Management advice

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Originally Posted by 4matic

Does your company have a dating policy?

Employee gets fired for whatever reason and files lawsuit because he was wrongly fired due to jealousy of other employees because you told him they were jealous or offended.

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Is that all you're concerned about... what happens when you fire someone? No wonder your DR didn't want to work for you if all you're waiting for is a chance to fire the guy. This kid has ZERO reason to worry about being fired. Unless he really fucks up when working on the road, or burns the place down, he is pretty secure. I worry more about him quitting to find a job where he can shoot more than worrying about the day he maybe makes a mistake.

I guess that's what makes my company a place people WANT to go to work for.

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Originally Posted by 4matic

MIS.......

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misinformation systems - lol

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Is that all you're concerned about... what happens when you fire someone? No wonder your DR didn't want to work for you if all you're waiting for is a chance to fire the guy. This kid has ZERO reason to worry about being fired. Unless he really fucks up when working on the road, or burns the place down, he is pretty secure. I worry more about him quitting to find a job where he can shoot more than worrying about the day he maybe makes a mistake.

I guess that's what makes my company a place people WANT to go to work for.

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different industry - different culture - relax man

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

I'm already home :D

Yeah, we go out and get drinks often. Maybe I'll just bring it up then as "just a little piece of advice you can take or leave."

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that's what my dumbass would likely do.

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Originally Posted by DBdude

different industry - different culture - relax man

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http://www.troll.me/images/walter/ca...an-you-are.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tye 1on

that's what my dumbass would likely do.

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Probably seems like the best course of action.

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Originally Posted by DBdude

4matic runs support staff in 24x7 environment, it sucks, somebody has to do it, not me thank goodness. usually I am all about the lols in this place, but I do understand where he is at. the support manager on my team is an absolute hard on. he is under resourced and lots of need/demand. it blows, glad I don't work on his team

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It does suck. 2000 servers and many times more applications to support globally 24/7. I have a great staff though and I'd do anything for them as long as they play as a team. Very low turnover until last year.

LOL!!

I can't wait to get out of work - nice dinner planned and then get laid

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

This kid has ZERO reason to worry about being fired..

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So, if you don't have a dating policy his fraternizing is none of your business. Manage his tasks. Our company, and most, have a policy about managers fraternizing outside work. It can be grounds for disciplinary action.

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Originally Posted by 4matic

So, if you don't have a dating policy his fraternizing is none of your business. Manage his tasks. Our company, and most, have a policy about managers fraternizing outside work. It can be grounds for disciplinary action.

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Oh for fuckssakes. You live and work in the stone age. I went to a client meeting in flip-flops this week. Most new companies (10-15 years old), especially ones that involve tech are shying away from those archaic mores. It's fucking ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Oh for fuckssakes. You live and work in the stone age. I went to a client meeting in flip-flops this week. Most new companies (10-15 years old), especially ones that involve tech are shying away from those archaic mores. It's fucking ridiculous.

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Actually, the culture you describe is outdated from the 80's.

Google:

Finally, romantic relationships between co-workers can, depending on the work roles and respective positions of the co-workers involved, create an actual or apparent conflict of interest. If a romantic relationship does create an actual or apparent conflict, it may require changes to work arrangements or even the termination of employment of either or both individuals involved. Consult Google’s Employee Handbook for additional guidance on this issue.

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

He's not breaking any official work policies. But when one of our SVP's that sits next to us brought it up with me (he asked if I noticed)... maybe it's time to say something.

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You think so? Maybe the SVP was giving you a hint about doing your job

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Originally Posted by 4matic

Google:

Finally, romantic relationships between co-workers can, depending on the work roles and respective positions of the co-workers involved, create an actual or apparent conflict of interest. If a romantic relationship does create an actual or apparent conflict, it may require changes to work arrangements or even the termination of employment of either or both individuals involved. Consult Google’s Employee Handbook for additional guidance on this issue.

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Is that it? Googles policy negates my entire argument? You said "Our company, and most, have a policy about managers fraternizing outside work." He is not a manager. We have no policy about interoffice dating. But, like most rational human beings we understand that should a relationship affect our work, we could be fired for not doing the work. Not for the actual dating. I will bet you any amount of money that their are interoffice relationships at google.

