Too Many Tourists In Colorado

There has got to be a balance imo. My biggest issue is the segment (usually chamber and marketing folks) who think there are never enough tourists in town (especially in summer) and will never consider that maybe adding another event to a busy week / weekend is not a good idea.

I think summer is becoming more of an issue because many of winter tourists visit without vehicles due to all of the seasonal flights, lodging shuttle buses, and less roaming since they are going to ski. In the summer everyone has a car, so traffic and crowding in smaller towns can be far worse even with less tourists than in the winter.

As I alluded to earlier, I think weed has something to do with it, and songs like this...


I almost joined the Navy in 1987 because of one of their other songs.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Hey man, I'm just pointing out this was Hugh's schtick. Matter of fact that's all I point out regarding him. Did he hit on your wife or something?

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Search for posts by you that mention Hugh. There's like 9 or 10 in the last 2 months alone, pining for Hugh to see or comment on some post. He's like some icon for you; 10 years from now you'll still be sucking his cock!

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

I'm looking forward to occupying Disneyland next month!
my crew is on a mission to crush the magic kingdom zone

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I'll be rocking disneyland on Oct 9th!

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Originally Posted by KQ

John Denver is now part of Colorado and being trod upon by all those tourists.

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Maybe not. By now, maybe he wound up at the bottom of Lake Powell, after all those seasons of run off.

The idea that you regulate visitors is hilarious. As mentioned, the true challenge is how do you pay for all the services consumed and infrastructure used by visitors that do not pay property tax? Winter Park and Fraser both have sales tax over 10% plus hotel and lodging tax plus a 1% real estate transfer tax. The problem to me is that the BLM and FS have no money and the forests are getting trashed.

I honestly think that as a community, we need to do a better job at setting expectations for the behavior of our visitors. Many people give them a free pass because they bring their wallets. Somehow it is OK for visitors to speed, litter, be drunk and obnoxious, etc. while residents are held to a different standard.

For me the challenge is the busyness of the non-peak times. As mentioned, their has been a big push to get budget travelers here during Oct., Nov., May etc. Friday has been the new Saturday forever. Now everyday is the new Friday. Thankfully Sunday afternoon is the new Monday.

I'm not complaining, there are still pretty of places go get away. I have to work my ass off to afford what I've got, but the wage scale vs. expenses (real estate) is still pretty reasonable around here.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Search for posts by you that mention Hugh. There's like 9 or 10 in the last 2 months alone, pining for Hugh to see or comment on some post. He's like some icon for you; 10 years from now you'll still be sucking his cock!

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Sounds like you've given it some serious thought. Get back to me when you've parsed the rest of my 11,000 posts.

I wasn't aware you and I had beef. But if you need to feel better by coming at me over a well-placed name drop (while complimenting your post) to get you through Monday, then by all means man.

Could be worse. If no one wanted to go to CO, it probably would because it turned into a nuclear wasteland full of radioactive fallout. But looking on the bright side; blower radioactive pow face shots!!!

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Sounds like you've given it some serious thought. Get back to me when you've parsed the rest of my 11,000 posts.

I wasn't aware you and I had beef. But if you need to feel better by coming at me over a well-placed name drop (while complimenting your post) to get you through Monday, then by all means man.

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I don't have a beef with you, settle down old man! I do notice when people praise that asshole (I happen to think this place has been way better since he left), and I have noticed you doing so on numerous occasions (I only searched because you challenged the notion that you mention him a lot). Sorry if my salty language offended your delicate sensibilities. :)

can anyone comment on telluride in the summer vs winter? I was there in prime time ski season this past year and didn't think it was out of control touristy at all. lots of people yea, but not really for a major ski destination. I will say I don't think I could have handled staying at the resort.

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Originally Posted by east or bust

can anyone comment on telluride in the summer vs winter?

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Warmer, sometimes less snow.

