you can't possibly be a good rider if you don't use flats.
Sam Hill. Quod erat demonstratum.
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you can't possibly be a good rider if you don't use flats.
Sam Hill. Quod erat demonstratum.
I wasn't talking about pedaling. I meant lifting your bike using the pedals.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalisto
deeerp
Bumpity.
I made the switch on my trail bike from XTR Trail pedals with carbon-sole race shoes to Race Face Chesters with Adidas Trailcross Terrex Protect shoes.
It was fun, I pumped a few airs and didn't die.
It was scary, I came off the bike on the very first feature, forgetting that I wasn't clipped in and couldn't cheat the rear end of the bike by just lifting my foot without pumping.
It was tiring, as I used a lot of extra foot and leg muscles trying to make sure I was properly balanced, kind of like when you've been off skis for a while and are "toe clawing" your way into your boots to stay on top of everything.
It wasn't magic, I don't feel any better or worse of a rider, even climbing over rocks - maybe that will change after some more time at the pumptrack.
The hardest part was, if I didn't get my foot down exactly the way I liked it before dropping into a trail segment, it took a while to find a smooth section of trail where I could get my pedals upright instead of level, so that I could unweight and then adjust the location of the misplaced foot. That actually took a lot of getting used to!
Also, what's the deal with alloy vs. composite? I went Chesters because they are way less expensive than blingy alloy pedals and still relatively light. Am I missing anything other than bling at this point? I'm not trying to set DH records (and if I were, I'd be clipped in, duh) so just wondering if it's really just a stiffer feel you get with alloy over composite pedals.
Whatever you do, make sure you give yourself plenty of time to get used to them if you think they aren't working out.
Not sure on alloy vs composite. Lots of the alloy pedals are low profile which will mean fewer rock strikes, especially important with the long/low/slack trend. Personally I've been disappointed with the longevity of them. I have a set of 15 year old axiom pedals whose bearings are in better shape than all the low profile brands I've ridden for 12-18mos.
Composites make a less worse noise when you hit them on rocks.
I have two pairs of Chesters, one for my mountain bike and one for my road bike that is mainly a commuter/bar bike. Love em. Cheap, and durable, like nothing else in mountain biking. Ride em with 5.10 free rides. Love that setup for going DH, or for Moab. Nice to be able to bail a little easier and faster when riding tech. I almost high-sided going 30 mph on a dirt road a few weeks ago but was able to self correct by putting a foot down, and I never would have gotten it down in time if I were on clips.
However, on my local trails, I still ride clipped in. They are mostly pedally XC trails without much tech. The efficiency over a long climb is noticeable. I hate not being able to adjust foot position on long descents to avoid foot/calf fatigue though.
Just remember bmx folks can bunnyhop pretty damn high and they use flats. For us folks who grew up riding bmx I don't think I could ever get used to being clipped in while mountain biking. Plus how can you bust out a gnarly one footer or nac nac or boosted table in the air being clipped in!
I recently bought a pair of 5.10s and as much as I hate how they look the grip is in fact amazing. Probably the best upgrade to my biking.
Currently I have a $50 metal VP pedals from Amazon. Thinking about trying out plastic pedals for mountain biking (anyone remember the bmx Odyssey PC craze of the mid 00s?) with those new Kona pedals. I like the grip on the VPs but want to try some wider platform pedals to better distribute weight/pressure on my feet especially for some longer bikepacking trips.
Don't BMX racers wear clipless?
Yep
Grown-up pros do. But most BMX racers are kids and kids mostly ride flats. Plus the BMX freestyle/dj guys are all on flats. And growing up with a BMX background really does give you a nice bike-handling skill foundation.Quote:
Originally Posted by shredgnar
I think everyone knows, flats are fun, clipless is efficient.
I switched to flats a year ago, and I don't see any difference in the uphill times.Quote:
Originally Posted by shredgnar
Maybe a few fewer crashes on uphill technical stuff though.
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Flat pedals are flat
Good for riding my town bike to the bar
I would put flats on a fat bike for snow where the SPD pedal & cleat pack with snow/ice
Flats were great for riding skinnies becuz I could ditch the bike 1/100 th of a second faster than I could with SPD's , but I also tended to inadvertently ditch the bike on bumps when I wasn't riding skinnies, eventualy I just quit riding skinnies and stuck with the SPD's in the trails
Not much, metal pedals can be made thinner+more concave which is nice if you're riding the roughest stuff you can find, but now that there's a few great composite options that are large and with good metal pins, I feel no reason to spend more, I've been pretty happy on one up composites I've had all this year so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio
^^^one ups look good, both the aluminum and th e composites and are reasonably priced. Those guys keep pumping out cool products.
I really like ultra thin pedals. So planted. Thicker the pedal the more they feel like they want to roll. I was hooked after my ht ae03’s but the bushings and bearings wore out after a year. It was ez to rebuild but still died too soon. Bought some Canfield crampons and they’ve been really good. I’ll buy them again. After a year they still feel like new. Occasionally they have them on sale
^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by grinch
Awesome pedal, but you can't beat the RF Chester for value to performance ratio ( IMO ) ...
They do look good. I heard of an atlas issue someone had so I got scared off. Quite possible it was a one off issue and they’re fine though, I’m not sure because I haven’t heard of any issues since. One rock the wrong way can ruin a great pedal. It was at the time I was checking different options for new pedals. Rf, one up, canfield , deity were the ones I was looking at and the Canfields just happened to be on sale
Yup. No complaints about mine in the last year of use. Light, cheap, and grippy and they come in a lot of different colors.Quote:
Originally Posted by ACH
I find the idea of $100 plus flats ridiculous. I currently purchase mine from China off of fleabay. Quality has been outstanding, good grip etc.
