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Yes. Hope yours was as good as mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Gotz
Extree, want to tell my partners that? I could use a pay-doubling...Quote:
Originally Posted by extreeski
Damn, girlski, that's a lot of debt. Pay what you can while you can, and take it from there.
Heh. Ok Guy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
Maybe not, but don't give up trying! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by girlski0912
The dollahs involved suck but I think buying an education is like buying a house, it just takes a bit longer for the asset to appreciate. The only way to survive the shock is to refuse to think about the total amount of money owed. Yep, it's all about denial. Focus on the monthly payment, which actually isn't too bad, although it does mean deferring for a year if you really want to ski bum. (I'd say go and be happy, as it may be a few more years before you have the chance to ski full time again!)
In any case, I agree the time will go quickly between now and when your loans are paid. But I don't agree with the notion you should prostitute yourself to a job you don't enjoy in order to pay them. You are one smart and pursuasive woman and once you pass the bar you will have shown prospective employers you can finish whatever you start. Then you can treat the degree like a liberal arts thang and look into a huge range of jobs that do spark your interest. They may not use your technical legal knowledge but they'll use the writing, analytical and communication skills you developed in law school.
Practicing law seems like it gives you the option of starving in the public sector or sweat-shopping in the private sector, in either case working at something you don't care about for 50-70 hours a week. But there are lots of jobs in private companies and nonprofit organizations that pay pretty well (yep even in nonprofit), line up with your values, have huge growth opportunity, will be a lot more rewarding than fakin' it in the legal world, and will at least let you ski 60+ days a year...not ski bum level for sure but not chopped liver either. And if anyone suggests these jobs are hard to get, you may be right, but you haven't met girlski!
Don't forget you know at least one wee lassie who's pulled it off....
Just to rub it in, I'd like to tell you that my undergrad credits cost $11.50 each during my freshman year, with a maximum semester cost of $200.
Of course that didn't qualify me for any job other than "lift attendant".
I thought I gave you advice/plan for this earlier this year. There are so many ways to make a decent living using your degree with flex hours (for instance, counsel for WA Dept of Health can -- after a 6-12 month probationary period -- work 4 tens and eventually work two days/week from home). Or, you could join Rach, Joe, and others and work with me!!! Heh. I'd love bossing you around...
Another idea -- find a degree program that leads to a public interest job that will pay off all your student loans (not knowing how much you have) and stay in school.
heh- it would be really weird for a guy with "Girl, let us freak" in his sigline to be your boss.
First, your student loan debt is non-dischargable in bankruptcy (since 1998):
11 U.S.C. sec. 523(a)(8) - You should be able to look that one up in a jiffy.
Second, it does suck, but it is the price you pay for what you can do with your education. I've been there, am still there, and while I don't like it, I feel that by assuming educational debt, I've put myself in a position to really sculpt the kind of life that I would like. Sure, things are meager now, but in time it will be well worth it. After you start really having an impact on other people's lives you will get the rewards that make up for the sufferfest you just endured (well, add in the bar exam).
P.M. me if you want to chat a bit more about it.
Nice informative post from "Frozen Cave Man Lawyer" Unnnnggghhhh ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark
a life of sharp toothed shysterhood awaits
[QUOTE=MakersTeleMark]First, your student loan debt is non-dischargable in bankruptcy (since 1998):
11 U.S.C. sec. 523(a)(8) - You should be able to look that one up in a jiffy.
QUOTE]
the way I read it, if you meet the three prongs of the Brunner test, student loans are dischargable.
11 U.S.C. § 523(a)(8).
5. In United Student Aid Funds, Inc. v. Pena (In re Pena), 155 F.3d 1108, 1114 (9th Cir. 1998), the Ninth Circuit adopted the three part "undue hardship" test first established by the Second Circuit in Brunner v. New York State Higher Educ. Servs. Corp. (In re Brunner), 831 F.2d 395, 396 (2d Cir. 1987). To satisfy the Brunner test, the debtor has the burden of proving:
(1) that the debtor cannot maintain, based on current income and expenses, a "minimal" standard of living for herself and her dependents if forced to repay the loans; (2) that additional circumstances exist indicating that this state of affairs is likely to persist for a significant portion of the repayment period of the student loans; and (3) that the debtor has made good faith efforts to repay the loans.