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Originally Posted by east or bust

can anyone comment on telluride in the summer vs winter? I was there in prime time ski season this past year and didn't think it was out of control touristy at all. lots of people yea, but not really for a major ski destination. I will say I don't think I could have handled staying at the resort.

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There is a festival every single weekend.

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

Wyoming is next, saw it on the side of a city bus.

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i had that bus blown up. they went below fiddy

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

You mean the people who were born here and are either the:

a) descendants of recent transplants

- or -

b) descendants of people who murdered the Native Americans who lived here and stole their land?

No one has any right to complain about people moving anywhere - especially not in Colorado. This land is your land, this land is my land. If you don't like it, go fuck yourself. Northern Nevada is beautiful this time of year and you'll probably have the place to yourself for a while.

See you on I-70.

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You are right of course. Still--when some 20 year old moves to the mountains, calls himself a local, and then wants to shut the door behind them I don't have much sympathy. If growth and crowds are inevitable the options are to fight against it and lose or to try to control growth with zoning and develpment policies that create truly affordable housing and to require development and transient visitors to fund infrastructure improvements that mitigate the impacts--especially mass transit. Just one example--at Mammoth Lakes people going to backcountry trailheads have been required to take a shuttle bus for many years.

Benny--we're all tourists on this planet.

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Originally Posted by AK47bp

John Denver's full of shit.

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Actually he is full of formaldihide oar a pile of ashes.

Weed tourists are hard on the taco trucks.

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Originally Posted by east or bust

can anyone comment on telluride in the summer vs winter? I was there in prime time ski season this past year and didn't think it was out of control touristy at all. lots of people yea, but not really for a major ski destination. I will say I don't think I could have handled staying at the resort.

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Busy is relative here. It's true there have been like 5 summers of increasing summer tourism but hotel occupancy rates are still relatively low compared to what most consider busy. The problem more is that during peak times there just aren't enough workers so everyone in town is busting their ass when it's super busy. The valleys are so low that the current workforce is fine but something will probably come to a head soon if the short steep peaks continue. I guess one way to handle it is just keep raising prices til the numbers come down during those periods.

To be honest I live in mountain village and don't venture over into telluride much. The town is much busier than mv all summer long. To me it's like a tiny little slice of an expensive ass city, nowhere to park, crowded, not really why I live here at all especially now that I stopped drinking.. no reason to go over there. Although having pearl jam come thru this summer plus neil in a few weeks has me stoked.

So basically it boils down to more housing/parking for commuters or less tourists.. or maybe a little of both is the solution.

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

I'm looking forward to occupying Disneyland next month!
my crew is on a mission to crush the magic kingdom zone

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Dude.

Too crowded.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

The idea that you regulate visitors is hilarious. As mentioned, the true challenge is how do you pay for all the services consumed and infrastructure used by visitors that do not pay property tax? Winter Park and Fraser both have sales tax over 10% plus hotel and lodging tax plus a 1% real estate transfer tax. The problem to me is that the BLM and FS have no money and the forests are getting trashed.

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I think that is the issue... zero money to the FS/BLM, and the state smiles and takes the 2.9% and puts it in the general fund then spends it all around the state on anything but infrastructure to support tourism. I mean, I guess CO-9 to Breck is slowly becoming 4 lanes.

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I honestly think that as a community, we need to do a better job at setting expectations for the behavior of our visitors. Many people give them a free pass because they bring their wallets. Somehow it is OK for visitors to speed, litter, be drunk and obnoxious, etc. while residents are held to a different standard.

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There are literally signs when you come through the tunnels "Welcome to Colorado's Playground" what kind of mindset does that engender? It is like saying "please deposit brain and self control here." But that is a universal problem. Tourists act like jackasses everywhere on earth because VACATION BRO! SPRING BREAK WOO!

I think this is truly a minor minor issue unless you are a fed up service industry employee.

I simply used it as a way to be treated excellently when I travel. I just don't act like the jackasses I see here, makes locals far more welcoming when I travel.

