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Can't tell from that pic what stripped: the pin or the wing? The pin (some kind of hardened steel alloy, maybe tool steel?) should be something like 20X or 50X or 100X harder than the Al alloy wing, so I'd be really surprised if the pin stripped. Is that Al alloy in between the threads? If so, that's evidence that the wing stripped. Possible installer error, i.e., not snugging the pin thus alloying it to wiggle?Quote:
Originally Posted by sfotex
Easy there tough guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Climber Joe
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using TGR Forums
post up some mounting prono!Quote:
Originally Posted by Climber Joe
Or at least some details - difficult mount compared to other tech offerings? screw pattern as it coincides with other tech patterns - getting mine mounted at shop but want to flop them on some fatties as well.
It felt extremely similar to mounting Dynafits. I was super careful about hole punches on the toe, and not super careful on the heel. Both bindings are basically spot on, the pins sink right into the boot. Adjusting the heel so its against the boot is also as easy as it sounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPostholio
I will definitely double check everything as per the Wildsnow walk through before I go touring, but everything looked fine.
The mount pattern is slightly narrower than a dynafit at the heel, and noticeably wider/longer at the toe. I wish it was wider in the heel too.
If you have any specific questions, fire away.
First post updated with first on snow review.
they aren't. remember the BD Pitbull? Silvretta SL? Dynafit TriStep? All kinds of binding turds foisted on the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by kootenayskier
so we've got n=1.
G3 Onyx first production iteration just to keep it Canuck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Conway
Never ever ever ski 55 degree inpenetrable snow on a "thoroughly-tested" first gen binding said the one eyed pissed off chinaman
Expect a template from BD within a day or two. Probably mount them next week. Probably ski them... never. Mean / Mega / Ridiculously Resilient Ridge is ruining all my fun.
What's best price on them right now? I know a shop that wants to move a bunch.
don't think anywhere is going very far under msrp right now. Very few places even have them in. Only bigger online retailers as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
Always liked Fritshi bindings. I'll stick to my Dynafits for now but I'll be keeping an eye on the kinks as they develop and how they get worked out.
Scored some for 5 hundo but it was package deal w/new skisQuote:
Originally Posted by splat
Had my first day on the Vipec/nunataq's yesterday. Conditions were shallow powder or tracked powder. Firstly - the nunataq's are amazing - I am extremely impressed. I will clearly need to ski them in more conditions.
On the the Vipecs. I chose these for the reason of added elasticity as I have had my dynafits pre release when they hit an ice block etc. I had usually skiied with the toes locked to help this problem but this worried me.
So, initial observstions:
- the Vipecs are more of a hassle to get into. You have to line up the toes carefully to get in and due to the different mechanism, the toe will close when it is not in the sockets. This caught me out the first time - however, a quick inspection lets you know if this is the case; a minor issue - not a deal breaker for me.
- the skiing "felt" solid - so different to my dyanfits which i have always give good ski control
- I had read some comments about stack height - but did not notice anything
- we did a short tour. Minor item - you have to step into the binding in ski mode before shifting to touring mode - this is to lock the brakes in the "up" position. As it is very easy to transition from ski mode to walk mode (you just push down the black lever at the back with you ski pole) this is no problem (just different)
- the touring was comfortable and i can see been able to switch so easily between the two modes will be useful
- I released when I should have in deep snow at the toe - this would have been much more impact on my knees than it otherwise would have been with dynafits.
- i hit an ice block on the piste that I did not see. No pre release and i worry my dynafits might have done so.
I think many of my quirks of the first day come down to thinking this is a dynafit binding with some different features. In fact, this is a very different design and has its own way of doing things.
So far happy enough - would prefer the step in was easier - but like the other feature enough to be happy with my call.
I will report back when I have done some more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPostholio
Jeezuz....I'll see what I can do.
edit: wow. they sold out at $600...
