PMGEAR needs your input

What Walter said.
I have a pair of DaKines that is very close to his ideas, but of course they are no longer on the market.

The lobstrosity trigger-mitts work very well for cold handed folks.
Better than mittens. Modular idea should include these as well as mitts and gloves.

A pass window on the back of the hand might get ripped too easily while brushwhacking. A window on the cuff of a gauntlet would be better.

A squeegee would need to be very soft. Like SKI-GEE rubber. The ones I've seen are too hard and likely to scratch lenses.
Maybe a soft wiper on one glove for rain and a harder one for ice on the the other? Make them different colors - pink for rain, blue for ice. Squeegee on the back of the base of the thumb.
Snotrag patch on the back of the index fingers.

For the retainer cord, a little stash pocket to tuck them into if not used would be a nice touch.

The wrist cinch strap should be narrow enough to accomodate the width of a watch. Say 2cm (3/4 ").


For me, price is not as important as function.

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Originally posted by Telenater
Removable liner. Remove the liners turn the shell inside out, and sleep with them in your bag when in the bc and they'll be dry and warm in the morning. That doesn't work so well with non removable liners. I like fleece liners because they're easy to care for and wash. Also, in spring, you can wear a liner or nothing for the climb up and just the shell for the way down. Sure they're a little oversized, but they still protect your skin from the wind and abrasion.

Long gauntlet. Close to elbow length. Keeps snow out when digging snow pits, snow caves and grinding ice for margaritas.

Two cinchs. One to pull the glove tight at the wrist and one at the end of the gauntlet.

More insulation on the back of hand than the palm. Also helps maintain dexterity.

Foam padding over knuckles, the back of the hand and down the outside of the gauntlet. Protects against stray branches and rocks that you might clip with your hand. Also, increased stiffness in the gauntlet makes it easier to pull on with gloves.

Bomb proof palm (you got the material already, but make sure that the material curves up over the finger tips and down the top to at least the first knuckle).

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That just about nails what I'm looking for in a glove. Also, that little goggle squeegie thing kinda sucks. I have one on my Burtons that seems like every time I wipe my nose rips the shit out of a cold nose (gonna need some soft fabric to wipe onto). Really annoys me. Why have I not cut if off is beyond me. Also, if you put the leashes on them, make them removable via a loop knot of some type, not all of us like them, but not all of us want to cut them off either.

how aboot one glove with the soft squeegee and the other with the booger guard? that way you get usefulness out of both of 'em. The scratching the of the lenses is a tough call though. so I guess when we start making goggles does it make sense to have a triple-ply kinda deal where the middle layer has the coating on it so you don't either scratch it while either wiping off snow off either side (in or out) or getting the fog out of the inside.

phunk's comment on the bushwacking/pass window are right on, at least on the east coast if you want fresh in the trees, you gotta be ready to keep branches and brush out of your face.

The warmest gloves I own are some generic brand but have a synthetic wool blend for padding. It think the warmth has something to do with feeling of my hand being snug in the glove versus warnout thinsulate. I like the idea of interchangeable liners with a gortex lined shell because then the gloves would be good all year long.

Draw strings at the end of the gloves that also work as "mitten clips" would be at nice touch.

Forget the 3 foot long gauntlet stuff to keep snow out when you yard sale. It's high time somebody integrated their gloves with their jackets, so that they functioned as one piece. A zipper and storm shield and you've got a more effective water/snow barrier than anything save non-detachable gloves on the end of the jacket arms. Make nice big zipper pulls so you can get them off easy, and it will be no worse than what we currently fight trying to keep some sort of seal between glove and jacket.

And I want the patent on this one.

ONS - don't delete this thread, I'll need it for trial :D

I like Nate's idea of the super long gauntlet, for sure. Just be sure that the gauntlet cinches up real tight to make it easy to pull your coat over the glove. What about a bomber, detachable gauntlet? I'm thinking about stuff where I'm constantly taking my gloves on and off (writing, working outside, avy classes) and it might be a pain in the ass to have a huge gauntlet. But the rest of the time.....mmmmmmmmm.

Make sure the palms are super bomber. I've diced more than one glove on my snow saw, and plain wore out a few others.