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For me the challenge is the busyness of the non-peak times. As mentioned, their has been a big push to get budget travelers here during Oct., Nov., May etc. Friday has been the new Saturday forever. Now everyday is the new Friday. Thankfully Sunday afternoon is the new Monday.

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To me, this is a bit of the stress point. When you build up a comfortable living and set your life so that you work harder during tourist peaks (or travel away touring tourist peaks) and about having your days off on weekdays and slower season to avoid the crunch, only to find that these times are now experiencing the same problems as the weekends and the main season were just a few years ago... well you start to ask about the payoff and think about moving.

At least, that is what my wife says, and she is Old Goat's holy grail: lifetime native local who works in an industry completely and totally disconnected from tourism in any way. She is getting to where she is bothered by the serious traffic and crowds on many weekdays and the ever shorter offseason.

The problem is that most places one would want to move to have the same problems, or even sparser opportunities for professional employment.

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I'm not complaining, there are still pretty of places go get away. I have to work my ass off to afford what I've got, but the wage scale vs. expenses (real estate) is still pretty reasonable around here.

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I tend to agree. I'm still pretty happy. We have it pretty good; we are lucky.

I do note that it is a little harder to get away. One of the great things about where I am is that it is good for everything and in driving range of places that are actually great. And it used to be few people would drive to those farther away places, but now everyone drives. Summer Example: Late September bumper to bumper all the way up CO9/US40 to Steamboat. Winter Example: Front Rangers no longer hesitate too much about driving to CB or Monarch because it only requires leaving an hour earlier than is required to avoid the I70 traffic. It is more pronounced over the last few years; look who is putting up billboards in Idaho Springs?

But I'll say this, I hope that the extra summer tourism means the bike parks will have more riders meaning longer seasons and more trails built... a man can hope!

Visit Bend has pretty much done the same thing to Central Oregon. Probably not the same scale, but the recreational areas around Bend have seen huge amounts of user growth.

And unfortunately at least a few of the users are not even close to good stewards of the land. Vandalism (one notable event that was caught on camera of a father showing his spawn how to engrave their initials in some FS property), overused wilderness areas (S Sister and Green Lakes trails) will see permitted access in the next 2 years I bet and that doesn't even get into the issues Bend is facing with infrastructure and booming neighborhoods.

All surmountable problems, but there appears to be noticeable tension.


This isn't isolated to Central Oregon though. All outdoor recreational opportunities in Oregon seem to have a huge number of users in the last few years, with enough of them ignoring fences, trampling vegetation, practicing the opposite of Leave No Trace and acting like general shitheads so as to ruin the experience for the rest of this. Part of me thinks this has alot to do with how these places are advertised in the media now: "Best 5 waterfall photos within 45 minutes of PDX!" (see Oneata Gorge, soon to be closed I'm sure).

Have to get that instagram snap to share with the world.

Haven't read the whole thread but a few posts made me think this would be an interesting study on visitors and age to socio-economic level.

Do Millenials, for sake of argument that includes people up to 35 years old, travel/ seek travel or leisure activities more than their parents did when they were that age? I would assume yes then add in the social media element to advertise these areas along with the Outside Magazine effect (best places to live).

Bozeman, Summit County or Bend has always (and will continue to) attract high middle class families from Phoenix, Dallas or Atlanta for Spring Break. My guess is its the added layer of younger travelers and the population increase in Denver and that's how you get to the current situation. But again would make an interesting study.

nothing special to colorado, this is happening anywhere and everywhere

mining is over, paper mills have closed and now it's time for tourism, people are sick of bland chain store suburban life, they take their hard earned time off and want something special

there are trails around my house that are absolute shit shows of people then there are places where you don't see anyone for hours, its in your best interest to read the tourist guide books to know exactly where not to go.

I don't get to deal with tourists much at all, i guess I'm lucky like that, sometimes I answer a dumb question but most of the time I act like I can't hear them

oh yeah

my favorite is the dumb fucks who want to bring the olympics to colorado

how fucking stupid are people?