I get 496g per side, no brakes, no screws, but including the brake retainer plate which should also act as the platform for flat touring. I recall something about there being a replacement platform to run without brakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--...25287%2529.JPG
A bit heavier than the 470g WildSnow quotes: http://www.wildsnow.com/11140/fritsc...-vipec-review/
Just picked mine up and was kinda put off by not being able to just pull the brakes off - just read the wild snow post about the kit to run without brakes, but can't find it anywhere. Seems odd that all tech bindings other than this can support boot heel exclusively on the pins. Gonna do first tour with them tomm -Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmith
Happy with the price I got - not so happy to have to fork over like another 150$ to have cramps and run w/o brakesQuote:
Originally Posted by splat
Don't have to worry about that $150 just yet, I haven't seen any of the overpriced accessories/parts available at all yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPostholio
I don't see why you can't just run them with the brake retainer platform like my pic above ^^^. Not quite as elegant, maybe a couple grams heavier, but it should work, I think.
Wild Snow shows the replacement platform here: http://www.wildsnow.com/11868/fritsc...actory-review/
I heard they only brought in 800 total to North America.Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
Installed my inserts in the Vector BCs today.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/5m...w1634-h1090-no
Should be ready to go once the epoxy cures. I think I can just tie my B&D leashes into the loops in the toe piece and run without brakes. All I need is enough snow in Tahoe... who knows when/if that will happen.
First impressions from the bench:
-It is fiddly to click into the toe, my Speed Radicals are much easier.
-Should be pretty easy to use once the toe is in.
-The elasticity and lateral toe release feels good.
-I got really spot on alignment using the Fritschi paper template, and the screws used in the toe allow a good bit of play in the alignment. I'm really happy with that aspect of the install.
-We'll see about durability, but there are a lot of nice features here.
How was it setting up the boot? - guy in the shop went over the diff variables and it is quite a bit more complicated than setting up dynafits for sure. Had to put the bigger bump block in the toe piece so that the Vulcan toe would activate it for flip over release. He told me the heel had to sit on the brakes or the shim plate or it wouldn't release right - not sure I buy that. Let me know if you run them with neither under boot heel and it works OK.
Pretty sure the boot sits on the block anyway, and not on the brake itself. Judging by how far forward the brake goes anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPostholio
I'm sure you want one of the blocks under the heel of the boot, if only to avoid having a negative ramp. I just don't see how just using the block that comes with the binding (minus the brake) could cause a problem. The block and brake come separate in the box. As far as I can tell (pure conjecture) the replacement block is cosmetic and not functional.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPostholio
My TLT5s needed the "color clip high". I'm not as stoked on that part of the design, supposedly there's a better solution coming next season. I haven't set the toe pin on mine yet. There was a tech bulletin sent to dealers stating that the pins should be set with Loctite 2701 (if not done at the factory as will be the case going forward). I also need to figure out how to properly torque the locking nut.
Stats for first day with Vipecs
- 3.5k skinned
- 1.2k walked downhill
- 2 ruined toe pieces
Still waiting to hear back from BD rep, so I will be as politically correct as possible. The same problem mentioned earlier in this thread - where the pin loosens up and trashes the threads on the tow wing happened to me - on both bindings. One fell out completely and when I checked the other it was halfway out and
threads trashed on that side too. Most pissed about skis that I absolutely love (vector bc) being collateral damage if I return these. Went through entire set up with shop guy, but never touched them with any tools. Def my bad for not looking at them between laps to see it was loosening, but no way I had right stuff to fix them. If you get these, make sure you carry the wrench to check the nut periodically and see if it loosened up. If the nut is loose, the motion of skinning backs the pin right out. Just glad it popped out on the up instead of eating shit on the way down. Still love the theory of the binding mechanics, just don't think I will be part of this experiment.
Been on my Vipecs for a week now - skinning and skiing - had no issues and the toe piece is still solid - not sure what the tech folks did for me that was different to others - but happy enough so far.
The getting in the binding is still the main irritation - but finding ways to improve this via technique (but should not have to!) overall happy though as i have had some other moments which may have pre release with dynafits - but no problem here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPostholio
This is not the review I was looking forward to, although I am not surprized by early problems.
How did the binding work on the 3.5 of skinning and if I am reading right 2.3 of skiing. I hope BD takes care of this for you.