This isn't rocket science. I'm sorry your corporation is filled with a bunch of cocksucking hardliners that have a zero tolerance policy on human nature. I again submit, I think the dude quit to stay the fuck away from such a bitch.

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Originally Posted by 4matic

So, if you don't have a dating policy his fraternizing is none of your business. Manage his tasks. Our company, and most, have a policy about managers fraternizing outside work. It can be grounds for disciplinary action.

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Oh for fuckssakes. You live and work in the stone age. I went to a client meeting in flip-flops this week. Most new companies (10-15 years old), especially ones that involve tech are shying away from those archaic mores. It's fucking ridiculous.

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No shit. I couldn't imagine NOT "fraternizing" with my supervisors. It's where 1/2 of our creative ideas come from.

I work in an environment that was ~70% male when I started 17 years ago and is now probably 60% female. The backbiting gossipy bullshit level has risen dramatically in that time... and you need to know how to navigate it.

I'd do what you already have planned: talk to him this afternoon over a beer and clue him into the environment he's creating. Make no judgment and underscore that it's none of your business but that as a coworker/friend you just wanted him tobe aware of what you're hearing. Then change the subject to the BoSox or something unrelated to work - the rest is up to him.

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Originally Posted by irul&ublo

You think so? Maybe the SVP was giving you a hint about doing your job

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The way I worded it may seem like that, but no, you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

No shit. I couldn't imagine NOT "fraternizing" with my supervisors. It's where 1/2 of our creative ideas come from.

I work in an environment that was ~70% male when I started 17 years ago and is now probably 60% female. The backbiting gossipy bullshit level has risen dramatically in that time... and you need to know how to navigate it.

I'd do what you already have planned: talk to him this afternoon over a beer and clue him into the environment he's creating. Make no judgment and underscore that it's none of your business but that as a coworker/friend you just wanted him tobe aware of what you're hearing. Then change the subject to the BoSox or something unrelated to work - the rest is up to him.

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Thank you. As you know we work in sort-of-similar environments. These crusty fucks don't get it working for white-on-white miserable suit fucks. Will do.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

No shit. I couldn't imagine NOT "fraternizing" with my supervisors. It's where 1/2 of our creative ideas come from..

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It's part of our ethics training that I am required to do yearly. There are so many variables. For example. Let's say you walk into a strip club and your manager is there. What should you do? Answer is leave.. Never put yourself in questionable situations.

I'm just giving you all the skinny on a view from a global company with 3000 employee's that is owned by two of the largest Private Equity firms in the world. PE doesn't fuck around.

Oh there are still some crusty leftovers in my office - of both sexes. A couple years ago one lady (old enough to be my Mom, and I'm 47) complained loudly in front of our Bureau chief that she thought my wearing shorts on a 95deg day was "unprofessional." I simply retorted that I wouldn't fit into the sun dress she had on and wasn't about to haul around >100lbs of equipment outside in the heat and humidity in slacks and tie just to comply with her idea of proper attire. The boss smiled and acted like he heard nothing.

Heh - come to think of it I regularly get shitfaced with my direct supervisor. We even shroomed together at a Phish show 2 years ago! He's coming down on Tuesday to go see the John Butler Trio with me Wednesday night.

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Originally Posted by 4matic

There are so many variables. For example. Let's say you walk into a strip club and your manager is there. What should you do? Answer is leave.. Never put yourself in questionable situations.

I'm just giving you all the skinny on a view from a global company with 3000 employee's that is owned by two of the largest Private Equity firms in the world. PE doesn't fuck around.

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Oddly enough I HAVE walked into several strip clubs and found my manager in there. What I did was sit down next to him and ask if he'd ordered my drink yet and which girls he'd scoped out for lap dances.

I work for a company with well North of 10000 employees globally that is the largest News Agency on the planet. Don't try to impress me with your Wall Street "cred" bud.

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Originally Posted by 4matic

It's part of our ethics training that I am required to do yearly. There are so many variables. For example. Let's say you walk into a strip club and your manager is there. What should you do? Answer is leave.. Never put yourself in questionable situations.

I'm just giving you all the skinny on a view from a global company with 3000 employee's that is owned by two of the largest Private Equity firms in the world. PE doesn't fuck around.

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Funny, my company is owned by the second largest Adv/Marketing holding company in the world (merger talks broke down to become the biggest). Have offices in London, Shanghai, Boston, NY, Australia, Brazil and many small popups and people working remotely embedded with clients all over the world. And we're not a bunch of miserable fucks.

