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So have you peaked yet? If you skied/rode 100+ at any time in your 20-30's and you've hit 40, forget it. You're on the decline anyway and I don't care how many times you've read tb12 now :smile: And a huge difference between bc on east side vs west side.
Biggest difference for me is I don't get out as much without a pass, so my downhill ski legs suffer. I only go when it's good (or if I have time) and with a pass you just go if it's only for a couple hours.
There are a lot of good observations in this thread that line up with my experiences. I have found that - if and when I have the ability to do so - alternating between lift-served and touring results in maximum enjoyment for me. On a normal season, it takes a few days of lift skiing for me to sort of "warm up" and reach my maximum ability / possibly improve. I think that has to do with both repetition and just building strength. Downhill skiing builds more leg strength than I otherwise generally have, at least on the steep + variable terrain around here. Although as others have mentioned, it doesn't build cardio endurance like skinning, so they both complement each out well in that way. While many of my favorite days have been touring and that might be the ultimate form of skiing for me, there is a huge novelty to going back to the lifts and being able to get so many runs in. Another thing I've grown to appreciate is how much the weight and dampness alpine equipment sort of smooths out the imperfections of beat up ski area snow and makes it fun to ski. While light poppy bc skis can be really fun to ski on smooth bc powder, I think they are pretty miserable on firm or tracked out snow.
While it's easy to snob about snow conditions in the bc it's not like the snow is always perfect there, and a well-timed lift served powder day can result in skiing as much if not more pow even if you do hit more tracks. It's just a different experience, and I think there is a lot to be said for both. It's pretty often that the snow is hammered in the resort, and either the bc offers better snow or just a chance to hike and enjoy the scenery in a different way. Conversely, when the avalanche danger goes up I'm very happy to be at the ski area. When you have a pass, it becomes a pretty easy decision.
I like the feeling of sharp skis, hooking up on hard snow. I like to feel every turn. Each one has room for improvement. Hard too progress skiing 2,000 vert a day versus 20,000 vert at the hill. I also love smashing slush bumps in May. Storm riding on a fixed grip etc... I also like the shit-show at the hill, it's like a free comedy show with lifts!
Pretty sure she learned at the ski area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel
I'm not sure that a diet of pure backcountry skiing will result in diminished skill levels, especially if you have a solid foundation (i.e. thousands of days on snow) but you probably won't get much better. If you're picky about your gear, it's almost impossible to dial in a new setup with only self-powered mileage - whenever I get new skis or boots (pretty often) I spend a day or two skiing them on the lifts and adjusting things like ramp, forward lean, tune, etc.
Most of the season BC skiing is just boring yet terrifying at the same time around here. Our snowpack just suck much of the winter, and I’ve been in it for over 20 yrs. It can be nice to blast around the resort without a care in the world on high danger days. I feel like it is definitely a balance between resort and BC. Nice to not have variable conditions and super lightweight gear holding you back too.
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This. Well said Dromond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromond
Quantity over quality of turns will make your legs strong and a better skier. But if you've been skiing for years and have a solid technique, I'm not sure how much worse you will get.
BC does make average skiers though (I think), I'm curious if it's younger peeps who never put a lot of time on ski hills and have skied just BC for 3-5 years or even more. Last year there was a deep day in the LLC backcountry, and on top I watched about 5 skiers go down before me. They were way backseat and all flailing a bit, and I thought to myself, "Shit that is some variable snow!!". I eased in expecting the worse, and it was my very first run on new boots and skis, so I was super timid. The snow was knee deep, perfect LCC blower, with no variable layers. I know I'm judging a lot of BC skiers by one run, but it really made me think on why those guys couldn't ski perfect powder. Maybe don't go super light and super skinny with equipment, medium to wide width skis will keep you a strong skier...in theory. Interesting thread, confirms a few thoughts I had...
Less blow, more feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
You're all done. Over the hill. Toast. Buh bye improvement. Maybe that new no wax will help you glide faster on the flats.Quote:
Each one has room for improvement.
Over 40 and still riding a board, how does yer family feel about that?
Embarrassed, I'm sure!
I took 10 years off of skiing. But I sucked back then so my return wasn't disappointing.
You'll be fine.
My dog loves me unconditionally. And my number starts with a 5 as of 2017. But I dust u on two, one, or tele planks...your choice. :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
I could see this maybe effecting muscle memory in variable stuff, moguls, etc, but otherwise? I don't think it would really be a big deal.
What do the folks that only ski BC do on the shit days?
You know - Avi risk in the extreme, crust top to bottom.
Those are the days to get out and rip the groomers, ski the icy bumps, try out the skierX course etc, etc,
There are months that I don't think I would have skied much if bc was the only skiing I did -damn coastal influence wind hammered snow days.