Can anyone explain the cost of the HD components pedal for $150?
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The ultra thins cost a few extra cha chings. Once you get on those ultra thins it’s hard to buy thicker flats. Price be damned , now you’re just looking for durability
Right, but you got the red ones, yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by shredgnar
Green and black. Maybe that's why I'm so slowQuote:
Originally Posted by ACH
Damnit! I ordered a pair of the green Chesters earlier this week. I'm not looking forward to slowing down...Quote:
Originally Posted by shredgnar
I am squarely in the "older I get - the faster I was" category...
I've been extremely pleased with my spank oozys. Metal, thin, grippy as fuck, and they can take a beating and keep on spinning.
I’ve got Crampons and love them, but also put chesters on my wife’s new bike and was impressed when I rode it, especially for the price.
Flat pedals are awesome for bike parks, jump lines, and super-tech. They fucking suck on the uphills for efficiency and are much easier to pedal strike, which at this point is how I often crash. And I pedal less on uphills to avoid strikes, and less on downhills (well, just a smidge less on DHs) so I don't really understand how people don't notice the difference between the two. I do understand why people keep flats for XC riding, and that's fine, but really? You don't see a difference???
My pedals have flat one side, clips on the other. I love them.
^^^Jeez Guy, those are the worst of all worlds. Bad at everything, all the drawbacks of both with few of the rewards of either. I would encourage you to to try a real pedal/shoe combo of either persuasion. You'll be blown away.
I mostly agree with all of you about $100+ flat pedals but all the high end flats have been always been this way, even more. Some of the blingiest, like the Twenty6 Predator, were $300+.
Not that I ever have, or ever would pay that. Looks like Twenty6 designs is tits up these days anyway though. I bet he regrets the name choice for his company, ha.
I'm a clipless guy myself. I like a bit of platform though, for emergencies, and a shoe that walks OK.
I do have some of the resin pedals on the DJ bike, and I like flats for jumping, and for Park (mostly jumping). Used to run them on the DH bike for park, but still preferred clipless for racing unless it was super wet and slippery. Flats are sweet but, like many here, I do a lot of mileage and a lot of vert, and I like really techy stuff up and down. Having used both in various situations, I prefer clipless for my trail bike. Mostly for pedal stroke and power but also, in spite of nice 5.10s and good pedals, my feet will bounce around a little on rough stuff and I hate trying to adjust my foot position while riding on flats. BMX background here too and bunny hopping on flats is still intuitive for me, easy peasy. My technique automatically adjusts based on what I'm on, and what I'm trying to do. Like just trying to to clear a hole, get my back wheel up on something, or get up and over something tallish. It's just a learned skill.
Anyhow, not being a total connoisseur, the resin pedals seem great to me, and definitely worth the price. Also agree that a good shoe is key, probably more important than a good pedal.
I ride both and it sounds like you need some better shoes for flats.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
My buddy rides Pro BMX (20" and cruiser), travels to all the nationals with the team etc and he rides clipless on those little bikes.
But when he rides MTB he ridesa 29er oddly, and flats even though he has to pay out of pocket for the flat pedals (but not for the 5.10s haha). He hates climbing and sucks at it, but he says that the only area where clipless are superior to flats in his mind is when flat-out sprinting, or when trying to pedal over chunky terrain. So unless you are trying to set PRs on climbs or pedaling hard through chunk flats dont have a downside, and have a lot of upsides - after ride use, hikeability, and being able to bail easily and moto turn easily.
I have 5.10 freeride pros and concave, thin, resin pedals and love the combo. I can hit rocks or logs and the resin pedal doesnt catch like a metal pedal would. Grip is great, and i just did a ride that involved about 4 miles of hike-a-bike over granite boulder fields and the 5.10 rubber really shone brightly there.
Brand new 5.10s. I would hope there are less stiff shoes out there, but it's not the shoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
A guys opinion who sucks at climbing and hates it is worthless.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Also, anyone who walks up steep techy climbs, yes flats and your 5.10s are better, I'm sure they are great walking up, ha. Anyone who tries to climb those steep techy climbs, whether you make it all the way up or not, it's clipless all the way. Maybe this is why we are getting such a variance of opinions here, what people are actually climbing up.
I've not found the flats to be much worse at technical climbing, although it took awhile to overcome the muscle memory of pulling up in that sort of terrain - 'cause that don't work with flats.
That said, I'm old and weak and my endurance continues to get suckier and suckier... I attribute that to me walking techy ups nowadays... not the pedals. I should blame the pedals. :D
I imagine the WC DH field finds this discussion amusing.
Definitely flats on those courses for me, i'd be putting my feet down or there's a good chance just walking some parts, ha. They are mostly clipped in I'm guessing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Now that Sam Hill has jumped ship to the EWS, World Cup DHers are, ALL clipped in. Every. Single. One.
So an opinion from guy who rides bikes professionally and rides both clipless and flats is a worthless opinion? Wow. Not everything in MTB revolves around climbing, kinda like how not everything in MTB revolves around descending....Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
But, in the lense of your climbing-only viewpoint, i would also offer that on many alpine rides there are extended periods of hike-a-bike in which flats sure are nice, not to mention safer. And also for days that consist of trailwork and riding most folks would prefer flats.
Wonder why Lock-on grips vs Slide on grips discussions don't cause more controversy.
You are leaving out some choice facts all of a sudden, he's a BMXer who hates to climb. Who cares if he's pro. maybe it would be different if I actually knew him, sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
True. Any time you are not on your bike, clipless are not preferred. Kinda goes without saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown