What Beacon now?

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

I understand the theory just the idea of making the decision on who to dig up first based on who is wearing a particular type of beacon gives me the shivers... especially when it's the searcher's wife wearing that beacon.

Is there any record of the pulse function being used in a real slide?

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I expect it not to work and therefore the decisions to be simple, but obviously there are exceptions.

If you have two burials, one showing signs of life and one not, and the whole party knows who you're digging for (and who's waiting) based on who wore what beacon, does that present a problem? Ideally you'd hope to have an idea of who's who based on last points seen. I've never heard of anyone getting too wrapped up in the ethics implied there, although they certainly could. There is a de facto bias toward digging up the person with a Pulse first, but only when doing so is clearly the right thing to do. I'm fine with that. If it encourages people to add that function that might be a good thing (if it works well).

I do think it should be obvious that you don't prioritize a 3m burial over a 1m burial just based on this, but maybe that's your concern?

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Originally Posted by jono

There is a de facto bias toward digging up the person with a Pulse first

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That's the slight problem that causes me to pause and think.

Unless it's an industry standard then it's not about digging up the person with a pulse.

It probably should be an industry standard.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Unless it's an industry standard then it's not about digging up the person with a pulse.

It probably should be an industry standard.

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If it works, yes it should be a standard. Not sure we're there yet, but maybe the newer stuff is getting better.

But I'm not following the logic of how it would be about anything but digging up the person with the pulse: it doesn't do anything unless a pulse is detected so it can only create that bias if digging up the person with the pulse is the goal. A standard would be better but not having one is not creating an ethical dilemma.

My daughter uses the Pieps DSP Sport - the newest one, and I really like it. But, she's going to be taking her Canadian Avalanche Association Avalanche Operations Level 1, and it's not the on the recommended beacon list. The list is made up of "pro level" beacons like the Pulse, S1+, etc. So, I'm keen on seeing the new Barryvox S.

Which has been leading me to think about the pulse sensing technology and how it relates to a multiple burial scenario. I can see how, even if everyone is wearing pulse equipped beacons, it might influence the decision making process in a way that might not make sense.

Suppose I have two burials. One is 1.5M down and has no pulse. The other is 2.5M down and is reading a pulse. Is the first victim (1.5M down) really not breathing? Or is their beacon just shifted in such a way that the sensor isn't being tripped? Avalanches are violent events and someone's beacon might be with them, but not up against their body in such a way as to trigger the sensor.

Without any of the quandary introduced by the pulse sensor, of course we dig the 1.5M victim first. We stand a much greater chance of having a survivour thanks to the shorter time required to dig the shallower buried victim. If we let the pulse sensor into the equation, do we dig the deeper victim? I would still dig the shallower victim, so that means the pulse tech isn't entering into my decision making, so then I have to wonder how useful it is.

There is another factor that was mentioned above, and that's one of you knowing who is who in a multiple burial situation. If my daughter (who is one of my regular skiing partners) is wearing a pulse sensing beacon and I know the other victim is not, and I get a pulse reading, there's no doubt that I'm digging my daughter out first no matter how deep she's buried and how shallow the other victim might be. It's just the way it is. In that case, the pulse tech might lead to two fatalities instead of one, and I know how to avoid it, but there's no way I'd be able to.

While I think the pulse sensing technology is interesting, I think it needs more development and needs to be standard on more (or all) beacons before it becomes a valuable tool.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Why are you assuming she can't pick a beacon herself? As it happens, my wife knows way more than me about avy safety and can buy whatever she wants. But I love my Pulse, so I'm personally am interested in how the new Mammuts perform, hence my question. As is typical of us, she's comfortable with her current gear while I'm trying to convince her the new and shiny will be better.

Not trying to jump down your throat -- just sometimes the general feeling on TGR that we men need to buy gear for the non-tech-savvy womenfolk grates on me.

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Relax Francis. He's on here asking for tech info not marriage counseling...

