Why I like the base planer.
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Less than 10min work time.
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Why I like the base planer.
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Less than 10min work time.
I have used one for a few years to flatten my bases. I do it once a year or more if skiing one ski a lot and I make the time. Perhaps because I do it infrequently I find it takes a good amount of patience to get the whole ski right. Finished product looks home done relative to a high end machine, but I am pretty happy with how the stone does and then knocking it down with the metal bar (don't need a true bar with the kit) and waxing and brushing.
If you have the time and like to work on your skis saves the cost of bringing them in.
I have done 114 waist skis with it. Would think tool is useless for base flattening on real wide skis or a snowboard.
I have not used it to bring down edges. East coast problems
Nice work, Mofro. Is that a ptex welder or a glue gun that happens to get hot enough to melt ptex?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofro261
I’d really like to get hold of the file base flattener. But it sounds like it won’t be available any time in the near to mid future.
Bump
I’ve been using my skivisions base flattened and structuring tool more and more lately. I’ve been following the vid instructions/methods from the skivisions guy, focusing on using the stone and minimal use of the blade. One of my wife’s skis her base high. It took a LONG time to get them pretty flat using the stone. In the future, should I have use the metal blade instead? Does it remove more material per pass compared to the stone? Also, the stone has some ski wax on it now, even though I used base cleaner (and a scraper) a few times on the skis. Is there a good way to get the wax off without fouling the stone? The wax is on the edge that I would not “lap,” per instructions....
Super stoked on the tool!
Cheers
He has a YouTube video showing how to use a diamond "stone" to sharpen the stone. You only run it on two of the 4 surfaces. It makes a big difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
Use the hardened steel blade for base high. I also use it to clean up ptex patches.
... Thom
Email I got back from Mark at skivisions when I emailed him for tips on making a base flat more quickly with his tool:Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
Crybaby. Go to the hardware store and get a 10" double cut mill bastard file. Now you have to use it EXACTLY as I say. Take the butt of your palm of hand and put it on top of the file. Tang in right hand if right-handed. Push the file down the ski two handed feeling that file cut. Like crazy. Metal and plastic. Do 1 edge at a time and check EVERYTHING after every pass down the ski. Rotate edge to edge one pass down each side. DON'T GET CARRIED AWAY! You are making magic not a mess. Just do it. Let me know. Oh, that file can make a mess. Clean it all up with my tools.
That is some badass customer service right there. I don’t need more tuning tools but this thread is giving me the itch...
Thanks for the response.
The wax is on both the side of the stone that I would not sharpen with Emery paper and the side that I would/will sharpen.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
I really like the flattener and wanted to get the file tool, however, Mark from Ski Visions doesn't seem very confident that the file tool will be available any time soon.
I went ahead and made my own version. I just routered a groove in a piece of hickory I had (very hard wood so it will remain flat) and epoxied a couple magnets in place to hold the file.
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It works pretty well, especially dealing with edge-high issues. I run it over the entire base first and use the flattener tool after I'm sure the edges are level with the base. This should also save a lot of wear on the flat steel cutter.
Sweet idea!
Some concern about the magnets.
I'm no expert on the subject matter, but I've heard quite a number of discussions that the magnets will gather the swarf onto the file and it will be hard to remove - because the file itself will be magnetized.
Though it's hard to argue with a successful outcome. So, if it works long-term for you, it's probably a theoretical concern, not a real-life one. I just know I've heard it mentioned often when talking about magnets and tools. (And marble, music-playing machines.)
IMO, the "plane" carrier will make using the tool to really flatten the base way more consistent, and less likely to add bevel to the edges (unintentionally), or otherwise do unintended damage to the base. Plus it's going to be easier to use than just a plain file, IMO.
I like that, so obviuosly the slot you routered into the flat piece is a little shallower than the thickness of the file ?
so how much of the file sticks up above the bottom of the hickory ??
FKNA!Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxtar
http://www.slidewright.com/prodimages/Ski_Visions/fileflat-ski.jpg[/IMG]
With another in the back, you can use two hands like a carpenter's plane.
