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I'm in the same boat as you and I've demoed a few bikes so far. Maybe you should take a medium Smuggler out for a spin too see how it feels? I tried a large Smuggler and loved it. It's a super fun bike. I liked it a lot more than the medium Scout I rode before it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleT
NoobQuote:
Originally Posted by Kopi_Red
Says the guy who just got into MTBing a year and a half ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by NW_SKIER
Local bike shop has no large smugglers for me to demo. For this I am thankful.
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Update:
Been riding the Sentinel since May. I’m chugging the SBG koolaid.
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You may have already exhausted the options but shorter stem, slide the seat a little forward, and wider bars all can help. You lose reach with the seat sliding and shorter stem but the wider bars give you some reach back. Possible to do a little adjust at each one of those without any negative. I prefer low 30’s mm stems, but some don’t like them for some reason. It will help control wheel flop. Wider bar will get the reach back at a 2 to 1 ratio(20mm additional bar length and 10mm off the stem give you roughly the same reach). If that makes the bar wider on the downs than your preference you can adjust your hands in a bit. Wider bar has been the singlespeeders climbing secret/necessity before the wide bars where all the rage because of their added leverage for climbing. You may want to start with just sliding the seat forward in the rails as it’s free. It’ll both help the climbing at put you over the front a bit more on the climb so you’ll get that seated traction and control the steering easier. On the down the seat will be out of the way as well. That’s what I’m doing today. I’m at about a 75 degree seat angle but I’d like to try it a bit steeper and I’m probably going to add 10mm travel to my fork so that should even things outQuote:
Originally Posted by gravitylover
If you're falling to the inside, move your butt to the outside of the turn, this will lead the bike. Also, bend your outside elbow, which will get your weight to the outside and again, lean the bike.Quote:
Originally Posted by grinch
Your bike is not too slack.
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I picked up the Sentinel NX last week on sale. I’m loving it, it’s the best pedaling bike I’ve ever owned. I could go out all day on it no problem. On the downhill sections, it’s pretty damn fast. I bet I could ride park with it, and only feel out of place on the gnarliest trails. It’s not too cushy, not too progressive, Transitions version of horst link feels really well balanced and provides a boatload of traction both up and down. The term I’m about to use is overused, but it sincerely climbs like a billy goat up techy steep climbs.
I’m 6’2”, 34” inseam, 77” reach, and ride the Large frame. Some people recommended XL, but I rode both and prefer the Large. It’s a big bike, the wheelbase is almost the same as modern DH bikes.
The smuggler was amazing too. If you dont need or want a big bike, the smuggler is the way to go. I would feel better sizing up to the XL on the Smuggler, more so than on the bigger Sentinel.
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I fucking love my Snuggler.
I bought a medium carbon this spring. I’m right in between sizes, but have regretted going large on my last 2 frames before I got a used medium pre-sbg Patrol Al last year. I just have way more fun on medium bikes and most geo has finally caught up.
I did swap the 40mm stem I started with for a 50mm. The fit, steering and balance of the bike improved significantly.
Longer frames and shorter stems is not always the answer.
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Even though these bikes are super long, sizing up didnt feel nearly as bad as it looked on paper. I could have gone either way honestly, neither was “too big” nor “too small”. Transitions size chart is on the money IMO.
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Kinda sorta been looking at one of these to replace my XC bike. Thoughts as an all-day ride, long/steep climbs, XC type bike?Quote:
Originally Posted by joetron
I'd love to demo one. I'm curious how well it handles high speed rough terrain, a la CMG below Mojave. I'm too afraid to actually try one though because I'm afraid I'd like it and I need to squeeze a couple more years out of what I have now (tallboy ltc).Quote:
Originally Posted by bagtagley
I am amazed the large isn't too small for you. I just test rode a large Guerrilla Gravity with numbers that about match an XL transition and it felt too small. Still planning on test riding a sentinel but likely going to go with an XL GG Smash 515 reach and 670 stack for my lanky 6'3"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuse
The 475mm reach of the large is the longest I have ever ridden. 1247mm wheelbase is almost a DH bike. For a 140mm bike, I dont need anything larger.
In no way, shape, or form is this bike too small for me. It fits perfeclty. The XL wasnt too big, but it felt ever so slightly off, whereas the L felt perfect.
Transition told me to go with the Large frame too, when I talked to them and told them what I’m after. Their sizing chart is perfect, so if you’re in between sizes, you can truly go either way based on your preferences.
Everyone else, besides Transition, told me to go XL. I’m not into this new fad to go huge on bikes. Nothing about the L, on paper or riding it, is too short for me. The L is bigger than most XL bikes from a few years ago, besides the seat tube length.