One thing to consider for a "patrol model" type glove would be to incorporate the hunter's glove model of an pointer-finger and thumb where you can essentially expose the tips of your finger and thumb by folding back the tips which velcroe to the glove. I know I'd find this handy when writing and also when putting in Mr. Copenhagen, packing a salad, or dealing with velcro, zippers, etc. Combine this with the "liner" underneath, and you're still toasty and bomber. Example: The Glacier Glove I use for hunting:

https://secure1.nexternal.com/gloves/images/951bk.jpg

I'd also like to see a very easy system of sticking the gloves together--like huge velcro patches or something instead of those shitty little clips. This would ease packing in bad weather and/or on the lift.

Finally, make 'em comfy!

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Originally posted by vinzclortho

Splat's built-in-pass-window idea is cool...

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Ah history...

The best gloves I have found are some Kombi gloves I found at Costco for $20 or $25. They are goretex and made from cordura/ripstop nylon material. The palms are covered with some type of textured rubber material which has held up great. They have elastic/velcro strap at the wrist and a unlined gauntlet with bungie cord at the top which you can tighten with one hand. The guantlets open wide and are stiff enough that they stay open making them easy to get on. They have more insulation on the top of the hand and less on the palm side so you have great feel and the finger liners dont feel like they are pulling away from the tips of gloves when you move them towards your palms like a lot of the more expensive gloves I've tried. I've used them for 4 50+ day years and the only problem I've had is that they are starting to come apart on the seam between the index and middle finger.

http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic15378.jpg

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Originally posted by Buster Highmen
Ah history...

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I don't ever remember suggesting that.......

I have a good memory, it just doesn't last very long?

Splat and Buster,

that was me and my lame attempt at subtle humor. Buster said he wanted the patent, so when I quoted him, i replaced Splat's name for Buster's.

:o

I think Buster should hold out for the patent on a camera/posting PDA, possibly a digicam, built into the glove for realtime posting from the slopes.

Hestra, which appears to have gotten soft (literally) had a nice psuedo-leather mitt at SIA with a cell phone built into it. They weren't showing any of the old burly goat hides they were known for.

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Originally posted by Cornholio
Seems like lots of people have said this, but this is my thought, too:

Remove the concept of a "liner". I want an "internal glove" and an "external glove", both of which can be worn alone.

I won't buy a glove without a long gauntlet anymore.

I haven't used little cords since I was six, but I've pretty much reverted to kindergarten-like behavior in every other aspect of my life, so why not?

Make sure your ultra-tough palm material wraps around the outside of the palm enough to ensure durability if one were to wrap a cord or rope around your palm to tug on it. Eg:

http://www.douglasgill.com/prod-745glove-180.gif

Seems like you have good ideas so far, doods. Keep it up!!

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I like this too. Internal glove and a mitten like my Outdoor Research Guantlet shells with sinch straps at the top of the gauntlet and as the wrist. Keep the kevlar on the Outdoor mitten and for the inner "removeable" glove, somthing like a cross country glove with waterproof leather palms and a snot wipe area. Thus winter and spring gloves and mittens all in one purchase. I like outside mittens shells that are bomber proof and inside "sleak, cross-country like gloves" for the inside.

Make things much easier when it is quite cold to pull of the mitten shells and still have you hands covered to put on gear, take off gear, smoke one, grab a beer from the back of the truck............

I only had time to skim this thread but great ideas all over.

The penguin glove thing is nice too as a snowboarder. I got a pair a few years ago that were pretty good, not bomber, but lasted 3 seasons. $45. I have no idea where Spats is shopping.

-Buzz

For a great example of a gauntlet that works check the Black Diamond Guide glove. Very pricey but very warm and dry. Only thing I'd change on the kev design is a nose friendly snot wipe. That glove is going to trash my skin, which is perfect, no?

I'd wager that a PMgear gauntlet uber glove at or below the $60.00 price point would sell like mad. So what can you do with another $21.00 in materials? Should be quite a bit.

Splat, check out the OR guantlet. I have a pair and I can send them with 2P if you want to take a look. I think the size of guantlet on these puppys is perfect. Hell, since I snowboard, I have to push myslf up off the ground at lifts and if I bite it in the pow. Biting it in the Pow sucks on a board when its feets deep and my OR mittens have never failed me in putting my arms into the snow up to my armpits to push out. Never have gotten snow in them for 4 years now.