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Originally Posted by Summit

Says who?

I think that there is a valid discussion to be had about whether the goal should be attracting as many tourists as possible at all times without regards to capacity, sustainability, dilution of experience for all, and impact on the community.

My question is if there is so much money pouring in, where is the infrastructure investment to support the capacity?

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Which infrastructure? And investment by whom?

Our County invests between 48% and 52% of sales tax into our Capital Plan for the General Fund. That just keeps up for repaving roads, chip seals, and general maintenance of bridges, etc. Our open space program is asking for reauthorization, and has done great building bike paths, etc, but the easy and 'cheap' stuff has mostly been done. What's left is several million to pave the last 2 miles of trail, or really spendy property to link things up. We have invested in the largest rural transit system in the US to get our workers to Aspen, etc... but our shortfalls in infrastructure are noticeable. Local government is increasingly asked to subsidize the states highway system.... Infrastructure investment is an issue around the country

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Originally Posted by Summit

I think that is the issue... zero money to the FS/BLM, and the state smiles and takes the 2.9% and puts it in the general fund then spends it all around the state on anything but infrastructure to support tourism. I mean, I guess CO-9 to Breck is slowly becoming 4 lanes.


There are literally signs when you come through the tunnels "Welcome to Colorado's Playground" what kind of mindset does that engender? It is like saying "please deposit brain and self control here." But that is a universal problem. Tourists act like jackasses everywhere on earth because VACATION BRO! SPRING BREAK WOO!

I think this is truly a minor minor issue unless you are a fed up service industry employee.

I simply used it as a way to be treated excellently when I travel. I just don't act like the jackasses I see here, makes locals far more welcoming when I travel.


To me, this is a bit of the stress point. When you build up a comfortable living and set your life so that you work harder during tourist peaks (or travel away touring tourist peaks) and about having your days off on weekdays and slower season to avoid the crunch, only to find that these times are now experiencing the same problems as the weekends and the main season were just a few years ago... well you start to ask about the payoff and think about moving.

At least, that is what my wife says, and she is Old Goat's holy grail: lifetime native local who works in an industry completely and totally disconnected from tourism in any way. She is getting to where she is bothered by the serious traffic and crowds on many weekdays and the ever shorter offseason.

The problem is that most places one would want to move to have the same problems, or even sparser opportunities for professional employment.



I tend to agree. I'm still pretty happy. We have it pretty good; we are lucky.

I do note that it is a little harder to get away. One of the great things about where I am is that it is good for everything and in driving range of places that are actually great. And it used to be few people would drive to those farther away places, but now everyone drives. Summer Example: Late September bumper to bumper all the way up CO9/US40 to Steamboat. Winter Example: Front Rangers no longer hesitate too much about driving to CB or Monarch because it only requires leaving an hour earlier than is required to avoid the I70 traffic. It is more pronounced over the last few years; look who is putting up billboards in Idaho Springs?

But I'll say this, I hope that the extra summer tourism means the bike parks will have more riders meaning longer seasons and more trails built... a man can hope!

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This is Payment in Liue of Taxes.. PiLT... That funding changed several years ago and was a hit to the PitCo... which is 83% USFS and another good chunk is BLM.

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Originally Posted by Danno

I don't have a beef with you, settle down old man! I do notice when people praise that asshole (I happen to think this place has been way better since he left), and I have noticed you doing so on numerous occasions (I only searched because you challenged the notion that you mention him a lot). Sorry if my salty language offended your delicate sensibilities. :)

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Hugh would have loved this spat.

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Originally Posted by grskier

Which infrastructure? And investment by whom?

...our shortfalls in infrastructure are noticeable. Local government is increasingly asked to subsidize the states highway system.... Infrastructure investment is an issue around the country

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The state.
I agree.
If I was not clear in my post, my issue is with the state smiling to the bank and telling the local counties to pay for their own highways, and if the state does do something, it is a public/private toll shoulder/lane that take 7 years to complete and can barely handle the additional load grown during those 7 years but it feels slightly better than rolling roadblocks and construction traffic.