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I rode both a MD Patrol and a MD Megatrail recently. On paper the reach of the GG is 15mm longer in reach than the Transition (465mm vs. 450mm) and 30mm taller in stack (635mm vs 605mm). Both bikes had 40mm stems on them. On dirt, the Megatrail did not feel larger than the Patrol. If anything, it felt maybe a tiny bit shorter. Can't tell you why. I also rode a LG Norco Sight (449mm reach and 50mm stem) and it felt larger than either the Megatrail and Patrol.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlh
Can't say how it relates to actual sitting on the bike fit, but GG has always said that their sizing is shifted. So, a medium is a typical large, etc.
Stop limiting your potential in favor of dumb stuff like a budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
I test rode a medium GG Trail Pistol last weekend, and as someone on the bottom end of the size range (5'-8", 30" inseam, +2" ape index), the cockpit fit felt perfect. Bike was set up with 40mm stem, 750mm bars (too narrow), 170mm cranks. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to get a 150mm dropper low enough due to my stumpy legs, but I still had about 1" between the top of the ST and the bottom of the KS dropper. The only felt that felt kinda funky was that I felt much higher up than I do on either my Chameleon (also with 29er wheels, but lower BB height) or my Nomad 3 (27.5 wheels but same BB height). I may have had the seat slightly too high still - didn't spend a ton of time fiddling with cockpit since it was someone else's bike. I'd rate the pedaling at or above an Ibis, and descending step downs felt really confidence inspiring due to the super high stack. I want a Smash so very, very badly right now.
The owner of the bike says he regularly rides Transition demos out of his friend's shop, and that they pedal much worse than GG, and are typically about 2 lbs heavier.
It just skips over that stuff. It’s so nimble and poppy and easy to change directions, as long as you’re not totally blinded by dust and can kind of pick a line and avoid the tombstones, it’s amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
As far as long days with big climbs...for smoother stuff I flick a switch, but for any other normal trail climbing I think it does great fully active.
I haven’t touched my Patrol in over a month, I’ve got serious new bike-itis. This is my first 29er, so it’s been a blast getting it figured out.
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Life is short, don't let a couple years go by if you're not fully enamored with the Tallboy.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Haha love it - QFT. Except Tallboy = (fill in the blank skis, bike, whatever)Quote:
Originally Posted by panchosdad
I don't even know how I can argue with this logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by panchosdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagtagley
My experience was limited to the Smuggler. The Smuggler was second favorite bike on my "demo circuit." I liked it so much, I rode it 2x, just to be sure I wasn't trying to like it. My favorite bike was the new Pivot FB29. These two bike have vastly different suspension (type and numbers), so why would I like both?Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Easy: They are both BIG bikes. I am 6'4, 225 with gear and I have super-long monkey arms. Both are long bikes...both have reach of ~50 in XL. Both are also sturdy, beefy frames; especially for the Smuggler: it looks and feels like it can take repeated beatings. The length and stiffness provides a stable ride, but also just fit a large long guy like myself. However, despite the length, I believe (and I'm no expert), that the short chainstays (<17) and offset forks combine to give a poppy feel that also minimizes wheel flop and problems with tight turns.
For ZigZag: My experience was that the Smuggler handles high speed rough terrain very well. BUT, it's the kind of bike I can get in trouble on...I mean that in a good way. You have to remind yourself that there's not 150mm out back b/c it handles stuff beyond its suspension numbers. Never rode the LTC, but I'm not a fan of VPP V1 or V2 (I've heard the new version is improved, but haven't rode), so I'm not a very good reference b/c I'd take either Smuggler or FB29 over the LTC.
For Bagtag: I didn't see where you wrote what your current bike is, but make no mistake: the Smuggler WILL NOT replace an XC bike. It's heavier, burlier, and rowdier. At 225, a pound in the frame is no big deal, but if your 5'6" and 145lbs, I could see you saying: this bike just weighs too much. Climbing: it preferred grinding up a hill at a steady pace...no problems getting up anything, but no one will ever mistake it for an S-Works Epic. But, unlike a lot of XC bikes, you will not be scared shitless going downhill.
Don't know if that helps at all, but that's my experience.
Get a trail bike that you mesh well with going downhill. The uphill will take care of itself. Its amazing how fast your fitness will improve if forced to.
i went from a 26" 3x10 geared trail bike to a 29" 1x10 heavy enduro bike that was NOT geared for the terrain i typically ride (steep long logging road climbs to get to descents), and the first two times i went out on it i had to stop and rest or push multiple times and was thinking twice about my big new purchase. After 4 rides, i was back to being able to ride up with no stops (barely). After a 3 weeks, i was riding up at the same perceived effort level as before.