Me neither. Binding worked fine up until that point - as mentioned the toe entry is finicky, esp if use to radicals where you really force your toe in to initiate. For these the trick seems to be lining up square and hitting trigger BUT keeping boot at the same height. If you push down to ski level it closes above every time - you have to hit the lever and hover the boot. The heel elevation changes are nice though people that like a super steep skin track might find high position not high enough. Really liked the heel functions, not so much the toe. Will give them one more shot on new pair but it will take a long time to trust them and I will be checking that stupid nut on the toe pin all day. My guess is that there will be maybe three different depth fixed toe pins in the future that are spec'd for the differences in the tech boots - no way this will stay an adjustable feature that hinges on loctite as the cure.
Not the review I was hoping for either. I haven't had a chance to test mine yet, but am thinking of going for a precautionary dab of epoxy or something around the nut just to stop me thinking about it all the time. Any reason this would be a major error?
From what BD and shop guy explained, if it is loctite'd and torqued correctly you are good to go. I think it was major error on my part to not
A - have that size wrench and screwdriver bit with me to tighten pin if needed
B- not check something like that on each lap on first trip
Although it is a pain I will do this on next trip. My guess is that if it does not loosen in first few hours of skinning then it is set in there good.
Since the holes are already in the vector bc's for these, I am going to ride out the growing pains though will prob confine their travels to golf course riding for now.
If you are removing the brakes you need to still have that black plate on there so that the boot is not weighting the pins leaving the heel piece free to flex away from the boot on the track. If boot fitting sat solely on pins like other tech bindings this would not work or work less efficiently.
Just ordered a torque wrench and some Loctite 2701, stuff isn't cheap or easy to find. I guess our lack of snow translating to no hurry to get out on these is probably a good thing in this case.
Thanks for keeping us posted. Looks like it would be easy to make a replacement pin from threaded rod + nuts that could be installed if the toe wing threads fail.
I think it was you that noted at another point that the threaded pin was hardened steel and the cast toe wing is something softer. The unfortunate result of anytime you skin while the pin is loose is the ruining of the toe wing and essentially the whole toe piece itself is worthless. The binding as currently designed won't allow that one threaded wing to be popped off and changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Steve
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using TGR Forums
Just for some clarification did you set, adjust and tighten the toe pins after mounting? Or did a shop set and adjust the toe pins?
I have zero doubt that Diamir will replace the toe wings for you. We distributed them here in Canada for years and Diamir has always had a solid policy of fixing/repairing/replacing broken stuff. The only issue will be how much parts stock was brought over to BD with the initial product.
Timely discussion over at WildSnow: http://www.wildsnow.com/12293/fritsc...#comment-58836
Looks like Loctite 2701 isn't even distributed in the US. I'm thinking 270 should work? That's not even easy to get your hands on.
I did no adjustments, just watched shop guy go through the boot set up procedure. The fact that the loctite is an evolving post production solution tells me that toe set up will have to change somehow. BD and the shop that mounted are being great, but how long will they be able to fix this problem by throwing a whole new binding at you. That could add up quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by shirk
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using TGR Forums
You may get a new set, but the old set isn't discarded.
It will go back to the factory and they will replace the damaged parts and re-cert it and use it for future warranty replacement.
Think of it as a core exchange.
The first year new bindings go out for replacements, next year they'll use the refurbished ones.
That sucks.
chalk up another case for "their needs to be an actual tech fitting standard"
^^^absolutely. Ya, that makes sense, just like cell phone that craps out they will replace that toe wing and send it back out. The optimist in me wants to believe they had a robot skinner boot cycle like 100k straight on pins that were loctite d and one's that were just tight. Don't see how that ever happened with these to the degree needed.
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That is heavier than both my plum guides and vert STs, I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmith
I get 420g for Vertical ST configured this way (no brake or screws). So, yes, a bit heavier.Quote:
Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier
And if you really want to get picky, I didn't put the two screws in the brake retainer platform on the Vipec.
So far had a week of skiing and touring on these and no problem. I am in Europe so used Telemark P who were easily the cheapest but i have used them before and their techfolk seem to set things up well - increasingly grateful for this! The description of how to step in is exactly as described and you need to relearn how to step in vs the dynafit approach. Happy so far if somewhat nervous with the above tak!
updated my review. Another day of skiing on them with no issues.