Summit Daily 3 Part Series on Skier Deaths in CO

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

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That is sig worthy if I've ever seen one that was.

Its probably more about the gapers who go to Keystone than it is about the runs or terrain or how they manage the thing. So in your world all the gapers should have ready access to data that says that Keystone has a higher rate of fatal crashes = "deadly" so they'll all decide to go to Vail and then suddenly the numbers will switch to Vail being the "deadly" mountain.

The reality is that skiing has inherent dangers but that its a lot less dangerous than many other things that we do.

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Driving your car to any of these ski areas is much more dangerous than skiing there.

1 in 6700 vs 1 in 1M chance of dying

Going to a fucking dance party is more dangerous.

1 in 100,000!!!

Damned someone better write an article that the dangers of dance parties needs to be disclosed to the public. "if only we had known that dance parties were so dangerous, maybe we could have convinced Patty to go to a rock concert instead of dancing!"

No, I'm just curious. Why do people die, and where? Simple. And, please, one more "skiing is dangerous and you can die", and I'm grabbing a large stick.

I agree that trees are trees everywhere, and there are always going to be people who ski past their abilities, or just get unlucky, but I also firmly believe that there should be complete transparency about these accidents.

Except for a very few outliers, the resorts are really not complicit, and transparency will lead to education and reform if needed.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

No, I'm just curious. Why do people die, and where? Simple. And, please, one more "skiing is dangerous and you can die", and I'm grabbing a large stick.

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People die because they hit hard objects at high speed.

Or from having a heart attack out of the great feast of bunny's big stick...

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Originally Posted by Summit

People die because they hit hard objects at high speed.

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Are you sure about that. Can you back that up with studies?

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Groomers kill. They should only groom cat tracks and green runs. Skied keystone against my will last weekend. Scary shit. Icy as fuck, double fall lines, bottle necks. Multiple trails merging at a time, and crowded full of "advanced intermediates" who think they have to go as fast as possible at all times. God I hate that shit anymore. That is not skiing to me, it is surviving a trip down the hill. Not surprised at all that people die regularly under those circumstances.

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Double fall-lines = 1/2 the waiting?

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Originally Posted by Elkhound Odin

Gustafson knew where the guy hit the tree and didn't go back to help once she realized there was a problem? WTF? You ski in the trees with a buddy for this reason. Maybe they aren't right next to you and you lose visual contact, but you don't abandon them after you think something is wrong.

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I don't know, 100' is a pretty long uphill slog.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Are you sure about that. Can you back that up with studies?

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I have not done a lit review but I am in possession of enough anecdotes that they qualify as data for my needs in this discussion.

Pretty good summary here with source references at the bottom of the page.

Skiing (or even riding) didn't make the list though.

http://www.romans322.com/daily-death...statistics.php

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Now, try using that statement about backcountry avi risk.
I've read many an account of mistakes made in the backcountry by lucky survivors, and non profit agencies that immediately jump in and study those accidents are the reason we know as much as we do. Why not in bounds? Just, you know, for kicks? Afraid of what you'll learn? Why?

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Afraid of what we'll learn? Why?--are you out of your mind? I'm afraid to find out why people die in bounds? Seriously? I know why people die inbounds. They hit trees and other inanmimate objects at speed (speed meaning 20MPH or higher) and occasionally they are hit by other people big enough and fast enough to kill them. And they have heart attacks and strokes. Or ski into tree wells. The rare inbounds slide. They huck something too big or land too flat or hit a rock. But mainly they hit trees.

You cite avalanche statistics and reports. Not comparable. The mechanisms behind avalanches are complex, the decisions people make skiing in avalanche terrain are complex, studying these things might potentially help people understand and avoid accidents. We already know what we need to know to prevent inbounds deaths--double safety fences along the sides of runs and around lift towers, prohibit tree skiing, prohibit hucking, close runs when they get firm, limit the number of people on a run at a given time to avoid crowding. Maybe eliminate grooming altogether (see below). Is this your idea of how the sport should be? How sad for you.

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Originally Posted by Summit

The 5 o'clock news will pick it up:

"Tonight on FOX31: Hitting this simple common hard object at high speed can kill you! But ski areas don't want you know! Find out what it is after the break!"

Anchor: "Thanks for staying tuned to FOX! Now, Teresa with our main investigative expose: TREES: FRIEND OR FOE?"

Teresa: "Though they turn snow-melting-CO2 into breathable oxygen, trees have been secretly murdering skiers and their crimes have been covered up by the ski areas... why you may ask? Is it because the ski areas are so afraid of global warming that they consider killer trees a necessary evil? We asked professor Den I. Dob-Vious of Colorado Christian University and W.R. Hearst III, owner of the Scummit Daily Skews."

Prof. Dob-Vyus: "Well these ski areas are run by a bunch of deluded liberals who believe in so called 'human caused global warming.' They actually think that trees make snow. But we know that only Jesus can make snow."

Hearst III: "Well not sure how Jesus got into this, but..."

Prof Dob-Vious: "Jesus is in everything?"

Hearst III: "I think I'll have a reporter do a 29 part series about how Jesus is getting into things uninvited... it will sell some real estate ads!"

Teresa: "Professor, do you think the ski areas are guilty of something?"

Prof Dob-Vious: "They are going to burn in hell... and let me tell you... there is NO snow down there... just salt peter, Hitler, and Democrats!"

Hearst III: "... and a 9 parter on how global warming might cause hell to freeze over... this is great!"

Teresa: "Uh... OK... that's all we have time for... up next Donald Trump flips on another issue when he discovers that pretending that bad is good doesn't actually make it good."

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LOL

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Groomers kill. They should only groom cat tracks and green runs. Skied keystone against my will last weekend. Scary shit. Icy as fuck, double fall lines, bottle necks. Multiple trails merging at a time, and crowded full of "advanced intermediates" who think they have to go as fast as possible at all times. God I hate that shit anymore. That is not skiing to me, it is surviving a trip down the hill. Not surprised at all that people die regularly under those circumstances.

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Nothing quite like making careful turns down a crowded icy groomer and have some gaper flying past you skiing sideways, in the backseat, with zero chance of turning if someone is in his way.