i don't give a rats ass about ski wieght
heavier the better for dh performance
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i don't give a rats ass about ski wieght
heavier the better for dh performance
Said XXX'er never.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
PSA: Coming Soon
Project Resuscitation Rustler 11---Down but not Out
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Seeing this thread for the first time. Useful info here! Subscribed. Carry on.
Straightened 2 compressionsAttachment 245974. Used a small screwdriver to minimize further sidewall damage. The compression w/ the delamAttachment 245975, I was going to cut a patch so I could clean it out(edge was rusty in this area, so I'm sure it's rusty under base), but I'm going to see how well the g- flex works, out of curiosity. Especially since there really is no base damage.
I had to cut a pretty big base patch to start the fix on the core damaged coreshot. Since it was so big and right in the center, I had to make a jig/templateAttachment 245980. Put some index marksAttachment 245981 to align jig so you cut in the proper place and cutAttachment 245983Attachment 245989. Dry fit it 1st to make sure it's gonna workAttachment 245984.
The balsa core of this ski is damaged/crushedAttachment 245986. I have layed into it flexing it and it's all good. I'm going to consider my options on fixing this and figure out what I'm going to use to replace the damaged composite that stuck to base upon removal. Attachment 245987 You can see the composite stuck to underside of base. Piece next to it is how it should look.
Glue up is next phase!
@Tuco et al...
It's my opinion that simple edge compressions that don't damage the core/sidewall are probably best left alone.
[My opinion is, essentially, that unless you're a world class skier, and mostly skiing on *super-firm* snow (ice) you'll never notice the edge compression anyway. And if you're worried, you can always put the compression on the outside edge and it will be impossible to feel there.
Do you generally agree?
Here's an example; [Metal scraper held up to base as a "straight-edge" to emphasize/show the compression.]
Attachment 246178
Generally yes,Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorys
I would also say that a lot of compressions come with an associated delam(these^^ 2 did, so I went ahead and fixed them), even if there does not appear to be one. When the edge is pushed in, the areas of the edge at the outermost of compression will actually get pushed away from the composite because the metal stretches. Might be small, but if it lets water in, at some point it can be a problem
I got a pair of Moment PB&Js for cheap and found this near the tail. I'm not worried about the edge but the bubble that the base material has made is a bit worrisome. Any thoughts? Attachment 246393Attachment 246394
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Edge pushed in. That's an edge tab that's pushing up the base. Base delammed. You should fix that, because water will get in there.
I picked up some free Ranger 98's that were attached to some p14's I bought off gear swap. I knew the condition of the skis prior to delivery so I was not shocked when I inspected the edge compression...
That said, many thanks to tuco for his insight and direction as I tackle this repair
So far I have removed material from the sidewall and base, moved edge back to straight, cleaned out as best I could and I am ready to dry fit my base patch then epoxy all back together. The question I have is do I need anything in between the base patch and the edge keys? Or can I just slap the patch in with epoxy, clamp and cure?
Just epoxy, insert patch and clamp.
That edge needs more prep. Remove the rust.
For the patch, the side that gets glued might need to be:
1)abraded w/ 60-80 grit.
2)cleaned w/ alcohol
3)flame treated
prior to adhesive.
Not sure of the state Tognar sends its base material.
If the back looks like it has been roughed up, I would just skip to 2 and 3.
For flame treating, you don't need to heat it, just flash over it w/ the flame.
Looks good!
okay, a little more cleanup - figure i'll scotchbrite the edge keys to shiny and douche with alcohol again
thanks for the tips on the patch material - its pretty smooth on the backside so rough up needed, flame is to rid of little hairs?
will get cut to fit, prepped and hopefully epoxy ready for the weekend!
You want the flame to just touch the plastic and just flash across it. Oxidizes the surface for bonding. PE and epoxy don't necessarily play well together. Which, on another note, I would recommend g- flex.