I don't know how much worse you could get only skiing bc, personally I can't get much worse, but I do know some folks that bought the bc gear before putting in the time on the hill. It is painful to watch, especially when the conditions are less than ideal.
They learn to ski shitty conditionsQuote:
Originally Posted by LHutz Esq
Mix it up. Skiing only backcountry will improve your backcountry skills. Every year before the lifts start spinning I see lots of very good skiers out in the backcountry with good skiing skills but poor backcountry skills. Riding lifts will improve your skiing skills. Kind of like the argument that being a good rock climber does not make you a mountaineer. Den
- I am going where the fun is.
In my mind groomers>death crust.
Skiing is about the fun
i don't see how you can dispute that going downhill less is going to decrease your downhill proficiency. but everyone starts touring with a different degree of downhill ability. the dude who's been pounding vert at resorts for 20 years who starts exclusively touring probably won't notice much of a decline. and everyone has different goals in the bc. some people push it in the resort but just want to do safe mellow hippy turns in the bc. for now, my goal when i'm touring is to rip lines aggressively the way i do at the resort, but i can see that changing as i get older, fatter, and more risk averse.
i'll always ride resorts. i love the act of snowboarding, and the bottom line is you just don't get to do much actual snowboarding in the bc. last sunday i apparently rode 9500m of vert at the resort (never used the whis vert-tracking app before but it's actually kind of cool). that would take me a weeklong hut trip to do in the bc. there's also kinds of riding you can only do in the resort - (groomers, sidehits, riding switch a lot, park, etc.) that i still love doing and i think make you a better rider overall. i also love the freedom of riding without having a giant weight strapped to my back (fucking airbag).
Low angle terrain, learn to work the aspects/elevations, find where the snow's good. At least in the Wasatch it's almost never a shit day at every snowy elevation at every aspect in every type of terrain. And when it's high danger it's usually great snow, so ski 25º and enjoy skiing hip-deep powder.Quote:
Originally Posted by LHutz Esq
Early season it sucks (like right now) when there's just no coverage anywhere. This is a good "get a few cheap resort days" time imo.
I had a friend like that ^^ out in PG, one of them older telewanking-exclusively-BC-skier types I think you are talking about, I suggested that hill skiing would sharpen her skiing chops so she got the pass, promptly fell ... broke her wristQuote:
Originally Posted by LHutz Esq
Did some days touring up the hill week before it opened, so I would get 2 or 3 runs a day, it's a good aerobic workout but not really very hard on the body, then of course we hit it hard during this openning weekend pow cycle, I probably skied at least 3 times as many runs each day at a much faster speed and today I definatly feel done
do you believe in the 10,000 hr rule?
that one gets better by doing more reps of a task ?
3rd year of no local pass, but mtn collective every year and usually a 4pack. Works for me, and keeps me mostly out of I70 fuckage. Nothing new to add to the responses given thus far. Resort skiing fitness goes down, touring fitness up. Aggressive ski abilities level off. If you started out with skills, you'll retain them, if not, it's gonna be a longer road towards competency.
Now that b/c skiing is en vogue, I've noticed a big uptick in the number of skiers going this route. Dunno about other places, but in CO we seem to have a large new population of users that are willing to spend a weekend getting some avalanche training (great!) but aren't willing to admit, or are perhaps unaware that their ski skills are a liability. During springtime when steep lines are in shape, it goes from painful to watch to frightening. #beaterson14ers and all that. I'm happy to mentor, but have opted out of many missions with overly-ambitious pals due to fears of watching them yardsale down serious lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by LHutz Esq
General progression for me during low tide:Quote:
Originally Posted by LHutz Esq
1. Go Braapping - can always find pow to wreck with a 2stroke powder chariot to explore on
2. Explore a new zone on skis, find lines for another day
3. Play in snow - dig a few pits near the areas I frequent, brush up on tests (ECT, Prop Saw, etc.), maybe do my once annual pit profile if it's reaaaallly bad.
4. Drink Beer
What does this even mean, decline in skier ability? Are you afraid that you will forget how to vadel.?
...like riding a bike
one observation i've made is that it seems like skiers and snowboarders differ a lot in how they view bc vs resort. almost all the experienced skiers i know are totally jaded on the resort. they're all "quality over quantity". they mostly tour and will pass on resort days when there's no fresh. whereas a lot more of the snowboarders i know still love riding resorts even on shitty days.
i think it's because it's easier to have fun on a flat bumpy groomer on a board than on skis. i can have a blast on a pretty flat groomer - trying to get low on eurocarves, riding slow trying to do butters, messing around on little sidehits. it's all "quality"!
