You're doing it wrong

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

i just step up to the first available double in that quad line, then start looking for a triple to squeeze up to. lots of folks think i'm doing it wrong:D

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My favorite technique. So much faster than the singles line.

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Originally Posted by gravitylover

Get over it. High compression motors need high octane.

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Yeah. No. They don't. You may believe they do, but the facts seem to prove otherwise. I could provide more evidence, but I feel like you're already ignoring what's already been posted. You could figure this out by googling for 5 minutes or so.

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Just because it's a high compression motor doesn't mean it's a performance car.

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Right. So what?

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So many cars today are that way for fuel economy or emissions req's.

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Show me anything that proves octane affects emissions, please. I just don't know why that would be remotely true and have never heard of that.

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Kind of like why we need to use 0W-20 full synthetic oil because we have variable valve timing and other high tech goodies under the hood the require microscopic particle sizes so things don't clog up.

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No, it's not like that at all. Two completely different things--but I believe that what you're referring to is similar to another one of the octane myths the Car Talk guys list on the site.

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I ran one tank of 89 in my car out of curiosity and got almost 5mpg less than usual and it ran like shit at anything above an idle.

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Then there's something wrong with your car. Again, I had a turbo car (you actually have seen the car) that Subaru recommended 91 for, which I followed for some time. After understanding that it's basically marketing hype I switched and found essentially zero difference--yes, the performance was very slightly affected (I would really only notice if I tried to gun it up a steep hill), but fuel economy was unchanged.

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Tell it to Click and Clack.....

"We don't believe that any modern engine"

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How long will it be before Click and Clack's advice about "modern engines" is of historical interest or humorous value only?

It has to be fairly soon?

...and while it may not have a hudge relevance to road cars (yet) the cutting edge of internal combustion engine and gasoline design (F1) is about running engines at the very edge of knock, all the time.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

How long will it be before Click and Clack's advice about "modern engines" is of historical interest or humorous value only?

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Is that a trick question? Something change about internal combustion since the dark days of 2009?

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It has to be fairly soon?

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Sure.

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...and while it may not have a hudge relevance to road cars

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Or any relevance.

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(yet) the cutting edge of internal combustion engine and gasoline design (F1) is about running engines at the very edge of knock, all the time.

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I think you have this discussion confused with the 'I'm building my own F1 car at home and need 100 octane fuel' thread.

Feel free to push your way onto the gondola with me, you're likely going to get high and have a fun ride up.

People turn into fuckig morons in airports. They could be the smartest people in real life, but once they enter the airport doors they become bubbling fucking idiots. How do you not know you need your ID and boarding pass at security??? You've been in line for a while, see everyone else with their shit ready to go and yet still need to search frantically in every fucking bag, pocket, purse etc. Figure your shit out, you're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Gcooker

Feel free to push your way onto the gondola with me, you're likely going to get high and have a fun ride up.

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Yeah, but if you're Canadian it doesn't count, and you're probably not one of the bro douches who believes his crew is entitled to a private gondy. They're still doing it wrong.

going down a tgr rabbit hole again checking this vital thread with a stack of work orders in front of me.... I'm doing it wrong!!!!

That's actually a pretty good one--how does one do it wrong on TGR? I'll start: getting upset about Greg from AZ. It's awesome when it happens, but clearly people are doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Gcooker

Feel free to push your way onto the gondola with me, you're likely going to get high and have a fun ride up.

People turn into fuckig morons in airports. They could be the smartest people in real life, but once they enter the airport doors they become bubbling fucking idiots. How do you not know you need your ID and boarding pass at security??? You've been in line for a while, see everyone else with their shit ready to go and yet still need to search frantically in every fucking bag, pocket, purse etc. Figure your shit out, you're doing it wrong.

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In that vein people who stand in a 10 minute line at a fast food counter and don't decide what they want (or even read the menu) until they get to the register.

People who still use paper checks at grocery stores ... and the subset of those morons that don't start filling them out until the total shows. You can put the fucking name of the store and your signature on the fucking thing beforehand. Same for the people that wait to dig out their cards (and coupons, and store club card) until the cashier stares at them. You can swipe as soon as the first fucking item is scanned, idiot.

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Or any relevance.

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I said yet.

And are you really suggesting that developments made for success in racing haven't already and won't continue to filter down to road cars?

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Or blocking gondy access to 'your' car so you can bro down with your boys. Fuck that--I've physically pushed my way in through equipment and body blockades (made for a few fairly uncomfortable rides, but it's the only way they'll learn).

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Unless there is a big line, asking is polite.

