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Cast 1 was essentially an adapter system, I seem to remember a lot of problems with that whole adapter concept ?
I think Cast decided to eliminate those^^ problems by selling "A working binding" period ... smart IMO
I don't think you can you buy half a Marker Kingpin or a Marker p18 either ?
Im not near so kind so I had to laughQuote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
They may both be touring bindings but they do very different things, if dropping big lines on big sksi with plug boots is what you wana do Cast is your no compromise choice but for light duty an AT boot/Kingpin make more sense ... Its like comparing apples and oranges
Well, of course you're right about that. I was focused on the "something for nothing" mentality.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
It's not as apples/oranges as one might assume. The equivalent touring weight of the two is key. Yes, you have to stuff a pair of toes in your pack, so it's not a mulit-lap tool, so they're different use-cases from that perspective. From a weight perspective however, not so much.
... Thom
My sister was online/phone IT tech support and their offline term for the customer was "End loser"
Its not just the something for nothing its about shit plain not working cuz there were just way more things for the end loser to fuckup with Cast 1
I predict way less problems with Cast 2
My cast 1's with Solomon still work as new although I have to reapply some loctite on the toe height adjust screw. I've been adjusting it between my alpine lupo and touring lupo so the old loctite is gone so it loosens throughout the day ATM. New system does look better in every way though. Really looks like they've crossed the t's and dotted all the i's on this one. Still would be nice to remove the heel like the toe and maybe a lighter version option without the steel look housings , for us old fucks that stay much closer to the ground than Lars/Silas .
I'm guessing i could put the heel on inserts and have inserts for a tech heel for longer bc days? Maybe the toe piece would be too far forward or maybe the toe isn't designed to be releaseable in ski mode like regular tech toes?
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but you really overthought what I said. I'm not saying that maggots don't deserve their money for dedication and effort or that the product is bad in any way. It's just that a very small niche production got even smaller. One of the coolest things with CAST-1 was that you obviously got some parts of this equation - alpine binding or/and dynafit binding and you just needed plates to make this setup work. Pretty easy and you have such a variety of what you can do with your quiver. And last but not least - if you dislike CAST-1, you can just unmount it and sell the plates. But what you get with CAST-2 is a setup with machined dynafit-like toe and machined P18 toe that are completely useless outside CAST-2 setup. Very limiting. Plus it's expensive. Plus a significant part of the sum won't reward maggots but will go straight to Look.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
IMO, people expected CAST just to do a troubleshooting for the first version. The price for this would have been compatibility with only one alpine binding - Pivot. It appeared that the sacrifice is much higher. But once again - all this is just my POV, not trying to set minds here. I'm still excited for the product and looking forward for first reviews.
I agree with this ^^^. I've been thinking about it a lot and what my needs are. I've decided that CAST can keep my $20 and I wish them the best but just not what I need
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of Maggots suddenly cried out in terror.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
and 12.6K posts lose their validity.
shame.
Why not just think of it as though Cast just made a whole new binding. It just happens to be similar in some ways to a p18.
But it's no longer an upgrade kit to other bindings.
Think about it as it is. Then are you happy with the idea? I am. So I'm ordering a pair.
up til past 3am last nite nun the less there must be a sword lying around here I can thro myself onQuote:
Originally Posted by skimaxpower
Not the least bit hurt. I have thick skin. I had trouble understanding what you were trying to say, and I didn't have my tea leaves handy, so I made a best guess ... admittedly in shotgun style.Quote:
Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk
No doubt, at some point in the life-cycle of CAST-1, they evaluated how well it met their design goals and what could be improved: skiability/tourability, use and handling in the field, reliability/durability, ease of manufacture, modularity (your concern), etc.
I think if you free yourself from the Solly-fit/Dyna-look concept, it will make more sense. The product isn't evolving that way. I think Judo Chop! said it best:
If the product is bomber, it will develop a reputation and grow within its admittedly small market segment and Salomon aficionados will happily adopt it. They might lose a few sales to people who want to adapt their own bindings, but sometimes those sales are the ones that cost you more than you ever expected. Ask me how I know ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Judo Chop!