I am not convinced the pulse will work if worn in a pants pocket. You are more likely to have detectable movement with the beacon against your abdomen than a thigh.

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Originally Posted by johngenx

....I can see how, even if everyone is wearing pulse equipped beacons, it might influence the decision making process ......knowing who is who in a multiple burial situation. If my daughter (who is one of my regular skiing partners) is wearing a pulse sensing beacon and I know the other victim is not, and I get a pulse reading, there's no doubt that I'm digging my daughter out first no matter how deep she's buried and how shallow the other victim might be.

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^ this

Yup

nothing to add to johngenx's lucid observations

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Originally Posted by johngenx

My daughter uses the Pieps DSP Sport - the newest one, and I really like it. But, she's going to be taking her Canadian Avalanche Association Avalanche Operations Level 1, and it's not the on the recommended beacon list. The list is made up of "pro level" beacons like the Pulse, S1+, etc.

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I guess I think that it's bullshit to only recommend those feature-laden beacons. The DSP Sport, the Element, and the 3+ are all excellent beacons and deserving of serious consideration. Those 'features' don't appeal to me at all. I like things to be as simple as possible when the shit hits the fan.

Like some others here, the idea of trying to make Sophie's Choice while in an multiple victim avy scenario is very off-putting. IMO you make the choice on locations and depths, and not by keeping looking for a pulse reading. It just adds a very subjective factor to a very chaotic and stressful decision-making situation.

And for instance

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If my daughter (who is one of my regular skiing partners) is wearing a pulse sensing beacon and I know the other victim is not, and I get a pulse reading, there's no doubt that I'm digging my daughter out first no matter how deep she's buried and how shallow the other victim might be.

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What if there are two pulse-sensing beacons, or three? Or you don't get a signal from a pulse-sensing beacon?

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Originally Posted by johngenx

My daughter uses the Pieps DSP Sport - the newest one, and I really like it. But, she's going to be taking her Canadian Avalanche Association Avalanche Operations Level 1, and it's not the on the recommended beacon list. The list is made up of "pro level" beacons like the Pulse, S1+, etc. So, I'm keen on seeing the new Barryvox S.

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Recommended personal equipment for Avalanche Operations Level 1
Version August 2017
Avalanche transceiver – The accepted standard for avalanche operations work is a modern 3-antenna digital
transceiver. Modern is considered to be a model that is currently offered, supported, and/or recommended for
professional use by the transceiver manufacturer.
“Single antenna (analog) transceivers are considered obsolete. Need convincing? Three antennae digital
transceivers generally won’t find single antenna transceivers as well as digital units. That means if two people are
buried close together, the one with the digital transceiver is likely to be isolated first. Signal overlap can also be a
significantly bigger issue with old transceivers in a multi-burial scenario.” Avalanche Canada, 2016

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What's wrong with the DSP sport?

I've never seen this "recommended for professional use by the transceiver manufacturer." before.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

What's wrong with the DSP sport?

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nothing

The DSP Sport is an excellent beacon. I'm just using the recommended equipment list that was supplied by the CAA, but oddly, has now been taken down. Perhaps it's being updated.

I'm more than fine with her changing beacons as I'm using a Tracker 2, and I like the DSP Sport better - so I'm going to buy her a new beacon and take the Pieps for myself.

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

nothing

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My point.

I have a Pro... the slightly longer range and frequency test is nice but not nearly enough to condemn the Sport to "non-professional use".

Oh, so yes, the equipment list for the CAA AO1 has changed, and no longer has a very specific list of beacons and other equipment. The previous one was right down to brands and models. Interesting.

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.avalanc..._List_2017.pdf

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

My point.

I have a Pro... the slightly longer range and frequency test is nice but not nearly enough to condemn the Sport to "non-professional use".

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I'm super impressed with the Pieps. BD really good a good job with them. I can't believe how fast the kid is with her DSP. She needs to be able to find two beacons buried 70cm down in a 40Mx40M plot in <5min, and damn, she cracks that no problem with the DSP. I am well practiced with my Tracker 2, and I'm still a little faster with the DSP even though it's not my beacon. It's got great range for a well-priced beacon - you start in on the flux line sooner than with my older Tracker 2.

