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Originally Posted by Hugh Conway
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Originally Posted by iceman
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Originally Posted by Hugh Conway
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Originally Posted by iceman
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Originally Posted by Danno
Honestly for what he wants to do just hire a Design/Build firm with a good designer. You really only need an Architect for new construction, and all they will do is rape you in fees, then walk as soon as their drawings are done.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
Danno, if you were in the DC area I'd absolutely put you in touch with my wife. She is a Certified Remodeler/Interior Designer (very different than a decorator) and folks like you are her core business. http://www.grossmuellers.com/ She meets with the clients, fleshes out their wants and needs, does the drawings and the estimate, and gets the permits, then babysits throughout the project.
Don't know where you are but there has to be someone like her in your area if you're in a Metro. You can always contact your local NKBA chapter here: http://www.nkba.org/
Another good resource: http://www.nari.org/
Pulled out carpet and baseboards in the living room, installed laminate wood flooring and new baseboards, installed a flagstone hearthstone and woodstove/chimney, and put in recessed lighting and ceiling fan. Nothing super complicated, but I'm so inexperienced that having someone who could answer all the stupid questions along the way and point me in the right direction was valuable. Two examples:Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
1. A flooring company had convinced me that I could just glue hardwood flooring directly to the concrete slab with no problems. GC said no way, it'll warp/crack because of moisture coming out of the concrete. Went with the laminate instead (high quality stuff, it looks like real wood and can be refinished). Later had some unrelated moisture issues with a wood stair in the room that proved the hardwood would've definitely been a problem.
2. Getting the flagstone hearth from Lyons to Boulder, then into the living room, was a crazy process involving many burly men. I would have had absolutely no idea how to do that correctly, and would have probably done it too early (before the base was done), which would've made it nearly impossible to get into place.
In addition to raping, we also steal precious family treasures when we do "site visits" and occasionally kidnap children tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
I have some experience here. Ice had some good points. SCOPE SCOPE SCOPE. Figure out what you want done and do only that.
I'd be surprised if you find a GC who will give you anything other than ball park numbers (IE - Kitchen 70,000, Bathroom 30,000). Those will vary depending on your input to the GC. They will want very much on a job like you're describing to do it cost plus. Point being without a clear scope they can't give you an accurate budget. They can help develop that scope, but that is often best done with an architect.
Generally I'd lean towards custom cabinets.
Let the GC handle the whole job. AC, Remodels, etc. They have the ability to influence subs. You don't (relatively speaking). This is best for you.
If you hate yourself and don't want to have a life, do it yourself.
Kerdi shower pans.
jesus, no wonder the GCs, painters and drywallmethheads hate you. You steal the good shit first and leave nothing for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by acinpdx
What is it with flooring guys? I think there must be a union rule that they can't have a full set of teeth between a crew.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Conway
Yeah, your floor would've been fucked. Laminate floating floor was the correct choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegleg
I used a gc on our kitchen gut job even though I had been de facto gc on the rest of renovating our last 100 year old house. I was glad I had someone else on that job. He had access to better subs than I could have reliably found on my own. And I had someone to bitch at to replace waterlogged hardwood when the sink shutoff valves failed.
I like this idea. The designer will think of a lot of things you won't, will know about options, materials, etc you've never heard of. Don't expect a GC to give you much in the way of design or materials advice. With a design/build firm all the materials and fixtures should be specified in the bid so you should be able to get a firm price. If there are things you're not sure about--for example the stove--the installation can be bid and the stove itself left as "customer supply". Unless the job is totally cosmetic (if you're removing a wall, bearing or not, it's more than cosmetic) you probably will need a permit and there will have to be professional plans to apply for the permit. Definitely go to the website for your states consumer affairs department, )unless you live in Texas in which case there probably isn't one) and read up on contracting law for consumers--stuff like fixed bids (required for anything over $500 in CA), mechanics liens, etc, etc. Get a completion date clause if you can, although I've never had one and I don't know if you can get that for a small residential job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
We've done two major remodels--used architects and engineers for both because of major structural work, we generaled one, hired a GC for the other (Ron Adams in Truckee, fantastic guy, although he's a boarder). Although both jobs turned out well I'd recommend the GC if you don't go the DesignBuild way. You have access to better subs for the most part, the GC keeps them on schedule hopefully, they want to perform for the GC to keep the work coming but they know they probably won't get more work for you, and you don't get caught with two subs each blaming the other when there's a problem, leaving you SOOL. With the job we generaled ourselves, I did the framing and trim, including an oak tenon and wedge staircase. With the other job I just did the finish carpentry and painting.
We also did a cosmetic bathroom job where we did the demo, had a plumber fix a broken toilet flange, had a pro repair and texture the sheetrock, had a company do the shower stall and vanity tops (Kerrock--great stuff, expensive, only in NorCal I believe). We did the tile, finish plumbing, cabinets, and painting.
For the AC and painting--jobs which only involve one sub each and which are completely separate from the remodel--there's no reason to hire that through the KitchenBath firm, although they may be able to suggest subs for you.