Point is, your body will acclimate to the effort required to go uphill. The bike will never acclimate to the geometry and suspension you want to ride downhill.
https://youtu.be/jrddRIk6_n0
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This may be true, until you reach a certain age. Then you start looking for every edge you can find to get yourself uphill, and figure your slowly diminishing skills will get you down.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
I've heard that when you get your first social security check, you're automatically issued an ebike.Quote:
Originally Posted by panchosdad
I feel like that is a really old age though. I see a bunch of older (50-60) year old folks in incredible cardio shape, and while they do rip on the downhills as well, i would think they would prefer their proverbial "cushion" geared toward the descending where forgiveness is health inducing haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by panchosdad
I guess my point is that it is much more common for an older person to still have a big engine, but much less common for them to have great strength, reactions, and resiliency. so i would think they would handicap their ups for a safer more fun down. IDK.
Just another reason to pickup the Firebird 29: fine going uphill, no reaction time needed going down!Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
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That’s my theory . Self preservation on the downs and still be playful with the stiff ol bones. Just put some easier gearing for the upQuote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Anyone else been on both the 2018 Patrol and 2018 Process 153 27.5?
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coming off an XL Evil Following to the XL aluminum Sentinel, I am having way more fun on the Sentinel. It took a bit to get the nose to go where I wanted on tight steep climbs but its fine now and the downhill couldn't be more fun.
Yes. I thought they were more similar than different. Descending the Kona feels a little more planted and just wants to truck through stuff, whereas the Patrol is more poppy and playful and wants to boost off everything (while still being plenty stable).Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuse
Climbing I thought the Process felt like it had a fair amount of pedal bob and the 2018 $5k build didn't have a shock with a "trail" mode (open mode was too open and climb mode was too stiff). The 2019 comes with an RCT shock which should help. I thought the Patrol climbed a little better overall.
I pulled the trigger on a Smuggler almost two years after starting this thread. Still have never ridden one so hopefully I like it. LBS had a 2019 X01 demo on sale for cheap enough that I felt like I couldn't pass it up.
You will like it. I have 450mi now on my Patrol and the thing fkn crushes. Super happy with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Tell me more about Patrol, high on my list to replace sb5.5, progressive? Some people said hard to run an x2? 2.8 clearance?Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
The only thing I don't like about my patrol is I feel guilty for holding the bike back do to my lack of skills
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Can't tell you if an X2 would work well or not. I've only run the stock DPX2. However, Transition has posted a few employee rides and I've seen a couple running coils on Patrols, so I'd take that to mean that a more linear shock isn't out of the question. I also can't say anything about how well 2.8s fit, I'm not into clown tires.Quote:
Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac
I can say that this quote is pretty great:
The thing is incredibly planted and stable when you want it to be, but also ready and willing to pop off everything. I suck at jumping, but am far more comfortable jumping the Patrol than anything else I've ridden. The rear suspension is not quite as plush and smooth through chunder as some bikes, but the geo keeps everything super stable. Bike mag said something to the effect of "the Patrol is the bike you want if you want to ride hard through any terrain, but still want to be able to feel the trail under you" which I think is accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
It climbs competently enough for what it is. Wheel flop is there, but manageable. It's not the most efficient peddler, but the bit of bob is counteracted by having loads of traction in technical terrain. I have limited mobility in my low back due to an SI injury so I find the more upright climbing position to be very comfortable. Perhaps the biggest downside for climbing is the weight - even the carbon frame is a tank - but at the same time, I'm not at all worried about breaking it.
I wanted a bike that could ride literally everything, from long alpine rides with lots of climbing to lift served DH tech trails. The Patrol does that. The local trails here are steep and chunky, generally long ups and long downs, and the Patrol is great for that. If I rode somewhere with more rolling or smoother terrain, I'd want something else.
Thanks man! Good talk. See you out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
I recently got a Sentinel after considering a Patrol. I love the geometry. It pedals fine uphill. With the shock set up more for trails rather than chunk, I find no need to touch the lever. And on more rooty or rocky climbs I like to leave it open also. They do run heavy, but they are built like tanks.
My only gripe with the Sentinel is that it is only barely progressive (~10% depending on what analysis you look at), while the Patrol is more like 25%. Coupled with the shorter travel, I find it harder to have a perfect do-anything tune for my shock on the Sentinel. Either I run higher pressure and the biggest token to combat bottom out on mid-sized jumps at the cost of suppleness over smaller bumps, or run lower pressure and smaller tokens for a more suppleness and feel a solid thunk every time I hit a jump more than like 2'. I'm very average size (170 lbs) so it's not like I'm some clyde. Because of this, I'm lately wishing I'd gone with the Patrol so I could run a DHX2 or X2. If I want to run a coil on the Sentinel, I'm stuck with either an 11-6 or Storia.
^ I hear ya,
I wrote to Transition today because I had heard that the Patrol actually wasn’t a good jive for the X2/Coil/more linear rear sus. Having said that, the X2 got a change with some better bottom out resistance for 2019+ so that might have helped, and as Adrenalated mention, tons of their pros run coils, just weird that at least early on in the Patrol run they were actively advising against it.