We go to work and save our days off for good conditionsQuote:
Originally Posted by LHutz Esq
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oh for the love of gawd, don't go there!Quote:
Originally Posted by raypruit
and stare forlornly at the forecast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeedashbo
Work, life, family. Resorts in the east suck on so many levels it's easy to feel good not supporting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by LHutz Esq
You're such a beater. Mid-week skiing in Vermont, NH and Maine is awesome on so many levels. Ski right on the lift, all day, everyday. I could go on, but splaining shit to a Jersey tool is tedious.
just calling it like i see it. i have a hard time getting any of my skier buds to do non-pow resort days with meQuote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
There we go. I was getting worried we were having an actual dialogue about skiing instead of insulting others and debasing ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/Victorious...er-max-1mb.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
Where the fuck are we?Quote:
Originally Posted by Angle Parkng
TGR or pugski?
Take a Lap
I see this around the Whistler area all the time (and more each year). People getting into backcountry skiing without a solid foundation in how to you know, actually ski. Backseat, hands down, hip steering, falling all the time etc. I find that extremely dangerous and do not like to be anywhere near people like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
My personal view is that you need to be a competent alpine skier before getting into touring.
weird. i've only been concerned about improving my skills before i get too old so i can splitboard bc. it never occurred to me that my downhill snowboarding skills would suffer from lack of repetition at some point. i assumed once you reach a certain level that just being on skis at all even if it's 80% uphill would suffice for maintenance, assuming nobody is trying to be olympic dh'ers.
I would see people come to the hut ski op up here for a holiday, they come from all over the world some of them only ski one week a year, osmne of them have neither the conditioning or the skiing ability, you gotta wonder did they ever have it or are they just rusty?
what they do got is the 5K it costs to be there
I agree - I never want to be that guy telling another person how to have fun on snow - but tomahawking down the hill, or digging oneself out of a bomb hole every turn just doesn't scream fun to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by gramboh
I volunteer at the local ski swap and every year I try and talk someone with little to no skiing experience out of the used dynafiddles. If you don't know what a din is - maybe the side of a mountain isn't the place to find out that your bindings don't really have it.
We are lucky here in that a few days after a dump one can still find the goods. Unfortunately, we are also cursed with a very touchy snow-pack, so there are days that are just more fun on the hill. Also days that are just more fun touring, but that is one of the great things about skiing- no reason to ever get bored. Although, I also xc and tele on occasion so it might just be that I am fucked in the head.
When I had a pass that was obviously the game. Plus weekends until 10 or so when the fuck-tards from the low country rolled in I could bail and go to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
Other reasons resorts in the east suck...
snowmaking. (This one could be it's own thread)
Imported labor from 3rd world countries.
Tourists.
Massive and grotesque real estate development schemes.
Traffic.
Litter.
I could go on and on.
You should move to North Korea, brah. I hear the skiing is good, and they keep it real. You would fit in perfect. You're like 5'5" amiright?
Good to go!
Yep, see it a ton as well in the S2S corridor. I think touring is just so accessible now, and inbounds skiing is just so fucking expensive, that a lot of folks just skip the inbounds skiing all together... I remember when my student pass to WB was $249... and it really wasn't that long ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by gramboh
Chair 1 laps counteract all signs of aging. FACT.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
As long as one is trying to improve and has good guidance, I believe that is true. If you go out to BigMegaResort and skid down the awesome blue-square groomers a few times, stop for a beer, and then go skid down one of them scary black-diamond runs before hitting the apres scene promptly at 2:30 p.m., repetition probably isn't helping much except your bartender's wallet. And if that makes you happy, it's all good—you're still paying to keep the lifts spinning and getting outside, which is better than a lot of alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
With that said, even if you're trying to improve, 10k hours is a lot of ski days. I'll pick Sunday as an example: I was on the hill coaching from 9 a.m. to 11:30 and 12:30 to about 3:15. I took 14 runs during that time, which is probably about 28 minutes of actual skiing, maybe up to 56 minutes if working a lot of low-speed drills. Let's round that up to an hour, and assume that if you're at a ski area with modern lifts you get twice as much skiing (we're all fixed-grip here until the more-interesting terrain opens up and we get a detach to play on). 10,000 hr / 2 hr/day = 5,000 days. A 37-year-old averaging 145 ski days/year after age two would be in that neighborhood. Yes, you can end up with a lot more vertical lapping a bigger mountain with high-speed lifts, but I'm not so sure you're going to end up with that much more time skiing per day (it's still going to be a lot of time on lifts or time spent stopped and making line choices or catching your breath, etc).