I don't think you know which Suby I'm driving now :smile:

Nope no turbo. Small displacement, burns pretty clean and makes acceptable power. High compression is not a replacement for displacement (nothing is) but historically has been another way to squeeze performance out of an otherwise pedestrian motor. You want proof? Look at my fuelly stats and find the tank that was ~5mpg lower than all of the others this past summer. It's not about performance the engine ran like shit, jerky acceleration and it ran hot with the occasional "burp" at highway speeds, all things it has never done running on 93. The only other times the mpg was close to that low was with a couple of bikes hanging off the outside on long trips or when it was snowy and I purposely used more fuel in the name of fun.

re: Doing it wrong - Riding a bike the wrong way on a one way street while texting with headphones in both ears.

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Originally Posted by Gcooker

People turn into fuckig morons in airports. They could be the smartest people in real life, but once they enter the airport doors they become bubbling fucking idiots. How do you not know you need your ID and boarding pass at security??? You've been in line for a while, see everyone else with their shit ready to go and yet still need to search frantically in every fucking bag, pocket, purse etc. Figure your shit out, you're doing it wrong.

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As some who travels frequently, this enrages me. These people need to be culled from the heard. How hard is to read on TSA's website about what is ok to fly with and what is banned. Further, how have people not figured out what needs to be removed when flying?

Don't get me started about the idiots with their hot coffee and three bags, trying to board the plane.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

People who still use paper checks at grocery stores ... and the subset of those morons that don't start filling them out until the total shows. You can put the fucking name of the store and your signature on the fucking thing beforehand. Same for the people that wait to dig out their cards (and coupons, and store club card) until the cashier stares at them. You can swipe as soon as the first fucking item is scanned, idiot.

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These people need a high five. To the face. With a chair.

Paper checks are the most insecure way to pay. And filling out the fucking ledger? Give me a fucking break. You can check that at home, online.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

I said yet.

And are you really suggesting that developments made for success in racing haven't already and won't continue to filter down to road cars?

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No, obviously not, but I'm suggesting that the idea that all of our engines are or will soon be running right at the edge of knocking (or really close to the edge of anything else in the way F1 engines do) is not relevant to whether or not GL's Suby will run OK on 87 octane.

It's also clearly wrong to imply that this is just some random opinion Click and Clack have (had), when all sorts of industry tech data suggests the same.

Back on topic:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AWQvIldeFw...04534031_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

Unless there is a big line, asking is polite.

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I disagree. When you have three people trying to take up a quad do you ask before joining? How about an 8 person gondy with two or three people in it? I don't agree with the whole bro/brah entitlement thing.

If there's no line none of this applies (to me it's only an issue on crowded days--otherwise I'd rather ride separately myself).

When it's crowded and I see an opening, I have no qualms about "asking" if I can join as I am doing so. We can all get along for a few minutes.

Isn't there a thread for this already? Shit that annoys you?

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Originally Posted by riser3

Isn't there a thread for this already? Shit that annoys you?

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You're doing it wrong?

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Originally Posted by gravitylover

You want proof? Look at my fuelly stats and find the tank that was ~5mpg lower than all of the others this past summer.

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This is the troof. I've been documenting this for years with my turbo engine. It's almost enough to offset the cost differential between 89 and 93 and my car runs great.

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

No, obviously not, but I'm suggesting that the idea that all of our engines are or will soon be running right at the edge of knocking (or really close to the edge of anything else in the way F1 engines do) is not relevant to whether or not GL's Suby will run OK on 87 octane.

It's also clearly wrong to imply that this is just some random opinion Click and Clack have (had), when all sorts of industry tech data suggests the same.

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What you quoted says that running regular in a car designed for premium won't automatically damage the engine. It says nothing at all about any other effect the lower octane fuel might have on performance and mileage.

If the engine has to retard timing (and in the case of a turbo, reduce boost) to avoid knock then the engine is not running as efficiently as it was designed to. This can most definitely affect emissions and power output, and lower power output for a given amount of fuel burned, depending on where it shows up in the RPM range would definitely lead to decreased mileage.

Also - the engine has to actually start knocking (detonating) before the computer can sense it and make adjustments. In some engines even small amounts of detonation break things - see the damaged piston posted above. Some cars, like Subarus turbos, definitely do run on the ragged edge of detonation.

So you can stick with your misinterpretation of what some yahoo mechanics with a radio show have to say, and I'll stick with the idea that if I can't stomach an extra $4/tank of gas I'll just buy a car that doesn't require it. Tell me, why would the manufacturer recommend high octane if it wasn't necessary? They getting kickbacks from the oil companies?

I think we've fully covered octanes now.

Can we get a ruling on daytime running lights?