We have the CO-9 Breck/Frisco project which is in what... year 10 of 12 to add lanes to less than 8 miles of road?

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Originally Posted by fastfred

oh yeah

my favorite is the dumb fucks who want to bring the olympics to colorado

how fucking stupid are people?

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Stupid if they forgot that we won the 76 games and then turned it down. Olympic committee will NEVER allow Colorado to have the games if it was ever stupid enough to bid again.

Olympics might be the only way I70 would ever get fixed, and I doubt anyone on the Olympic selection committee was around when CO turned it down in '76. Doubt it is even a factor anymore. Not that I want it to happen, but I'd sell the house and move.

there are more tourists because there are more people

Denver would be better served to explore the Summer games.
You wouldn't need to host events in Vail/BC or Steamboat, could do it all right in town.

Well maybe in another 30 years when CO is the only place below the 50th parallel that still has snow, Denver can alternate with Vancouver, Calgary and Lillehammer until they phase out the winter games. ;)

How crowded will it be in the high country when CO has the only ski resorts in the lower 48?
And in the summer when the Front Range, with an extra 5 million people, is looking to escape summer temperatures that breach 100degF 1-2 dozen times a summer instead of once or twice a year?

And how much will my property be worth then? I'll be old and move to Idaho or Montana or something.

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Originally Posted by old goat

there are more tourists because there are more people

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While that's definitely a factor, Its not entirely due to that. Areas around here have been marketing and promoting pretty aggressively and it shows. Things were getting crazy before Denver started blowing up.

https://www.asla.org/uploadedFiles/C...Report2012.pdf

Better marketing, direct flights, and an overload of info online (to take out any unknown while planning a trip) is a major factor. People used to go to places with just a road map and some advice from friends. The ones that didn't like the unknown stayed at home, now they get online and figure shit out.

Too many tourists in Yellowstone. Any of you guys been up there lately? Tourist traffic has nearly doubled in the last 20 years but they haven't added a single fucking parking spot. Not one. There's hardly an off-season anymore. The place is swarming with Chinese tourists these days; they might be even more annoying than Texans. Texans drop some money, at least. They don't pack an entire suitcase full of noodle cups when they travel.

I'll take tourism over extraction, any day.

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

I'll take tourism over extraction, any day.

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Same industry, different product and pollution problems.

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Originally Posted by neckdeep

Too many tourists in Yellowstone. Any of you guys been up there lately? Tourist traffic has nearly doubled in the last 20 years but they haven't added a single fucking parking spot. Not one. There's hardly an off-season anymore.

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Perfect example of how "busy" is very, very relative.

Busiest NPs are
1) Great Smoky Mountains - 10 million visitors on 500K acres
2) Grand Canyon - 4.7 million visitors on 1.2 million acres
3) Rocky Mountain - 4 million visitors on 260K acres
4) Yosemite - 4million visitors on 750K acres
5) Yellowstone - 4 million visitors on 2.2 million acres

You can probably share how "concentrated" those crowds are at Yellowstone. RMNP's east side is ridiculous, west side isn't too bad.

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Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile

Perfect example of how "busy" is very, very relative.

Busiest NPs are
1) Great Smoky Mountains - 10 million visitors on 500K acres
2) Grand Canyon - 4.7 million visitors on 1.2 million acres
3) Rocky Mountain - 4 million visitors on 260K acres
4) Yosemite - 4million visitors on 750K acres
5) Yellowstone - 4 million visitors on 2.2 million acres

You can probably share how "concentrated" those crowds are at Yellowstone. RMNP's east side is ridiculous, west side isn't too bad.

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Yellowstone is stupid busy at the popular photo-spots. But walk 500m off a paved trail and you have the place to yourself. It's wonderful. We saw 3 couples in 4 days of backpacking in the height of summer this year. Hard to see so few people at RMNP.