So this winter I wanted to upgrade form my Tracker 2, and so I'll just get her a stylin' new beacon and I'll take the DSP. Then she can spend this season getting super proficient with the new unit. She can't do her CAA this year, as you need to be 19, so she's got this winter to spend a lot of time in/on the snow and working with her gear.

My next challenge is finding an airbag pack that properly fits her tiny frame - but that's another topic completely, ugh.

If knowing who's who before digging is a problem, what do you guys do in a scenario where you have last seen points that indicate where your daughter was relative to another skier?

Having tested our Pulses' ability to signal a pulse I'm far more concerned about people assuming the signal will be there on any living victim. Not only does it not work well in a pants pocket, I have enough trouble getting it to function consistently in its harness on my chest that I make sure my wife knows it probably won't indicate anything, so just dig. If you are lucky enough to get that other piece of information then it's up to you to use it intelligently. Good on you knowing your limits, I guess, but how often is this Sophie's choice scenario actually happening?

For me it's not a 1.5m vs. 2.5m that I'd be concerned about, it would be more like 1.2 vs. 1.4 where depths are both probed. Knowing makes for a blurry line if another 20 cm gets to a known live victim but the volume of snow to move rises exponentially and the shallower victim may well be alive, too. On most slopes I'd ignore the pulse info with a difference of more than maybe 30 cm. I can see a worry about whether knowing causes hesitation or disagreement among the rescuers, but it's not a big concern. My mindset will not allow me to give up on anyone I would be skiing with and I tend to ski with like minded folks.

Importantly, you don't go beacon to shovel. None of these things is good enough to skip the probing, so where to dig first is a decision you make with probes stuck in the snow. If you're really concerned about bad decision making based on knowledge you'd rather not have, are you carrying a short enough probe so you won't locate anyone too deep to dig out?

I honestly think the added motivation of digging towards a beating heart should factor in more often than specific multiple burial scenarios, which would make the question more about whether an unreliable pulse-sensing system (and unrealistic expectations) is worse than none at all. Obviously an even more personal choice.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

... the slightly longer range and frequency test is nice

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Plus twice the battery life in send mode . . .

I'm just going to say that if you practice enough realistic multiple burial scenarios, you might find the idea of looking specifically for a given beacon to be either kind of unrealistic or overwhelming.

YMMV

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Originally Posted by johngenx

My next challenge is finding an airbag pack that properly fits her tiny frame - but that's another topic completely, ugh.

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Mammut makes short torso versions of some of their airbag packs. Ortovox also makes women's specific airbags.

To counter the Pieps love just a little bit... yes, the DSP is an excellent beacon IF you carry it in the supplied harness. However if you prefer to carry the beacon in a reinforced pants pocket (I'm not going to debate that decision, there are valid arguments for and against it, but it is becoming increasingly popular with some professionals), the DSP has a possible issue. The design of the switch makes it possible for the beacon to switch itself from Send to Search mode without any user input. The auto-revert function in theory should mean that it'll switch back to send if you get avalanched... but it's far from ideal, and worth bringing up since even Pieps says in their manual that carrying in a pants pocket is an approved method. Some of the other beacons, like the 3+ or Barryvox offerings, have switches that are impossible for this to happen with.

One other quibble - the switch to go from Send to Search is the same switch as the On/Off switch. Also, the labels for the mode are hidden under the switch. That means if you're in Send, and you look at the front of the beacon, it's impossible to visually tell which direction to move the switch to go into Search. This is solved with practice, but still... if you haven't practiced enough for it to be automatic and forget which way is which in the chaos of an avy accident, you have a 50% chance of turning your beacon off instead of going to Search. I really like how the 3+ uses a totally different switch for On/Off, so there is zero chance of this happening.