If the backside is smooth- 60grit
Then wipe w/ alcohol
Flame treat
Mix epoxy and layitup!
now that i'm all caught up at work now i can get caught up on fixing this ski!
got things cleaned up a bit more and the patch piece all cut to fit snug, roughed up, cleaned and flamed - i lightly heated the area of the ski where the repair is taking place then epoxied the patch into place and clamped with some non stick between the plate and patch
i'm using the devcon...devlar? brand 12 hour epoxy - cant remember the name cuz the label came off, maybe for the next time i'll try the g-flex west system
hopefully the pics explain it all
Right on detuned!
Lookin good dude!!
Can't wait to see the results!
after a 12 hour + cure time i removed the clamps/plate and found a pretty damn solid patch in place!
i hacked off the major cured goop, filed and scotchbrite everything down to a pretty decent repair i think
the patched area is slightly raised, very slightly - like you can't tell by looking but it feels higher than the rest of the base
in the pics it looks like the edge is still a little wonky but it is straight, the sidewall is warped from the original damage - thought i bashed it back in place better than i did, oh well that'll be my permanent outside edge anyways
i might have a shop belt the bases flat and stone structure so everything is even and i'll hand tune the edges with a file/diamond stone - it's one of my favorite maintenance rituals with my skis, i don't know why but i like it
the bases themselves really aren't that bad, just a couple light gouges that p-tex ought to fill no prob, is there a way to easily plane the patch down to match the base better? i could save a few bucks on the base grind that way...
Hey there, loads of useful info on you thread! Is everybody using the clamp + screwdriver method to get their edges straight again? I cant seem to get it to work
and would it theoretically be possible to cut some base material out of an old ski and use it as a patch?
Nice work on those detuned, glad you are fixing them up and they will get some use
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Bruce! thanks again for the hook-up, hoping the repair will help these will prove worthy as a backup tour/light duty ski
Sims: i have read, re-read and read again all the info in this thread and had some conversations with tuco regarding this type of repair. all i can offer is to be deliberate with your screwdriver/hammer in returning the edge to "straight". i figured the egde is already bashed one way, me hammering it can't really hurt too much, right?
as far as base patch material i used new material as was recommended, try to find a local ski/board maker or repair shop that has new scraps of base material or order from tognar/svst - i ordered from tognar a one foot by six inch piece, cost like $12 with shipping
Clamp and a punch (various sizes) instead of a screwdriver for me.
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@detuned
How to flatten the patch... [without taking it to a shop.]
Best option, if you have it - the base flattener tool from Ski Visions.
Next best?
Sandpaper.
The new stuff from 3M at the big box stores is now wet/dry - and works well with bases. A little water keeps the 'tex from clogging the paper. [Mostly]
Wrap the sandpaper around something that's fairly true [flat in two dimensions]. I'd probably use a board that's something like 6" x 2 or 3" This acts as a "plane" - kind of like a wood plane. Now you can carefully work down the patched area.
I've also used sandpaper wrapped around a thick piece of say 2" Sch40 PVC. [I think mine's actually conduit PVC - but essentially the same.] That helps keep the cutting edge flat from edge-to-edge. Depending on what I'm doing, I may run this diagonally across the base, kind of like you'd run a file, while doing the base edges. [An actual file might well work well-enough too, especially if it's a large rough-cut file.]
100-220 grit works well. 100 grit will remove a lot of material fast, and leave fairly deep "structure" [gouges] - so take it easy.
I'd start with 150/220 and get a feel for it.
Added: Oh, probably obvious, but I cut the sheets into smaller sizes - 1/4 sheets usually works well. I just hold the edges with my hands, rather than some other method to fix it to the board/PVC.
Yes. When an edge is bent, it stretches the metal. Sometimes an edge won't go straight or in just breaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simsibimsi
One n done on base material
Striking force can be to localized, resulting in a break or crack. Not always, but your chances increase for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by detrusor
You should flatten by hand even before machine or ski visions.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorys
Method is in post #3 of this thread. Plane it off with a scraper. Keep scraper sharp w/ file. Work edge, then base and repeat till flat. Color your edge with a sharpie. It'll tell you when it's straight. Any base structure should be added after repair is flattened(or just skied, that's what I did with the repair on the Goliath's.)