Guess what... your company policy and way of life are dinosaurs. Just giving you the skinny. Do you make women wear dresses or are they at least allowed to wear pant suits?

I'm so glad this turned into a "4matics: Business Policy From The 50's" thread.

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Funny, my company is owned by the second largest Adv/Marketing holding company in the world (merger talks broke down to become the biggest). Have offices in London, Shanghai, Boston, NY, Australia, Brazil and many small popups and people working remotely embedded with clients all over the world. And we're not a bunch of miserable fucks.

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I would advise you to read the employee manual and code of ethics. It's probably posted online.

some office cultures are more regimented and "professional"

some office cultures are more loosely organized and less by the book

this thread seems to be bumping heads of the two

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

this thread seems to be bumping heads of the two

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OP gets angry when you present a view he doesn't want to hear. A real professional. Lol..

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

pant suits?

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And I'm outdated?

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Funny, my company is owned by the second largest Adv/Marketing holding company in the world (merger talks broke down to become the biggest). Have offices in London, Shanghai, Boston, NY, Australia, Brazil and many small popups and people working remotely embedded with clients all over the world. And we're not a bunch of miserable fucks.

Guess what... your company policy and way of life are dinosaurs. Just giving you the skinny. Do you make women wear dresses or are they at least allowed to wear pant suits?

I'm so glad this turned into a "4matics: Business Policy From The 50's" thread.

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different culture dude. each has it's benefits and negatives. you don't want to work there and 4matic doesn't want to work on your team - that's what makes the whole thing work

you need to go take some continuing ed b school classes in organizational theorey, management etc. it will look good on your resume and I think you will learn something. it's not all black and white - each business/company is different and there is theorey/technique/out look that helps one deal and thrive

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Originally Posted by 4matic

OP gets angry when you present a view he doesn't want to hear. A real professional. Lol..

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No, I thanked everyone that gave real advice. When I told you our company doesn't work the way yours does, you go on about my company is wrong, and this is the way you do it, and this is how google does it. How hard is it to understand, your company is nothing like mine. Your "advice" isn't worth shit in my situation. Others mentioned pros and cons but your view is so left field from reality that it doesn't matter. I haven't been arguing with others with different opinions, just yours, that I mentioned are retarded in regards to the company I work for. You can continue to bloviate ad nauseam about something you really don't understand, or you could do the smart thing and shut the fuck up.

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Originally Posted by DBdude

different culture dude. each has it's benefits and negatives. you don't want to work there and 4matic doesn't want to work on your team - that's what makes the whole thing work

you need to go take some continuing ed b school classes in organizational theorey, management etc. it will look good on your resume and I think you will learn something. it's not all black and white - each business/company is different and there is theorey/technique/out look that helps one deal and thrive

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I know all that. When I explained our environments were different, he kept going on about how I was wrong. Maybe he should be the one to shut the fuck up and realize he doesn't know everything?

And why the fuck do you keep sticking up for the guy? Does he blow you after work for drinks or something?

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Originally Posted by 4matic

And I'm outdated?

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if you are wearing a pants suit, you are, and you are a cross dresser, nttiawwt

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Originally Posted by 4matic

And I'm outdated?

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http://x1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comme...08e06f51da.jpg

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Originally Posted by DBdude

if you are wearing a pants suit, you are, and you are a cross dresser, nttiawwt

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Heh.. I had a leisure suit. The Marissa Meyer/Cheryl Sandberg thing has changed the way women dress in the workplace for the better.

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

I'm so glad this turned into a "4matics: Business Policy From The 50's" thread.

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Where you are mistaken is that you believe codes of conduct and behavior in the workplace have gotten more liberal. They haven't. Quite the contrary.

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Originally Posted by 4matic

Where you are mistaken is that you believe codes of conduct and behavior in the workplace have gotten more liberal. They haven't. Quite the contrary.

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Ask any woman whether todays workplace policies or the 50s works better. It's a bell curve, and we are back on the way down. You are still stuck in the highline, heavy handed treat people like numbers bullshit that modern companies are trying to get away from. Don't get so upset man. I'm just trying to explain you have an antiquated view of the workplace. Don't judge the messenger, just change.

pant suit, isn't that an old TGR meme? I can't recall details right now.

FWIW, I work in what is often a fairly stuffy field (law), and I'm unaware of any "supervisors can't fraternize with their subordinates" policy. Heck, I got hired because I went to school with my now-supervisor, and we are old friends (I went to her wedding). Our unit has occasionally gone out for happy hour. But I don't expect to run into her at a strip club. ;) As for office dating, I think it's pretty standard to discourage or prohibit it, but it's also pretty standard to not formally act on anything unless there's a supervisory relationship involved.

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Originally Posted by 4matic

Where you are mistaken is that you believe codes of conduct and behavior in the workplace have gotten more liberal. They haven't. Quite the contrary.

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what's your reference point? We're not in the 1999 dot come policies anymore, and we're not in the Mad Men "guys can do anything" period anymore, but there are many many ways in which things are more liberal than they were 50, 40, 30, or 20 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Danno

pant suit, isn't that an old TGR meme? I can't recall details right now.

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'Tis the class tonghands TR, "The Pantsuit Effect."
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-A-Trip-Report

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

'Tis the class tonghands TR, "The Pantsuit Effect."
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-A-Trip-Report

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THANK YOU!

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Originally Posted by Danno

what's your reference point? We're not in the 1999 dot come policies anymore, and we're not in the Mad Men "guys can do anything" period anymore, but there are many many ways in which things are more liberal than they were 50, 40, 30, or 20 years ago.

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I've been in Silicon Valley tech (same company) for a long time. In the 80's we had kegs at work, during work. You could smoke in your office. Naked women posters in the shop and lab. Parties would rage at the office all night. There was no code of ethics or conduct. The expectation to work unpaid o/t was more heavy handed then it is now.

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Originally Posted by Danno

"supervisors can't fraternize with their subordinates" policy.

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As a lawyer you know one word can make all the difference. I said a policy on fraternization. Not "can't." And, it was on the ethics side not really the rule book so on that part of it, yes, there is no policy.

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Originally Posted by Danno

pant suit, isn't that an old TGR meme? I can't recall details right now.

FWIW, I work in what is often a fairly stuffy field (law), and I'm unaware of any "supervisors can't fraternize with their subordinates" policy. Heck, I got hired because I went to school with my now-supervisor, and we are old friends (I went to her wedding). Our unit has occasionally gone out for happy hour. But I don't expect to run into her at a strip club. ;) As for office dating, I think it's pretty standard to discourage or prohibit it, but it's also pretty standard to not formally act on anything unless there's a supervisory relationship involved.

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peach pantsuit. tonghands. great thread.

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Originally Posted by 4matic

I've been in Silicon Valley tech (same company) for a long time. In the 80's we had kegs at work, during work. You could smoke in your office. Naked women posters in the shop and lab. Parties would rage at the office all night. There was no code of ethics or conduct. The expectation to work unpaid o/t was more heavy handed then it is now.

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Ok, so that's your perspective. I expect that the women in the office (if there were any) would not find today's office environments more restrictive.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Ok, so that's your perspective. I expect that the women in the office (if there were any) would not find today's office environments more restrictive.

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Ironically yes, I agree, and makes the OP"s question that much more relevant. Just wait for one of those women in marketing to complain about Suave'..

tong hands story - in the hof- hilarious

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

No, I thanked everyone that gave real advice. When I told you our company doesn't work the way yours does, you go on about my company is wrong, and this is the way you do it, and this is how google does it. How hard is it to understand, your company is nothing like mine. Your "advice" isn't worth shit in my situation. Others mentioned pros and cons but your view is so left field from reality that it doesn't matter. I haven't been arguing with others with different opinions, just yours, that I mentioned are retarded in regards to the company I work for. You can continue to bloviate ad nauseam about something you really don't understand, or you could do the smart thing and shut the fuck up.



I know all that. When I explained our environments were different, he kept going on about how I was wrong. Maybe he should be the one to shut the fuck up and realize he doesn't know everything?

And why the fuck do you keep sticking up for the guy? Does he blow you after work for drinks or something?

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i just understand a bit better. I have worked for a lot of different outfits and he has a thankless job. and yes, you are as correct as he, maybe more so, again, it's all culture

i would handle it the way you would - i have been great friends with many of my managers - one in particular gave me great advise on kids and marriage and divorce while getting absolutely shit faced - a true friend and a great reference