Still, the range and overall functionality of the Pieps makes it a very appealing beacon.

(I carried a DSP Pro for 10 years and recently switched to a 3+. I like many things better about the 3+ but really miss the longer range of the DSP. I'll also continue to own a DSP for the foreseeable future as the frequency drift function is the best way I've found to convince people to upgrade their old Tracker 1s.)

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

However if you prefer to carry the beacon in a reinforced pants pocket (I'm not going to debate that decision, there are valid arguments for and against it, but it is becoming increasingly popular with some professionals), the DSP has a serious flaw. The design of the switch makes it possible for the beacon to switch itself from Send to Search mode without any user input.

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Huh? DSP Sport and Pro requires considerable pressure on the switch lockout simultaneous with considerable force on a perpendicular plane to slide the switch into search mode. I've never experienced nor heard about nor read about a DSP switching on its own "without user input." I cannot imagine how that would ever happen. It's a very reliable design. Claiming a "serious design flaw" is getting close to unwarranted fearmongering.

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

Huh? DSP Sport and Pro requires considerable pressure on the switch lockout simultaneous with considerable force on a perpendicular plane to slide the switch into search mode. I've never experienced nor heard about nor read about a DSP switching on its own "without user input." I cannot imagine how that would ever happen. It's a very reliable design. Claiming a "serious design flaw" is getting close to unwarranted fearmongering.

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Perpendicular forces are also required to switch the Pulse on, but upthread this was noted to have happened in luggage. Improbable not impossible.

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

Huh? DSP Sport and Pro requires considerable pressure on the switch lockout. I've never experienced nor heard about nor read about a DSP switching on its own "without user input." I cannot imagine how that would ever happen. It's a very reliable design, hardly a "serious flaw." You're getting close to unwarranted fearmongering.

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It has happened to me.

It also potentially happened to the victim here:
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...de?pid=4959261

It's probably unusual, but it's not impossible.

"Unwarranted fear mongering" and "serious flaw" are both our respective opinions. I'm editing my original post as my opinion of the severity of the flaw has no bearing on whether or not it's a possibility - more relevant is that a user that wants to carry in their pocket should probably consider the possibility and judge for themselves whether it's an acceptable risk.

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Originally Posted by johngenx

My next challenge is finding an airbag pack that properly fits her tiny frame - but that's another topic completely, ugh.

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There are only a few airbag packs out there specifically for women (as in more design elements than simply shortening the torso), but they are all under 30L. Dakine makes a pack that is 26L Poacher RAS that is very nice and worth a look.
https://www.dakine.com/en-us/bags/ba...-26l-backpack/

Ortovox also makes on in the 20s range than is truly designed for female anatomy.

Okay, good that you revised your post. FTR, I said "close to unwarranted fearmongering." (Beacon fearmongering is a thing, as I've recently been reminded per a discussion about using NiMH cells fully charged before each trip vs. the very common practice of using alkies installed 4 months before a trip.)

What are the circumstances under which it happened to you? I want to know. More info is better.

I recall seeing that thread. Re what happened there, the more apt qualifier is "speculative" (looking back at what happened) rather than "potential" (looking forward at what might happen). And IMV, based on the limited available evidence, it was as likely or more likely user error. Either way, it's a sad story.

Every beacon I've seen could be accidentally switched under some set of unusual conditions. Re Pulse, I agree with jono: improbable but not impossible. With all things engineering, reality requires one to speak in terms of probability, not absolutism (e.g., "impossible").

Yeah, DSP is designed to carry in a harness. If you do wear a DSP in a pants pocket or jacket pocket, carry it with the face of the beacon inward, towards your body, which is similar to carrying it in a harness.

I just had a light bulb go on. I think I can make a simple gizmo that will make it virtually impossible to switch a DSP (without harness) from send to search without deliberate user action.

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

What are the circumstances under which it happened to you? I want to know. More info is better.