Cheers,
Thom
Does anyone have a link to a video of the new version? I remember when V.1 came out CAST had some nice product videos on their site, but I don't see anything like that for v.2.
Thanks, just what I was looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
Well designed product. Who warranties the modified look toepiece? Look or cast?Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
This new CAST system looks great except you are limited to Alpine DIN or WTR soles. So no go with ISO 9523 soles like the Salomon MTN Lab boots. :(
Regarding AFD...
"This part is made by LOOK to make the Pivot or FKS 18 binding WTR compatible. You have to unscrew the toe piece from the ski to swap out the AFD's. The WTR norm is based on the ISO 9253 with added AFD's to make the boots release properly. The vulcans are ISO 9253 so they will fit into the bindings with the right geometry but may not release as well as a full WTR boot because they have different material and flatness at the AFD , (binding contact point)."
As has been pointed out many times by both myself and others, many touring boots with ISO 9253 soles DO NOT fit in WTR bindings. I don't give a fuck what the spec theoretically says, they don't all fit, due to not enough height adjustment. That's why Salomon changed the first generation Guardian "WTR" binding to the Guardian "WTR MNC." The MNC version fits heavily rockered touring boots such as Maestrale RS, Mercury/Vulcan, etc. The original WTR version does not.
I have not specifically tried the Pivot 14 WTR or the new CAST WTR binding with boots like this, nor do I have any experience with the MTN Lab so can't comment on the fit of any of those. But don't assume that any ISO 9253 sole will fit in any binding designed around the WTR spec, because that is not accurate.
Agree with 'adrenalated'. I personally would not use an ISO 9253 boot in a WTR binding that has a fixed AFD, even if it appeared to fit. Assuming the binding has enough adjustment range to adjust the toe height properly, the issue still remains with the soft rubber on the boot sole interfacing with a fixed AFD. This is why most (all?) MNC bindings use a moveable/sliding AFD.
As for the Look P18/CAST system, it's a double whammy because there is no toe height adjustment AND the AFD is fixed. They are able to do WTR because of the hard plastic section on the toe area of WTR boots.
Note: It is great that CAST made the Alpine DIN and WTR AFDs easily swappable without having to unscrew the toe piece as you would normally need to do on a regular P18.
Does anybody really use Vulcans or mtnlabs in a P18 toe piece and altho that heel piece will probably work better than most alpine bindings with a thicker boot AT heel that is not the boot heel it was designed for either
Is a mtnlab owner seriously the focus group CAST was aiming for, wasn't CAST designed to allow a user the ability to tour up with any alpine boot ( but probably big & stiff as fuck ) the user has modded with a tech fitting ??
A lot of options these days. Be great with my lupo c ti. My cast 1 with sth is working good but the toe height and wings loosen and need readjusting . Blue loctite on the toe height screw works for a while but the wings need adjustment daily. Plate the tech toe is mounted on is getting more sloppy too. Cast 2 would solve all that and more. Lange free tour , Cochise, guide pro , atomic xtd are other good options too probably. I don't think they have rocketed soles. But then again, I've run tr9's in 997's and lived
Totally agree. That's why I switched from Sollys to Look. No toe height or wing adjustments to worry about. And all the boots you mentioned are currently the top choices in my mind for a quiver of 1 boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by grinch
Well, this is a change in strategy:
Quote:
Customers must purchase their alpine bindings separately and send them to Cast for the installation of our components.
Couple new (I think) pics on the product page as well.Quote:
Price for the kit plus installation
MSRP: $350.00
Special Pre-Order Price: $305.00
I wonder if they will accept used bindings for conversion? That could be a good thing for a lot of mags.
You could see it headed this way. Much as I'm sure the extra $$$ of being a value-added seller of Look bindings appealed to them, the idea of floating the cash to stock the inventory must have been prohibitive.
If there's a structural difference in the modded parts of the Pivot 18 vs. Pivot 14 toes, I might be in a bit of a conundrum. I run about 8-1/2 on my toes, and would hesitate to get into a binding with a minimum DIN setting of 8. The 15 was really appealing. It might be time to start hunting for softer springs.