Brunner, 831 F.2d at 396.
Here is an interesting read: http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/web/bap..../?opendocument
It'll get you pretty far in my book. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by girlski0912
Have you thought about applying for the Apprentice? Lawyers seem to do pretty well, especially ex-ski racers. Of course, if you won, you really would be working for "THE MAN"!!
Maybe it will launch your modeling career (nsfw)
http://www.bigbtv.com/Images/Reality...cs/AllFour.jpg
First off- you CANNOT erase student loans w/ bankruptcy. That's the whole federal backing of the loan. You never could, not even before the new admin's laws.
Second, you can still ski bum. Once your loans are sent out you can contact the co. that bought them and get a forbarance or financial hardship forbarance. If you can't get a job "all I can get in Utah is this stinking table waiting job, it pays $9/hr. and I only work from 4-10 at night... it really sucks" you can ask to have the payments put on hold. The interest still accrues but if you consolidate now at 3-4% what do you care. Right now is the BEST time to be taking out student loans, EVER! You'll never get a lower interest rate on ANY loan in your life. If it takes you 10+ years to pay it off- who cares!
Once you start working you can have your payments reduced based on the amount you make. If you take a job at the prosecutor's office you'll only make a fraction of that loan amount per year. If you're loan payment is 20% of your monthly income (I guarantee it'll be higher) they'll reduce your payment. Problem is that you're not paying much on the priciple but only paying on the interest, again, who cares. You need to consolidate your loans as soon as possible to get out from under the high interest of the private loans. I went through nelnet and have been really happy. If I need to skip a month I fill out a form that I get online, fax it to them and don't make a payment.
Don't even worry about it, you can ski bum if you like. It may cost you a little but will prolly be worth it in the end. PM me if you want any more info.
Wow...I really appreciate everyone's input. And with a good night's sleep under my belt and some perspective provided to me from the prosecutor's I work with, I am much more objective about all of this.
First off, like I said earlier, I don't want to declare bankruptcy. To me that is throwing in the towel way too soon and I'm not a quitter. Plus I was hoping to buy a house here in the next few years and refinance my car so that my parents are no longer saddled with my debt. It's just not an option yet...As many of you have pointed out, there are other ways of dealing with all of this.
Such as the small nest egg that my father started for me via a life insurance policy that both of us have decided would be better invested in a home for me as opposed to paying into a premium. We are both looking into how to gift that money so that neither one of us pays an exorbant amount of taxes. Originally I wanted to avoid blowing all of this on paying back school. The idea had been to use a portion of it to pay off my loans (most likely my private loans at this point during the grace period so that I can pay off the interest) and use the rest as a down payment on a home. That money will take a little heat off of me, but I am still nervous.
What was sort of coincidental was a voice mail from an attorney that I had waiting for me when I got to work this morning. I am friends with John Kircher who is own of the owners of Boyne Resorts. Last year he spent most of the winter trying to convince me to get in touch with a woman named Ruth Neilsen who is the attorney for Crystal...and come to find out ALOT of other ski areas. She is based in Seattle and travels all over the country defending ski areas in everything from personal injury to land disputes. Kircher insisted that I needed to speak with her. Well my voice mail this morning was yet another person telling em to get in contact with Ruth. And in light of my current revelations of just how in debt I am, I think that I am going to set up a meeting with this woman and see what opportunities may await me.
Rusty- I know I know...I am sort of stubborn and sort of an idealist always thinking that something better might come around (which might explain why I am single... :rolleyes2 ) But I am investigating my options and am taking your advice into consideration. However, working JAG might also rank right up there with filing bankruptcy and stripping at BB's bachelor party to offset my debt.