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Normal touring. Turned beacon on a TH, did beacon check with group. Switched to send, stowed in right front hip pocket (Trew Roam bibs) with screen facing towards my body. Short 15-ish minute skin, 1000ft descent, another 30ish minute skin. While transitioning for the second descent, a partner that was kneeling near me heard the beacon pinging in my pocket (it was windy enough that I couldn't hear it). When I took the beacon out of my pocket, the switch had moved slightly and was resting in between Send and Search - far enough that the beacon was in Search mode, but not all the way locked in that mode. I believe at some point during the second ascent the slider lock depressed just enough to allow the switch to move slightly. 100% positive that it was fully in Send prior to beginning the tour and through the first descent (the first couple transitions were in sheltered locations and I would have been able to hear it).

i put my beacon in the pants pocket on the clip, it gets turned on when i put the pants on, something one of them yur a peeing beacon guys said was that statisticaly a beacon had never been ripped out of someones pants in an aviy

I have heard of people forgetting to put a beacon harness back on when stripping layers, localy some guys skied the "5000" a big face that goes big and forget a beacon on a rock at the top ... they went back to get it the next day

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

Okay, good that you revised your post. FTR, I said "close to unwarranted fearmongering." (Beacon fearmongering is a thing, as I've recently been reminded per a discussion about using NiMH cells fully charged before each trip vs. the very common practice of using alkies installed 4 months before a trip.)
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You can buy a doz alkalines for 10$, they will last in most skiers beacon for a season but I think its more about the rechargables putting out a different amount of current ( or sft ) so beacon batteries are not the place to go green or save money or WTF

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

i put my beacon in the pants pocket on the clip, it gets turned on when i put the pants on, something one of them yur a peeing beacon guys said was that statisticaly a beacon had never been ripped out of someones pants in an aviy

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Basically this is exactly what I do for almost exactly the same reason.
My wife has the same beacon [;)] and she likes wearing the harness. She finds it more comfortable and easier that way. Cool.

But fuck you guys I’m rescuing her first.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

You can buy a doz alkalines for 10$, they will last in most skiers beacon for a season but I think its more about the rechargables putting out a different amount of current ( or sft ) so beacon batteries are not the place to go green or save money or WTF

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It's the discharge rates being different. voltage drops more progressively with alkalines. So your trail-head check that says 80% is nothing in few hours time with rechargeables.

Steve - post details of your gizmo.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

You can buy a doz alkalines for 10$, they will last in most skiers beacon for a season but I think its more about the rechargables putting out a different amount of current ( or sft ) so beacon batteries are not the place to go green or save money or WTF

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Well, we've talked about this in at least one other thread. Manufacturers spec alky cells because beacon battery life indicator circuitry is designed for alky voltage curve drop, which starts at c. 1.5V then quickly dives to 1.4V then slowly declines to 1.3V, then 1.2V, then 1.1V, then 1.0V then slowly dies. NiMH voltage curve is very flat, starting at c. 1.4V, then quickly diving to 1.2V+ and stays at 1.2V+ for 95% of cell life until a steep voltage dropoff. (Beacon send/receive circuitry is designed to be fully functional at a range from 1.0V to 1.5.)

So, alky spec is all about battery life indicator circuitry. If you diligently charge your NiMH cells before each trip (as I faithfully do, and have done for years, for all outdoor devices), NiMH cells work as well as alky cells and offer the opportunity of starting each trip with full cell capacity. (With alky cells that would require new batteries each trip.) Personally, I would rather know that I head out each trip with fully charged NiMH cells with 2000 mAh capacity rather than installing alky cells in November and thus very possibly having 500 mAh capacity in a trip in February.

For those who are not diligent NiMH chargers, alky cells + replacing @50% life is the way to go, for sure. That likely describes most ski tourists.

Today 10:29 AM
I use NiMh batteries for radios, camera and GPS and ironically, I'd have no problem using them in a beacon as long as they were new every other use or so. IME they tend to die/stop taking a full charge rather suddenly and then lose voltage prematurely despite a recent charge. Maybe I'm not charging them perfectly or something but until they start showing themselves reliable at 3 yo in other applications I'm not sticking them in a beacon. Lithiums FTW in the cold if that's an option.