... Thom
Don't see any model but the 18 working with the new toe pedestal, 14 is out.
I wouldn't worry a bit about running it at 8.5 or even 8. Trust the folks at DIN.
What concerns me isn't so much "normal" situations (I didn't make that clear). Once or twice while recovering from an injury, I dialed down one toe piece into the 7 range.
I'll bet the equivalent to Pivot-15 springs can be had. It's been way too long since I've had a Look binding in my hands however, and I don't know if replacing a spring is as simple (no proprietary tools) as replacing a Dynafit spring.
Shimano road brake levers come to mind. Shops have no problems tearing down Campy Ergo shifter levers, but they won't touch a Shimano.
I'll watch this unfold with great interest.
... Thom
Take an 18 and count the number of turns (or partial turns) it takes to increase one DIN setting. If you want to be ocd, count turns from 8-18 and divide by ten. Drop back to exactly 8, and count the number of turns to the point where the spring no longer has any preload. There's how far you can go below 8, since binding springs are linear. You know the mechanism can go lower than 8 without internal friction becoming an issue, because the Pivot 15 exists.
I'll bet you can drop down to at least 7 before running out of spring, and you could always have a shop test the release to confirm it.
That's just too simple ;-) I'll bet I can get down to at least 7.5 if not 7, which would give me all the comfort range I'd (hopefully never) need.
... Thom
I got the email update this morning, that confirmed what my best guess was - the sourcing agreement with LOOK fell through.
Looks like they will be willing to do the conversion with not new bindings, so that's good... They also mention the possibility of a 2nd ski kit. However the 14 DIN version looks to be DOA.
I'm sure the Look attorneys shot this down as they have no control over the modification of their bindings and any resulting injuries and lawsuits.Quote:
Originally Posted by snoboy
That being said, I'm excited that the price tag drops significantly with anybody holding a pair of P18s. The additional toe plate to add to a second pair of skis also brings in a lot of options.
The availability of a second toe plate is a real deal sweetener. Much as I'm not a fan of frequent binding swaps with inserts, I'd definitely order a second toe plate (mounting the heel with inserts).Quote:
Originally Posted by tenB
... Thom
My original CAST plates are only one season old, and I still love them. I'm going to continue to run them next season but I'm very curious to see how people like the new and improved version.
I still think the CAST system is the only AT system that doesn't compromise performance on climbing or skiing.
Stoked to see pictures of skis mounted with new CAST systems in this thread come November.
Will springs out of a set pivot 14 work in pivot 18
CAST might be able to convert an old P/FKS 155. Or follow 1000 Oaks method above for backing the rv down to under 8. But really, if you routinely run an rv under 8, are you really skiing hard enough to need a CAST system?
That's a fair question. Probably the only reason I can see for this is durability - for a ski you plan on primarily skiing inbounds but would like to have a sidecountry option with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
... Thom
Looks like this guy has a couple pairs of 15 DIN Pivots for those interested in running an RV < 8 with the new CAST system.
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...sets-of-PIVOTS
As long as they're race toes like the pivot 18 I think Lars can convert then the same as Pivot 18s.
Does any one know if cast system is in production or when they will start.
They are not standard toe mount screws. I'll see if I can get you an answer for which screws if is exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Thanks, I shot an email off to Cody overnight. I realize that the shoulder screws are different, and was interested in the thread profile tapped into the ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
Edit-1: I just heard back from Cody. Standard binding screw threads. That was easy!
Edit-2: I mentioned that I'd likely run another pair of Looks on my skis before receiving the CAST conversion back from them, and Cody made two comments:
(1) Don't use inserts (BF/QK) on the heel either (I thought only the toe had compatibility issues with threaded inserts).
(2) Helicoil all of the holes since I'll be R&R'ing the bindings. That makes sense, and I was already planning on helicoiling the toes.
I'm not sure why the heel would be incompatible with Binding Freedom/Quiver Killer. I'll wait until I have the whole deal in front of me to see for myself.
The pre-order deal is still active. $20 to get in. Cody also commented that as of now, the WTR AFD is an option (not an add-on price).
... Thom