Yeah, I can see that happening. I really just stole the idea from the SkiVisions tool. Pretty sure that's what they used. I just use a file brush to swipe it and I havent had any issues with build-up yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorys
The file ends up about a 1/16" higher than the baseQuote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
http://www.slidewright.com/prodimages/Ski_Visions/fileflat-ski.jpg[/IMG]
With another in the back, you can use two hands like a carpenter's plane.[/QUOTE]Good idea,
Thanks
Does anyone actually notice a difference between the more linear structure provided by this tool and something like a crosshatch pattern from a stone grind?
I like to take care of my skis myself, and I've had bad experiences with careless stone grinds in the past.
Seems like this tool would let me take care of flattening and structuring myself and would give me a way more pro-looking finish on ptex repairs.
IMO, you can 'cross hatch/swirl' with the tool if you want to experiment. Just be careful about nailing the edges with the stones.Quote:
Originally Posted by singlesline
All of my ski bases have not been ground in over 15 years and their performance have not disappointed me. YMMV
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
I usually use sandpaper around a 1.5 or 2" thick-wall PVC pipe - but yeah, I'm too cheap to do regular base-grinds on my skis. I'd be pretty shocked if any mere mortal could tell a difference between that and a fancy base-grind, in a blind test. And since I don't think there's any real performance justification, why waste the time and money on a base grind, just to get a dubious performance benefit?
Just the time savings of not having to drive them to a shop and pick them up is a big bonus.
Yes, I'd be modestly unsurprised if Mikaela Shiffrin or Bode Miller or some top level skier on a race-course could tell, given the right limitations of variables. But for even high-level skiers (like people here), in wildly varying conditions - I don't think it's likely.
In either case, (if it's noticeable or not) like Terry, I've been happy with the results. So, yeah, I think the SV tool (which I have) or something like I do works well enough - and I'd do what makes sense for you, and I think you'll find it works just fine.
But if you want to base-grind, I'm not going to grind my gears about it. You do you. :)
Are you using aluminum oxide sandpaper or silicone carbide? I believe the SC paper cuts cleaner with few ‘hairies’.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorys
Here are a couple images from 2 different skis with a combination of original structure, SkiVisions stones and silicone carbide. One has a little cross hatching:
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Those bases look fantastic to me!
Will be giving the tool a try for sure.
Anyone use this tool for addressing base burn (white edges) caused by icy snow?
I have the Ski Visions tool and several skis that need base attention. Thought I might try it and see if it helps.
It's been a while since I watched Mark's SkiVisions videos, but either there or in a discussion he addresses 'refreshing the bases periodically' to deal with issues like base burn, 'battle scars' & restructuring. Skim a little with the steel blade and then restructure with the stone, wax, scrape & brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chupacabra
Doesn’t he suggest refreshing the bases after every day or two of skiing and not waxing?
I tried this last season on my work skis. It seemed to worked well for me except in sticky snow or spring slush, with the medium grit stone.
With race skis on hard snow and regular tuning, refreshing the bases periodically is necessary to keep them flat. For skis without damage, it's a necessary evil (skis generally get faster the more wax and brush cycles since the last grind, so long as they are still flat).
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Aesthetics may be different than performance. Those bases literally sucked today in transforming, wet/slurpy & gritty snow. Time to break out the coarse stone and sandpaper for a very aggressive structure, with graphite and yellow wax over purple.Quote:
Originally Posted by singlesline
I think he does say that, but I don't have the time to do it that frequently and my head would explode if I didn't wax. Having said that, for wet snow, the structure is the most important step to break the suction and allow channeling of water. Without it, the wax may do nothing. Manky/slurpy/mash potato snow is tough to mange even with aggressive structure IME.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
Thanks - I'll give it a try in the next couple of days and see how it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
Alpinord and gregorys
What grit silicon carbide paper are you using?
Looks fairly fine in Alpinords pics above, wondering if coarser might be better in current spring slop.