Sending a repair with high spots through a machine can result in overheated edge and compromised repair.
tuco/gregorys; awesome info, yeah i read the beginning of the thread again - guess i just overlooked/skimmed the important scraping info
after scraping, sanding, planing and stoning the edges i finished the patch install. many props to tuco for not only starting this thread but giving me some really awesome pointers along the way
this patch turned out fairly flat but looks like there's room for improvement on the fit, appears to be some minor gaps around the edge - something to work on for the next one!
This isn't just an edge compression, but can you experienced repairers give me some advice on repairing my possibly cracked core?
As you can see from the pictures, a seam crack in the ptex base seems to extend from a ptex repair and seems like it's getting bigger suggesting a growing crack in the core/fiberglass. The top side of my splitboard is not showing any cracking.
I was thinking about grinding away some base material and trying to patch the crack with some carbon cloth and epoxy. Then patching the base. Do you think this will possibly work or a waste of time? I'd love to save the splitboard if possible. Many thanks in advance for any advice you have!
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Last picture is same area as first, but I picked out the ptex repair.
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I say time for new gear. Setup for catastrophic failure
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That looks pretty rough, but if you invest some time and money, maybe you could salvage this? G-Flex epoxy and carbon fiber cloth are probably your best structural choices after more exploratory surgery in that area.
Thanks, ctsmith and detrusor, for your opinions. I think I'm going to try ctsmith's idea. Any suggestions on how to remove ptex from the base so that I can get the epoxy/carbon cloth to stick to the core? How much area would you cover with the carbon cloth?
I'll, of course, try it out on some short tours just in case it does fail catastrophically. Thanks, again!
you'll need to remove the base material by cutting an area around the damage that extends into the part of the base that has not been damaged. remove the old, damaged material down (up) towards the topsheet until you are into fresh, undamaged material. this could mean getting into the wood or whatever material they used for the core.Quote:
Originally Posted by jindustry
you will have to then layer as best you can with epoxy, fiberglass, wood, etc..until level with the core leaving enough room to install a base patch that will match slightly higher than the original base (to leave material for grinding/shaving and structuring to match the original base
that broken edge looks like it needs to be replaced, find a local shop that does edge repair and buy a section from them and piece it in. its not easy or pretty but after its set in place you'll have to grind it and stone it to match the existing edge, it's a lot of work but it is rewarding getting more useful life out of your gear
good luck
If you look in this thread I think Tuco showed how to use a template(possibly a "can")of some sort to cut out the base area and use the same template to cut the replacement base material for a perfect fit. You can also salvage a piece of edge from a donor ski/board to replace the cracked/rusted section. Be careful post repair , once strands of fiber start breaking as shown in your core wrap area that can become very weak. That board could snap in half ate passing the eye/flex test. It's one thing to walk down a hill at a ski area but entirely different ball game if you have used that split board to head somewhere remote.
Thanks, detuned and fatnslow for the sage advice. I'm going to weight the risk of getting stuck far out in the backcountry before I attempt this. Maybe I'll limit the board to "close to the road" objectives if I attempt the repair.
More info in DerekPersons thread. Don't know how to link, so I'll just bump that shit to page 1. Looks like the pictures for some reason were lost in the last post. I'll try to fix those later, but still good info there.
I'll bump it and 1 of you
Hey guys,
Hoping I can repair these BC Labs, they've been great skis to me. I've cleaned out the sidewall and evened out what little damage happened to the base.
Next step is to cut out a patch out of some plastic such as a cutting board, place it in sidewall, and fill with g-flex/clamp it down?
I have uploaded the photos to my account, it looks like I can't attach them yet (forgot my old account username details and just created this one).
Thanks guys!
This is "one.arm.charm" from just above. I was able to log on to old account. Attachment 302830Attachment 302829Attachment 302831
Are you ok man? How did you manage that?
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^^SpaceX borrowed them for re-entry padding material.
Jesus.....did you hit a buried running chain saw? Wow this report has to be while you're bored in the hospital recovering. Vibes.Quote:
Originally Posted by onearmwanderer
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Sometimes you just gotta say "that ski is trash," and move on. IMHO this is one of those times.
I'm all about keeping skis for as long as possible but I've gotta agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chupacabra