it.

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half out, half in apparently

How fast would the treadmill have to be going to get sucked out a busted window? Would the window pane stay on the treadmill?

Captain T.J. Shults, US Naval Aviation USN Captain, First Woman Fighter (F-18) Pilot.
Could help explain her calmness.

do you guys expect a pilot is going to just go apeshit screaming and running around?
Is that what you do when something goes wrong?
What else is there to do, you communicate with the tower and fly the plane to the nearest safe landing.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

do you guys expect a pilot is going to just go apeshit screaming and running around?

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Attachment 232708

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

do you guys expect a pilot is going to just go apeshit screaming and running around?
Is that what you do when something goes wrong?
What else is there to do, you communicate with the tower and fly the plane to the nearest safe landing.

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You never had any of your fire crews give an excited or disjointed radio report when something went south?

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Originally Posted by Summit

You never had any of your fire crews give an excited or disjointed radio report when something went south?

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It’s a little different in the fire world. It’s much harder to sound calm and collected on the radio when you are out of O2 from running uphill or disoriented in a smoke filled warehouse and your face piece is sucked against your eyes, regardless of the level of training.

But yeah, she’s a bad ass, no argument.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

It’s a little different in the fire world. It’s much harder to sound calm and collected on the radio when you are out of O2 from running uphill or disoriented in a smoke filled warehouse and your face piece is sucked against your eyes, regardless of the level of training.

But yeah, she’s a bad ass, no argument.

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So what you're saying is the obstacles to clear, calm communication are drastically less significant in the fire world than this woman dealt with? That's my reading. You're one guy, or one guy and crew who are all willing participants, this woman had a few hundred lives and a craft worth tens of millions of dollars in her hands, there is hardly a comparison to be made at all.

Her plane rapidly decompressed as it lost an engine which may also have been on fire, chunks of aircraft, unknown additional damage... so she had to get control of the aircraft and get her oxygen mask on before she passed out, start her descent, etc. Time of useful consciousness is less than minute at that altitude without the mask. That might get even a practiced person breathing hard if not a tad excited.

Actually, she was probably thinking "well at least I don't have to land this thing on a carrier at night"

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Originally Posted by glademaster

So what you're saying is the obstacles to clear, calm communication are drastically less significant in the fire world than this woman dealt with? That's my reading. You're one guy, or one guy and crew who are all willing participants, this woman had a few hundred lives and a craft worth tens of millions of dollars in her hands, there is hardly a comparison to be made at all.

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What I'm saying is, her obstacle to clear and calm communication was her own stress, whereas on the fire-ground the obstacle is being able to actually breathe. There was no intent of an icy-veined dick measuring contest intended, despite your hopes. But, I believe that you're being intentionally obtuse.

zion I'm sure you aren't implying that FFs only give disjointed excited reports if they are physically exerting themselves. I've listened to plenty of emergency workers of all walks given excited reports due to their being worked up over a situation they trained for.

Of course he's not saying that.

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Originally Posted by Summit

You never had any of your fire crews give an excited or disjointed radio report when something went south?

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fair enough. I've seen the whole bell curve.

Only a little tangential, but I wish there were a reliable way to know who is who in advance of an emergent situation, because it can be hard to tell (or easy sometimes I guess) who is going to do well when things get critical.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

icy-veined dick measuring contest

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I think I've found my next screen name!

Fun fact: when it gets icy, my dick measures like negative 2 inches.
My dick sees more ice than most.
Attachment 232725

They just called the plane "crippled" on teh tv news....I thought that was on the list of retired PC words. Maybe we're bringing it back...that retarded faggot of a plane probably deserved some Lester Holt shit talk.

You don't really look all that happy about your ice helmet.

I just wanted to go inside and warm up and my mom and sister were insisting on an extensive barrage of portraits.

No hood ? I got 6 ice suits to work on at the shop, they zip up the front from belly button to neck they got hoods and they are red so faster eh?

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Originally Posted by Summit

Your chance of dying on a given US commercial flight is roughly 1 in 25 MILLION. Your chance of getting struck by lighting over the course of a year is 1 in 1 Million. Chances that a US skier (including inbounds skiers) will die in an avalanche this year is 2.5 in 1 Million. Your chance of dying in a car crash this year 1 in 10,000.

9.

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On the way home from Rogers pass one year so I told buddy I was gona text the gf to tell her we are out of aviy danger

he said "dude we are statistically way more likely to die driving home !"

Gonna rant a little here.

Who the fuck cares that the Captain was a female?

When will this gender metric no longer matter, no longer be of note? I've been raised with the belief that we're all equal in ability...

Meanwhile I've watched the USAF PA parade 'all-female flight crews!' like it's something of note, for years. At some point, simply being there and doing your job isn't an accomplishment. Especially if you really are equal like has been screamed for how long now?

It isn't the Captain pumping this up, of course, it's most everybody else.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Her plane rapidly decompressed as it lost an engine which may also have been on fire, chunks of aircraft, unknown additional damage... so she had to get control of the aircraft and get her oxygen mask on before she passed out, start her descent, etc. Time of useful consciousness is less than minute at that altitude without the mask.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

whereas on the fire-ground the obstacle is being able to actually breathe.

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Hmmm......

Why wouldn’t regular maintenance pick up a flaw or wear like this? This definitely freaks the shit out of me.