Absolutely, coarser would be better and don’t be shy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
I just banged out a 3d sanding block for my planer to test that idea. In 5-10 minutes, using 150 & 60 grit, coarse stone, followed by the steel blade to smooth out any ‘hairies’ and high points, I’m currently here and thinking coarser still based on past success.
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Is that sandblock thing 3D printed? That’s pretty rad!!
My experience has been that the time spent frequently touching up the bases and not waxing is MUCH faster than if I only wax. It makes my head explode a bit, too, and my iron gets sad with infrequent use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
For me, outside of warm snow conditions, it’s been a good strategy for better daily performance with minimal time having skis on the bench. (Not to discourage spending large amounts of time futzing with skis in the garage or basement)
Thanks. It's been an idea I've been kicking around. Yesterday's horrible prompted me to finally make one and test out. It works great and I'm tweaking the dimensions a little today. It could also be useful for general sanding for home projects.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
The beauty of the clamping system of the SkiVisons Base Flattener and the feel of the planer body is highly versatile and there are endless possibilities for uses and add-ons.
One being a scraper holder I posted a couple days ago.
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I know I should at least try this, but I don't wax very frequently when using durable waxes and I can't imagine the glide would be better than how these skis were running until yesterday. Plus with some quick waxing techniques I can bang out the waxing pretty fast when needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
I realized I didn't update this after trying the ski visions tool on base burn - short answer, yes, it helps. Did a few light-ish passes with the metal bar, then soaked in a layer of wax for summer.
That looks sweet Terry.
(I'm so cheap, I'll probably continue to use my PVC wrap - but I like yours!)
(Somehow I missed some of the questions up-thread.)
To answer about grit and type of sandpaper...
I've been using the 3M Pro grade sandpaper from the Borg (HD). It's waterproof, which helps keep base material from clogging the paper. (Wet the base prior to sand.)
I'd have to go check for sure, but I think I used 100 grit for my course passes. (Light touch, usually)
150-200 for more fine grain pattern/final pass.
I don't know if it helps remove fuzz, but I usually use a metal scraper with a rolled-lip. (Like you'd use for wood-working.) When I hot wax, I also use a metal scraper with a light touch.
Finally, since most of the time my skis are in a locker and I'm kind of lazy, I've been mostly crayon-ing on wax at the beginning of the day. Mostly I've started using the Wintersteiger Moly wax. It is a universal wax and certainly much softer than a hard cold temp wax. But even after a modest crayon, I can still see remnants of the wax at the end of the day. KUU graphite seems good too, and it's a bit harder then than the Wintersteiger stuff. (I'm on Hood, so much wetter and warmer than you further east - which may change things for both structure and wax.)
Good reminder on scraping. I definitely do and recommending either using the SkiVisions planer and (sharp) steel blade or metal scraper after sanding, followed by brushing, a light cleaner and hot scrape to smooth out the micro cuts, any ‘hairies’ and remove loose material.
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These discs might be a better option to this.
To me, the biggest problem with the SVBF (as well as my DIY version) is the file. Files are designed to be used perpendicular to the surface. That's why the teeth are set at an angle, to allow the tool to both cut and clean out the shavings.
By using the file 45*-90* from design, the cutting ability of the teeth are compromised at best and just don't cut well.
What we need is a file designed to be used sideways and I haven't been able to find one.
You are referring to the High Edge File Flattener and NOT the (High) Base Flattener & Structuring tool, correct? If so the teeth of a conventional file are in the direction of the cut:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxtar
https://www.slidewright.com/File_Fla...ner_body3.jpeg
In order to source the original crosscut files for the High Edge File Flattener. I'd have to order hundreds ($$$$) and it could take many months to get produced and arrive.
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I have a stash of a few I need to hold onto for now, unless you send me $1M.;)
The closest I've found to those and available are the Crescent Nicholson 8" Rectangular Double/Single Cut Axe File
or the SVST MultiKut File (which I can source).