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post

Or blocking gondy access to 'your' car so you can bro down with your boys. Fuck that--I've physically pushed my way in through equipment and body blockades (made for a few fairly uncomfortable rides, but it's the only way they'll learn).


Unless there is a big line, asking is polite.

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I do both.

If my path is blocked; I pick out the person I'm moving and say excuse me while I'm doing it. Some are usually give the pissed off look immediately but the quick look around by them that their little party was the problem and they shrug it off.

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Congregating with your friends in the middle of a crowded sidewalk. If people have to push through your stupid group and/or step off the curb to get around you--you're fucking doing it wrong. Assholes.

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Did you see this? I'd love to see this become more prevalent.
"Liverpool becomes first city to open fast walking lanes"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6719766.html

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

I think we've fully covered octanes now.

Can we get a ruling on daytime running lights?

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Daytime Running Lights are legit. Anything that enhances awareness and visibility of my presence amongst the distracted, mouthbreathing hordes is a good thing.

Also, on 2 lane highways it helps increase visibility and safer passing.

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Originally Posted by flowtron's ghost

Daytime Running Lights are legit. Anything that enhances awareness and visibility of my presence amongst the distracted, mouthbreathing hordes is a good thing.

Also, on 2 lane highways it helps increase visibility and safer passing.

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Quoted for truth. Bolded for emphasis. Bonus points for using one of my favorites; mouth-breathers.

Speaking of; mouth-breathers - you're doing it wrong.

There was a long and very amusing thread way back when about them where allegations of affecting MPG and of being dangerous for motorcycles were slung about.

Edit: found it

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

I think we've fully covered octanes now.

Can we get a ruling on daytime running lights?

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Equally as important is the dorks who keep their fog lights on all the time. What about the people that change the bulbs to ones bright enough to be headlights?

Unfortunately my car has extremely annoying drl's so I usually keep my running lights on because it kicks the drl's off and it turns on the really cool boomerangs (sometime called halos or angel eyes) and the tails for added rear vis.

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Originally Posted by Cross

The octane of the fuel you need to run is determined by the compression of the engine. Higher compression engines have a better chance of pre ignition(knocking), The octane is the measure of how much compression the fuel can withstand before detonating on its own(there is no extra power). Newer cars sense engine knock and will adjust the timing to attempt to stop the knocking with lower octane fuels. Older cars did not do this so you needed to run higher octane fuel if you experienced knocking. Higher elevations engine compression is lower so lower octane fuel is needed, ever notice Colorados premium fuel is 91, go to a sea level state and premium is 93. Running a higher octane will not give an engine on its own more performance. This is 100% a myth. There are two ways you see better performance from running higher octane fuel, your engine has a high compression and you should have always been running that fuel(ie manufacture recommended fuel in the manual), or your cars computer monitors engine knocking and can adjust the timing to make use of the higher octane fuel, provided your car can physically compress the fuel enough to need the different timing. This is why running higher octane fuel then what the manufacture recommends is a waste of money......

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This paragraph is way too long for a bb, you need to use the return key more. Until then, you're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

There was a long and very amusing thread way back when about them where allegations of affecting MPG and of being dangerous for motorcycles were slung about.

Edit: found it

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what a great thread, somehow I missed that. About halfway through, uglymoney taking some body shots but hanging tough in the clinches.

Thanks for the link.

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Originally Posted by TomCrac

When it's crowded and I see an opening, I have no qualms about "asking" if I can join as I am doing so. We can all get along for a few minutes.

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Works better if you don't ask to join them...ask if they're three...then just slide up.

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Originally Posted by goldengatestinx

Works better if you don't ask to join them...ask if they're three...then just slide up.

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super rapey

My approach is to just go in or get on if there is an opening (busy day). The "asking" is just pretending that I care what their answer is. :)

"Of course, Alhamad's reasoning for the fury of genitalia, curses, and coke he exposed his cab driver to only makes the story better. According to an affidavit filed in District Court the following morning, "he wanted to get 'extreme' while in Aspen." All we can imagine is that Dexter and TJ would be proud."

http://www.tetongravity.com/story/ad...-felony-charge
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Dex would, but not sure about Teej.

What ever happened with that guy? He just faded into the ether. I know he was sick, did the cancer finally get him?

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Originally Posted by gravitylover

What ever happened with that guy? He just faded into the ether. I know he was sick, did the cancer finally get him?

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?? TJ or who? There was all the footage he said he was working on before his meltdown if you're talking about TJ

Yup TJ. I thought he was working on cleaning up the vid footage from Plakespears celebrate life adventure and then he disappeared. hmmph, that makes me remember how much I miss Nils, he was a good guy.