Adding: It's great that we have these discussions. Greater knowledge and better understanding re devices are good things. Nonetheless it's important that we remind ourselves that beacons are a tool to be used after a slide. Safe travel in avy-prone terrain starts with making decisions before we set out, reading terrain, assessing snow pack and exercising good judgment -- and that includes sometimes turning back. We cannot allow talk about technical aspects of avy beacons get in the way of the bigger picture re safe travel in the mountains.

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

Adding: It's great that we have these discussions. Greater knowledge and better understanding re devices are good things. Nonetheless it's important that we remind ourselves that beacons are a tool to be used after a slide. Safe travel in avy-prone terrain starts with making decisions before we set out, ready terrain, assessing snow pack and exercising good judgment -- and that includes sometimes turning back. We cannot allow talk about technical aspects of avy beacons get in the way of the bigger picture re safe travel in the mountains.

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Absolutely.

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Originally Posted by jono

IME they tend to die/stop taking a full charge rather suddenly and then lose voltage prematurely despite a recent charge.

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If you use high quality LSD cells, e.g., Eneloops, and a smart charger with a readout, you'll know precisely how much charge each cell takes for each charge cycle. Again, IMO NiMH cells in avy beacons are a good idea only if you are diligent about charging and have at least some degree of NiMH cell nerdiness.

Also, alky cells are sometimes bad, even when brand new. I've bought brand spanking new alky cells that had <30% battery life and a few that were complete duds (yes, one of those duds was a Duracell). OTOH, I've seen only one semi-dud Eneloop out of >100 Eneloop cells, and I knew that per my battery nerd diligent charging regimen. In other words, IME NiMH cells are more of a known quantity than alky cells.

Maybe I shouldn't post anything about this, here or elsewhere. NiMH cell nerds with sufficient acumen figure it out on their own. Non-NiMH nerds probably should use alky cells and change them out @50% or sooner.

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

Maybe I shouldn't post anything about this, here or elsewhere. NiMH cell nerds with sufficient acumen figure it out on their own.

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I would not take it that far, but certainly don't leave your description to "NiMh" when that encompasses a lot of less reliable consumer batteries than what you're really talking about. I'm intrigued by the Eneloops, but will likely make the switch in the radios and GPS for a few years first.

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

Adding: It's great that we have these discussions. Greater knowledge and better understanding re devices are good things. Nonetheless it's important that we remind ourselves that beacons are a tool to be used after a slide. Safe travel in avy-prone terrain starts with making decisions before we set out, ready terrain, assessing snow pack and exercising good judgment -- and that includes sometimes turning back. We cannot allow talk about technical aspects of avy beacons get in the way of the bigger picture re safe travel in the mountains.

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OK, I'm old. My first trips in the "backcountry" nobody wore beacons, (or had any safety equipment really). We were mostly just scared as hell to ski anything that looked at all like it might even remotely slide. (This includes heli skiing in AK, and trips to La Grave, BTW.) Fast forward to 5-6 years ago, and I get my 2 main ski partners to do the Level 1 course with me. During the class, I tell my wife that it's kinda basic stuff, and really just stuff we've always been doing. (It was nice to know the names of things to help me read reports, though.)

I am so happy I'm on my second beacon and I never used the first. I hope this tradition continues.

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

Adding: It's great that we have these discussions. Greater knowledge and better understanding re devices are good things. Nonetheless it's important that we remind ourselves that beacons are a tool to be used after a slide. Safe travel in avy-prone terrain starts with making decisions before we set out, reading terrain, assessing snow pack and exercising good judgment -- and that includes sometimes turning back. We cannot allow talk about technical aspects of avy beacons get in the way of the bigger picture re safe travel in the mountains.

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+2. Nerding out on the tech and carrying a beacon/shovel/probe has almost become a badge to identify "knowledgeable" bc users. Silliness.