I can't imagine that it is cheaper to remodel than to sell and buy something you like - it just doesn't make sense
You're assuming you can find a house you like every thing about in a neighborhood you like everything about, for a price low enough, figuring in the closing costs and broker's fee. And the experience of our son and of our lawyer trying to finance houses was that getting loan approval takes 6 months or more. (Both were preapproved but final approval still dragged on and on.)Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
Heh - guess I was being a little harsh. IME Architects come in, make a design, and hand it off. Sure there were site visits to see what you're working with but 9 out of 10 times once the plans are drawn and handed to the GC your work is done, leaving the homeowner to deal solely with the contractor. A segment of my wife's business is modifying Architectural plans to fit the changed wants & needs of the client - currently she's doing just that at the Congolese Ambassador's residence. We're now talking about flooring, cabinetry, fittings, etc - not the floor plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by acinpdx
Not saying you guys aren't worth it when it comes to additions/load bearing structures, but for remodeling a kitchen and bath using an architect is like killing a fly with a sledgehammer, and most Architects I know personally won't do any such work anyway, they refer it to people like my wife.
It's all good - people think that we in the media take those kidnapped babies and prepare a tasty snack out of them.
Danno. Think holdback. 10% holdback on all payment draws then at the end if he doesn't get around to doing some little pain in the ass 8 minute job you've still got leverage.
Working as an engineer we would do a final inspection, note ALL deficiencies and assign a dollar amount to each. Then we would double it. So a missing switch plate could be a $200 holdback. ($1 plate, 1 minute job plus travel to site, going to the wholesaler to get the plate, coffee, chat with buddy,....)
Because 9 out of 10 times, clients don't want to pay architects to provide construction administration services. Architects aren't going to perform construction administration, (i.e. observation reports, RFI respsone, shop drawing review, etc.) for free; they gots to eat too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Anyway...you don't need an architect for a typical remodel job that is just replacing finishes, cabinets, fixtures, etc., and I'm an architect (and a dentist).
pintrest and youtube..... you got this bro.
Just post pictures and videos as you go so we can share in the awesome.
Thanks for the advice, y'all. We definitely need to nail down what we want, and I don't expect a GC to be able to tell me exactly how much the job will cost, but I hope that he can tell me how much (approximately) his work will cost, and give me a range for the materials/cabinetry/tile. Though I'm beginning to think we won't be able to afford everything.
As for buying a different house, well, that comes with its own issues. There's the huge amount of money you lose by switching houses (commission, closing costs, new loan at higher interest rate), and the hassle of dealing with a remodel is somewhat offset by the hassle of moving (not to mention the hassle of selling, dealing with a contingent offer or bridge loan or ???). And then you are acquiring somewhat of an unknown, vs the known that you have. So, if I can afford say a $50k remodel HELOC on top of my mortgage, I don't see how I can come close to that buying and selling.
Let's play a game! How much do you think this kitchen cost? Plumbing & Electrical Re-Rough. Frame, DW peninsula, Kustom Kubbord cabinets, mid range appliances, level 2 granite, kohler, backsplash
http://p.rdcpix.com/v05/l8c84bf44-m7o.jpg
http://p.rdcpix.com/v05/l8c84bf44-m8o.jpg
How about this small bathroom?
http://p.rdcpix.com/v04/l8c84bf44-m13o.jpg
http://p.rdcpix.com/v04/l8c84bf44-m14o.jpg
$1,000,000?
The only reason i poke you about this is because the audience of folks (TGR) who really have no idea what architects, interior designers & decorators do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
And you are presenting a pretty limited perspective...
(and pimping your wife's business while you're at it...coincidence?)
I mean, fuck...in almost all states, you only need a structural engineer's stamp to permit new construction or additions; and the homeowner can own all the design decisions. No need for any design input whatsoever. [PE's, no intended offense on structural design]
Architects routinely provide services during construction
They do kitchen and bath remodels
They do interiors
As with any profession, each professional has particular experience and talents. The clients need to look at the professionals experience before hiring them.
Foggy, I have no idea, but I am very curious.
$15K-$18K for the kitchen and $8K - $10K for the bathroom, assuming these are DIY.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
apologies to Danno!
apologies, what for? hearing debates about the value of professionals in this field is useful discussion IMO.
Not DIY. That is a large remodel I recently completed. Part-time real estate investor customer. This is my forth or fifth remodel for them. They are very smart with the money. A couple of data points to help you with your guesses.
Cabinets cost $10K and that is a pretty good deal (alder, soft close, roll-outs, dovetail etc.). Install labor for cabinets and crown moulding was $1.5K. My prices are about middle of the road and probably less that what a skilled project manager/ carpenter would charge down in The Republic.
Looks good man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
want to do a job in the PRB? ;)
So I'm high?Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
In my defense, the cabinets looked like Brazilian Rosewood.