Or you could just make the guanlet all the way to your armpit? :rolleyes:

I'm in the group that NEEDS mittens to keep my hands warm. I bought Swany mitts this year - which are working out nice.

I like the pocket for disposable heaters. Other people need mittens when it gets to 20 or so - I need heaters inside the mittens.

I prefer a removable liner (which mine currently don't have) so they dry better overnight, but unless you can get the liner to go back in without getting all tangled up (especially if it has individual fingers) don't bother.

I also absolutely need the idiot string to hold them on my wrists when I'm on the chair. If people think it's unnecessary they can cut it off. And I like the other string that tightens the cuff to keep snow out. Like others have said, the longer the gauntlet the better.

While I personally couldn't see using it, the goggle wiper is a good feature. I know it's the main feature Mr.AG looks for in gloves. And if you think it would trash your goggles, don't use it, right?

The Swanys are also nice because they have a soft sort of fleecy spot on the back for wiping your face off. But it doesn't soak up the water. No idea what it's made of. Also like leather or something grippy and durable on the palm side.

Aside from that, they just need to be durable. I had some Dakine mitts last year that were covered with duct tape by spring. Problems were mostly on the thumb - particularly from carrying skis.

That's all I can think of.

Here's my take. Stick with your core tenet-incredible durability at a great price. Adding bells and whistles might be nice, but if you are compromising durablity and/or price, then make sure they are must have, not a would be nice to have feature.

One more vote for a gauntlet style glove with removable/swappable liners, ala Hestra. Also, lobster style gloves are great. I had a pair that I really like, but the palm rubber material self destructed after half a season of use. Good R&D for you.

I have mixed feelings about using "waterproof" nylon laminates. The water resistance is temporary with laminates, and the breathability is so-so. Maybe look at a material with good wicking and insulation, something like along the lines of PowerStretch for the liner, then some sort of durable water resistant shell.

On a side note, I would be interested in a durable mtneering glove. Some of the new stuff by BD and Cloudveil are nice, but don't seem to be especially durable. I think if you could acheive the right combination of durablity, dexterity, price and warmth you'd have a winner.

soooo i guess all that gore-tex dental floss is not such a good idea? holy poop.

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I've got pass-pockets(windows) in my jacket and my pants. Can't see why I'd want em in my gloves

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Well some of us don't have rich boy pants and jacket with all you fancy do dahs!

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Originally posted by Crinkle
Rubber pyrex squigy thingy on the glove for wiping ice and crap off your goggles. I have a pair of Bonfire gloves with this, nice feature. Any questions i can post a pic.

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i second that i have one on the thumb and it works. and well the studs could be faat

how 'bout a lighter version for park and touring ?

These are the trigger mitts I have. Everything about them kicks ass except the price:

http://www.rbhdesigns.com/trig.htm

At Kirkwood my hands were never anything less than extremely warm. Sometimes I'd take them off to cool down!

Features of the RBH that kick ass and any ultimate hand protection should have:
-Trigger mitts are the best design, period. Warmth of a mitten, dexterity of a glove. People who won't try them are utterly missing out.
-Gauntlets. I don't want snow up my arms, and I don't want to have to fuss with my jacket's wrist velcro every time I take them off and put them on. Mid-forearm length is fine if they have a one-hand closure.
-Fleece nose wipe on back of thumbs. We all know why.
-Like the KevGlove, the entire palm and sides of the fingers are made of tough material (RBH uses leather, but Kevlar is fine too).
-Liner which velcros in all the way around the outside of the gauntlet. I can put the Triggs on one-handed, unlike insulated linerless gloves which require a struggle and are nearly impossible to remove when sweaty, and unlike unattached liners which you have to hold with the other hand so they don't bunch up or come out.
-The wrist strap is arranged such that it's really easy to tighten or loosen one-handed with gloves on. It's hard to see from the pictures but it works really well.
-The vapor barrier liners are REALLY fucking warm. Maybe this is an option, because the fabric is probably expensive.

Features the RBH doesn't have but I want:
-D-rings on the outside instead of leashes. Possible attachments include a hanger clip, a wrist leash, a hanger clip on a long strap, etc. I don't like built-in long leashes because they catch on trees and things, but lots of people do.