Squirrel- I don't think that giving maggot discounts to take off my clothes for dirty and broke ski bums is going to get me anywhere! What, is Mrs. BakerBoy supposed to foot that bill on that one? :eek:
Monique- AHHHH...you are a doll and my mentor, but you already knew that!
1080 Rider: you might want to read this. he got his student loans discharged under a Ch 7, recently. Not all discharged, but most of the $193k. There are other cases as well if you meet the established Brunner test.
http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/web/bap..../?opendocument
Ah, you must be a lawyer, or more likely a [wannabe] law student looking to prove their google prowess. Sure there are exceptions, and I really don't want to argue the BRC, but satisfying Brunner is very tough (aka, I'll take the bait):Quote:
Originally Posted by assgasorgrass
See,
In re Carter, 77 B.R. 25 (undue hardship does not exist despite debtor's present inability to pay where debtor did not show that his circumstances would not foreseeably improve over the next 10 years);
In re Young, 237 B.R. 139 (debtor, a licensed chiropracter, working as a waitress not entitled to a hardship discharge, in part because she was not seeking employment utilizing her education and skills);
Bottom line, I've been there, contemplated it, deal with bastards on a monthly basis, accept my debt, and am striving to pay it off given the education I received for that debt. She should do the same. In many instances, straight bankruptcy filings are cop outs from bad decision making. No one, like the above posters, should advocate for bankruptcy, that's why it's better not to plant the magic "it will really all go away" seed, and provide healthy suggestions for avoiding the prospect of bankrupcy (e.g. opt for an income contingent repayment plan that is capped at a set percentage of your current salary). That ain't in the case law, that comes from ... experience.
[QUOTE=assgasorgrass]1080 Rider: you might want to read this. he got his student loans discharged under a Ch 7, recently. Not all discharged, but most of the $193k. There are other cases as well if you meet the established Brunner test.
[QUOTE]
Yeah, there are exceptions but I don't think she wants to fit into any of those. But what's funny is that this guy went to school w/ me. I don't know who he was but he graduated a year after me. Pretty funny shit! I think there are a lot of people at my school who would qualify (ie: borderline retarded and shouldn't be able to get a job as a lawyer).
That is pretty crazy 1080. Small world. Too bad that guy couldn't push on through after all he went through. I wasn't advocating the BR route at all, just merely stating that there is a way where student loans can get discharged. I was perusing the ninth circuit page when I ran across some of these cases. The ninth circuit is a little whacked in some of their decisions. Disclaimer: Idahoan point of view
MTM: Nope not an attorney, used to be a wannabe law student but time passed me by, too old at this point. I do like reading legal opinions and what not. Wasn't trying to step on any attorney toes.
I can't believe you dangled this one out in front of us like that!Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080Rider
Time to suck it up, get a job, pay back your debts and be a slave to the Man.
Bwa! Normally, corny jokes make me go :rolleyes:. But since I feel for you in this situation, I can only :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by girlski0912
Jesus you're old... have a kid or something, you're no fun anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by LAN
I'll pop out a kid if you promise to provide daycare while I'm at work. On second thought, that might not be a good idea. :FIREdevilQuote:
Originally Posted by BakerBoy
You'd better get them one of these if they want to roll like the big boys!Quote:
Originally Posted by LAN
http://www.ski-doo.com/NR/rdonlyres/.../MINI_Z_EN.jpg
And then you guys can be twinsies. Is that the big boy sled that mommy bought you to start off with BB??? Why does the thought of BakerBoy Babysitting services just horify me?Quote:
Originally Posted by BakerBoy
you should totally be able to get work as a divorce lawyer:
http://tetongravity.com/forums/attac...tid=5406&stc=1
Quote:
Originally Posted by girlski0912
I was going to suggest focusing in on the industry too - definitely start networking this angle - there's got to be some perks:)
good luck!