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Originally Posted by jono

. . . but certainly don't leave your description to "NiMh" when that encompasses a lot of less reliable consumer batteries than what you're really talking about. I'm intrigued by the Eneloops, but will likely make the switch in the radios and GPS for a few years first.

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Fair point. Most brands of NiMH are garbage, made in a single garbage Chinese factory.

Eneloop, Powerex or Sony NiMH cells are high quality and very reliable, moreso than Duracell alky cells IME. (There may be other high quality reliable NiMH cells but I lack sufficient experience to opine.) IME 2015 and earlier Duracell-branded NiMH cells are garbage (although I've read that a recently introduced Duracell-branded NiMH cell might be a private labeled Eneloop). I've also read that there's a new Energizer NiMH cell that is reliable, but I have no experience with those, and my view would be tainted per terrible experience with older garbage Energizer NiMH cells. If in doubt, just get Eneloop regulars (white, green or blue).

FWIW, I use Powerex in my headlamp and GPSr for week-long mountain trips because they have the highest capacity, e.g., 2700 mAh AA or better, but they are not LSD thus require charging before each trip. Powerex cells are very high quality and reliable. All my Powerex cells have charged and discharged to better than spec capacity through hundreds of charge cycles. Eneloop Pro fka Eneloop XX are higher capacity (2400 mAh or better) but are warranted to last only 500 (full) charging cycles vs. 2000 for regular Eneloops. No need for Eneloop Pros for avy beacons, which are low current draws.

One of the great things re high quality NiMH cells and a smart charger w/readout: I know how much current a device uses on each trip, which is great info for planning longer trips. And as I said above, another big plus is the ability to start each trip with fully charged cells in all my devices. (More than once I've assisted others with dead alky cells in their headlamps.)

If you want to know more, check out CandlePowerForums. Lots of very smart engineer types and battery ubernerds there who do objective testing and post results. Great resource.

Again, if you don't have the NiMH knack/interest, and don't want to mess with a smart charger w/readout, use alkys and change @50%.

Seems the latest Mammuts are geared to take lithium batteries or alkaline. That's nice - the extra life of the lithium is nice to have, and they're a bit lighter too.

I asked my daughter if she's had any issues with the DSP switching modes and she said no - and even complained a bit about the fussiness of switching modes compared to her previous Tracker 2. But, she does use the harness (one reason we chose the DSP was the harness fits her amazingly well) so I can't speak to using it in a pocket. I have used the beacon during practice sessions and I never thought "oh, that might be an issue." But, I was of course, busy with other thoughts.

I really like the processor in the S1+ that guides you directly to the victim, and the "map" style screen is super easy to use, but I found the flip-phone style case clunky and not ergonomic to me. Still an awesome beacon though.

The various Tracker beacons use LEDs that are bright and easy to use. I have little time using a Tracker 3, so I can't comment on it. My old Tracker 2 does the job, but newer beacons have better range and better "extra" features.

I've used the DSP and DSP Pro in practice sessions, liked them both a lot. I think in the "inexpensive" beacon category, the DSP Sport is one of the best buys - you get a ton of beacon for the money. When BD took over Pieps I braced myself a little, but it seems that BD has had a positive effect on the beacons.

And hey guys, it's snowing a lot in the Canadian Rockies! I'm going next week to visit my daughter (she finished high school this summer and has now moved to Banff) and we're going skiing! So, even though it's a beacon thread, here's a little ski stoke. My then 15-yr old kid skiing on the Wapta Icefields...

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...07&oe=5AA7EE6D

I still prefer a simple to use beacon, like the tracker.

I think the multiple burials are almost 100 percent avoidable, ski one at the time.

Which is good to do even in non avalanche conditions. Ie, if you fall, don't run into your partner.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

Quote:

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Originally Posted by plugboots

But fuck you guys I’m rescuing her first.

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Well, okay...I guess I'll let you go before me then.

;)