From the picture the backsplash is too busy and doesn't blend with the other colors and textures. The granite from the counter top might have looked better. jmo. Nice work though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
For an extra $2K a designer would have caught that. Place is gonna languish on the market because of that, and the lack of rosewood cabinets. JMHOQuote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
^^^
I don't disagree. But hey, I'm just a contractor and not the designer..get it. In all reality, this is a great example of some people need a design professional, some don't. Homeowners picked the counter and the splash and they love the product and the installation. As I tell my customers, I'll give you my opinion on design, but it is your house. I'll guide you and let you know if something is stupid, but ultimately the design a budget of finish materials is on you.
Danno, I wouldn't accept a job as a project manager in Boulder because I don't have the contacts or relationships with the subs and material providers. That is probably 50% of the job and how a good PM can make there services pay for themselves. How, if you end up needing a trim carpenter, tile setter and/or flooring installer, let me know.
It depends on your scope of work & the price point of your home. Since you are in the Republic, maybe $400k-$500k priced home, you could probably be under $20k for the kitchen, if you shopped around, & $5k-$10k for the baths. It really depends on if you are moving plumbing/electrical etc.
Exterior house paint can be all over the map. You can have a crew come and spray it, or a better crew scrape, caulk, etc. Assuming you have heat, then to add AC shouldn't be too bad (sub $5k).
Make a list of everything you want done and come back to us. If you need some local subcontractor's info, I can help. It isn't that hard to GC it, but you have to know what to look for & have the time to do it. Also, put the people under contract & require insurance, etc. I have a blank one I can send if you want.
Nice job, but that back splash is going to look dated fast.
Speaking of design ideas, I highly recommend not doing a breakfast bar like the above picture. We planned on that, but our GC suggested otherwise (we started with a designer, but it was not a good experience.) We went with his suggestion and made the whole counter the same level, making the peninsula a great work space. My kids did home work at it, my wife sews and bakes on it, and I use it for cooking/food prep. It is the single best thing about our kitchen, which is now going on 12years ago?
Are you in Denver? Might need some help if my guy is still working on his current project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
50k will get you something close to a good kitchen depending on size and taste.
Tipp is right here. Small residential remodels are really tough to make money on as an architect. It's likely they've already over'd the budgeted timeline for a job in just meeting with the bat shit wife who hasn't realized that her 100 grand doesn't mean shit to someone who could also have 10's of millions of dollars worth of work on the boards or in the field. The result is this - good architects, who do deliver good drawings and administer a job well, are entirely too busy to put up with you or your wife's bullshit. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.
So in my opinion, having worked both as a contractor and now an architect, leave the architect out of it on a finishes only or minor space changes.
I knew that. Just making conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
Totally agree...went from a breaky bar to all the same height...much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
Good point. I used to have a friend who was a professional designer. She had entire walls of catalogs full of materials I've never seen before, would have never thought of otherwise, and certainly are not available through your local retailers. If you want to get really specific with what you're doing and not just have the cookie-cutter, sub-par quality crap everybody else has, then a designer can be worth the money. What shocked me was how cheap they can get a lot of those materials for you, which could help offset some of the costs of using a designer in the first place. Just don't let them push their own tastes on you, which designers are notorious for doing. Make sure they're just helping assist you in doing what YOU want.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
In some areas that is certainly true. For example, if you lived in Dayton, Ohio, it would be a complete waste of money to do a major remodel. Just sell your home for 50k and go buy your already pimped out McMansion for 200k.Quote:
Originally Posted by DBdude
However if you live in a place where homes are expensive, remodeling is the obvious choice. Let's say you bought your home for 500k back in the day, but a similar home remodeled or built to the way you want it costs 1M, then dropping a couple hundred into it is the obvious choice. Especially since selling your outdated, 1973 time capsule will only get bottom dollar. Now, remodeling and trading into that 1M dollar house is certainly an option, but only after you make yours comparable first.
It would help to see what was there before in each of Foggy's pics. Did it involve moving walls and completely reshaping the rooms? Or did the remodel keep the original layout and just update the finishes/appliances? Are we including the cost of the floor (which obviously goes beyond the kitchen)?
My $.02 on the design: I dislike that the floor, walls and cabinets are all different but similar colors of wood, and I agree that the counter and backsplash clash pretty badly. This does seem like a case where the homeowners picked out each element in isolation (since they're all fine on their own) and didn't consider how they'd all work together. When I was remodeling my living room, we really wanted to go with some of the really cool interesting woods for the floor, but eventually realized that if the room looked completely different from the rest of the house it would be weird. In hindsight, our choice (matching the rest of the floors as closely as possible) was boring but works the best for the overall appearance.
I also agree 100%. Our last house had just a giant single slab of granite. Makes for MUCH more usable space. Our new house has the bar. When we remodel, we are definitely going back to the single level counter. It will make for a hudge counter top, as opposed to the way it currently is, which is a pretty big bar, but barely any space around the kitchen sink. The split-level counter tops are actually a very inefficient use of space.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash