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Pesto, sounds like we were under the knife at the same time yesterday brother. Got mine done at USC's Keck Medical Center - all went well except the thing is swollen like a damn watermelon. Same as you in terms of other damage, clean as a whistle in there. Which ice machine are you using? Here's to a fast recovery and riding again next fall!
I'm impressively swollen as well.
I have a Game Ready machine it circulates cold water and applies compression on a programmed cycle. I'm loving it.
One of my nerve blocks just stopped working. Bring on the Norco.
8 days out. Had my sutures taken out today & had PT. Rode the bike (stationary) now in considerable pain...Norco FTW!
Terrible Triad, unhappy camper...I'm not sure if I am in class of 2012 or 2013. Snowboarder ran into me/over me on Dec. 26th in Breck and I knew in an instant that my knee would never be the same. Diagnosed with torn acl, torn mcl, torn medial meniscus and avulsion fracture, right knee.
I have seen two Dr's. Both are renown for ACL reconstruction, they both gave me opposite opinions. One says, yes, torn, have unstable knee on exam, need acl reconstruction (his preferred method is allograft for my age of 53; but agreed to autograft, my preference) His preferred autograft is patella tendon. I have surgery scheduled with him March 26th.
I have been doing PT to heal the MCL and my knee feels ever so much better and its almost hard to believe that I need surgery except the meniscus hurts.
The other docc I saw for a second opinion says my exam is a little unstable, MRI is hard to read and he advised "conservative" treatment. I told him I am an active woman, want to return to my sports. I am a slalom waterskier, a weekend warrior snow skiier, play tennis and swim....he said I could do all that except serious bumps with a scarred acl. That I should do PT and see how it goes, if not too well, he would scope me, fix meniscus, says ACL is sprained, not torn necessarily.
So I sent the MRI to steadman Hawkins Dr. Hackett; he says meniscus, ACL, MCL, all torn, need surgery. Don't even think about trying to ski, waterski or anything; I will end up dislocating with more injuries if I do. He broke the tie, so I scheduled surgery with the original doc.
I am not sure I want the patella tendon autograft vs. hamstring autograft? Is there any difference for people over 50? I already have anterior knee pain due to the meniscus and seriously do not want chronic anterior knee pain. On the other hand, is there any way to know how useful my hamstring tendon would be prior to surgery?
Also, should I have another doc who can examine me give me another opinion since there is some doubt in my mind because one of the docs thinks I can get away without surgery? Or find someone who has experience and is willing to do the hamstring autograft?
And what is the current best treatment? Using a CPM? bio screws, titanium?
This has been a frustrating and confusing 2013, glad I found this forum, and am hoping for any light that can be shed on my situation...
Thanks!
Do you rent these game ready things or buy them? Where? My doc just says ice, ice, ice and when I asked if they have packs or anything at my pre op appt. they said not anymore because of liability issues. And no CPM either...should I run to another doc?
shekat,
So so sorry about your injury. It's definitely the exact opposite of a good time. The best advice that I can give is to research what's going on in your own body. Go through the 2012/2011 forums and learn as much as you can from other people's experiences. Decide what you want for your knee and what you are comfortable with. Then, find a doctor who specializes in that and whose values and goals align with yours.
It's strange that they don't have any packs for you. I didn't use any machines, but I did purchase a compression ice pack from my PT. Are you seeing a PT? What is her/his opinion? First and foremost, educate yourself and then, find a doc who you trust and believe in. Don't settle. It's your knee, and from your tone, I didn't hear a lot of faith in the person doing your procedure.
My wife had ACL reconstruction with hamstring autograft (32 years old).
Post-surgery, we were given a Polar unit one by the surgical center.
It is a cooler into which you put ice and water, and a pump is built the lid which is connecting to tubing and a sleeve that you wrap around your knee (put a compression sock or something between sleeve and skin, or else you can get burns from the cold).
My wife swore by the Polar unit post-surgery. Had it on almost all of the time for the first week or two.
I find it strange your doc won't give you one.
We went for PT pre-surgery and the physical therapy place had a bunch that you could sign out.
If you go to PT pre-surgery (I'm guessing you may not with terrible triad), you should ask them.
All the best to you in your journey, shekat.
Well, looks like I'm signing in for the class of 2013. Saw the Ortho on Wed. and he said he's 95% sure it's the ACL based on a Segond fracture shown on the Xray and his physically evaluation of the knee. MRI early next week to confirm/deny and potentially identify anything else, status of meniscus, etc.
Injured the knee on Sunday, and hurt like hell and swollen for 2 days after, but has felt dramatically better since then. Easing off the crutches and bearing weight for short times/distances. Flexibilty to about 90 degrees and swelling is going down quickly.
No script for PT pre-surgery, but he walked through a bunch of stuff to be doing - static quad contractions, straight leg raises, floor slides, hamstring and calf stretches. Stationary bike when I'm up for it.
Anything else anyone recommends, particularly to try and build hamstring strength?
Docs preferred method is Hamstring autograft, which I am totally fine with.
Stats:
Me: 34 Yrs old
When: March 10
Where: Loveland
What: Torn Left ACL (assumed, waiting confirm from the MRI) and Segond fracture of the tibia based on the Xrays, hopefully that's it
How: In some cut up pow on Jelly Roll caught a shark underneath (probably a rock but based on hazy discussion with two guys near the crash site might have been the ski that one of them was searching for) and went tumbling. Ski did not release. Knew my knee was fucked before I came to a stop.
Update: Day 3 post-op
No more nerve blocks, no more norco, and amazingly, almost no more pain! I can walk around pretty easily with the brace, and fairly well, although very cautiously, without it. Range of motion on the constant motion machine is up to 65 degrees with no pain, haven't pushed it past that because why rush things. Aiming for close to 90 degrees by post op visit on Tuesday. Extension to -5 degrees was the easiest part. Sleeping through the night again and beginning to regain my independence around the house, which feels great. Icing constantly throughout the day when I'm not on the constant motion machine, taking 400mg of Ibuprofen every 6 hours for swelling. The first day or two is the worst, but it DOES get better!
Edit for thruthiness: I had a large (previously undiscovered) novacaine-toma that had developed around my femoral nerve, and thus I had novocaine action long after I pulled the second nerve block. Now that it's worn off, I have mild pain. Can still walk, still at 65 degrees. Onward.
Glad to hear those of you that have just gone through surgery are doing well. Best of luck to those getting ready.
Not much new for Mrs. Flounder. She had the MRI last Monday as the ortho group wanted the MRI prior to setting an appointment. We got a voicemail thursday giving her an appointment with a surgeon on April 5th but no other information. She called to try and get more info on what she should be doing in the meantime but no return call yet. So like most people these days she turned to the Internet to diagnose and she believes (hopes) it is MCL related. Shes 44 years old, and it was a slow speed fall on February 26th at Northstar trying to avoid a kid that cut her off and stopped right in front of her.
We're hoping she's right about the MCL as it seems that surgery isn't required. Already she isn't using her brace much at all. She hasn't used any pain meds since a couple of days after the accident, just ice. As a kindergarten teacher she's on her feet all day and has been doing ok. She has almost full range of motion. She's thinking the MCL because it is only the interior of her right knee that has any instability and it seems to be strengthening. It's amazing how far it has come in 3 weeks.
Any thoughts from those with similar experiences? It seems like she can start exercising. I'm setting up one of her bikes on the old cyclops trainer this afternoon and she may try some low resistance spinning. It'd be great if she could rehab the until the end of the school year and have a normal summer. I guess we will know for sure on April 5th but she doesn't want to wait 3 more weeks to find out. Can't figure out if a long wait time is a good or bad sign.
Flounder, Call the place that she had the MRI. You can get a copy of the radiologists report.
Thanks. Hadn't thought of that. It's all the same hospital group. Probably easier to get that released than to get pre appointment info from the specialist.Quote:
Originally Posted by pesto
Well she was partly right, she did tear her MCL. Unfortunately she did the ACL as well. Surgeon called her back this evening and gave her the go ahead to start biking on the trainer. He told her to research before her April 5th appointment and to schedule surgery when she wants.
Here's a question I'm hoping to get some insight on. She wants to do surgery during either her April vacation or wait until summer. The drawback of waiting until summer is the whole time will be spent on rehab. As a teacher is it realistic to think she could have surgery and be back in the classroom after 10-12 days? If so then April could work which would give her about 6 weeks of rehab before summer.
Thanks. Probably more questions as we progress.
Being 13 days post-op on ACL replacement only, I would say she might be able to swing it in April. She should go see a physical therapist as soon as possible and start the pre-op training. I wasn't really able to get around until about 8 days post-op, but have been able to walk fine since. If she can sit during class, she might be able to pull it off.
I was looking for feedback on when all swelling goes away, but looks like I was actually the first of you all to join the class! My recovery has been so, so, so much easier than I've witnessed in others. Crossing fingers that continues.
My surgery date was Feb 22. I choose cadaver hamstring.
I had a fermoral block and took pain meds for only day 1 after surgery and then moved to advil for 3-4 days. Crutched around my neighborhood for fresh air day 3 onwards.
I'm now 3.5wks post surgery. I walk well w/o knee brace in safe environments (home and office), cycle on my road bike mounted on trainer, can do stairs. I wear the brace to protect myself from crowds on public transport/stores.
I still have modest swelling that I work through each day during flexion exercises. The patella and p-tendon are irritated from the swelling, but all these issues get a little better each day I wake up (although, now experiencing diminishing returns compared to rapid daily changes weeks 1-3).
Stats:
Me: 32yr female
When: Jan 13th
Where: Kirkwood
What: clean ACL tear and a heck of a tibia bruise
How: Still can't comprehend... executed a perfect gymnast landing after skiing off a ridge at the end of a tree run created by the groomer working the perpendicular cat track. No fall or twist. But I came to a dead stop and my knee took all the impact. Assumed tibia plateau cracked....alas.
Flounder, it's possible, but depends on her healing trajectory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder
I've seen family and friends grit through patella autograft for weeks, not able to go to the office. I was bouncing around on my crutches every moment I could the next morning.
Regardless, she won't be able to stand/walk for long periods of time until week 3 at the earliest I think. It'll be uncomfortable and make the swelling worse. So if she's a kindergarden teacher who needs a lot of mobility, maybe not the best decision. But if she's an english lit high school teacher who can sit with her leg propped on a trash can, she can be back to work quickly.
Also, I was cycling, hiking and doing body weight squats right up to the day before the surgery. If it doesn't hurt, she should stay active. But if it hurts, don't do it.
Hello all,
I am sad to announce my membership in the class of 2013.
But proud to join such fine company!
Age: 45
Date of injury: 2/28/13
Surgery: 3/7/13
ACL and miniscus clean up
method: achilles allograff, spinal, femoral block
Game Ready continuous, NO constant motion this time!
PT 3/14: extension at 0 degrees, flexion at 90 degrees
PT 3/18: treadmill, shuttle, cycling, stem. 0 degrees/110 degrees
Observations: Compared to same injury ten years ago (left leg that time) much prefer the allograft vs the autograft.
this time Im not recovering from two injuries! No CM machine this time was on the recomendation my esteemed Ortho who used to push CM but no longer. After using nothing but the GameReady machine almost constantly and working the extension as much as possible I fully agree compared to ten years ago when I did not have a Game Ready but always had my leg in the motion machine. ---I was swollen for weeks. After getting drained on 3/13 and still using game ready I have just a little swelling compared to ten years ago. Swelling control is most important early on and continuous. Good luck to everybody!
Jksparky- sorry to hear about the knee but glad it's going better than the last one.
MRG girlwonder - yes she's a kindergarten teacher so lots of mobility required. She's torn between waiting until mid-June and losing her summer to recovery or doing it in April and salvaging a bit of summer. Sounds like waiting may be better. She's ditched the brace this week and is starting to bike on the trainer. Going to start some strength exercises as well. The MCL has to heal before the ACL can be done so April surgery may be a moot point anyways.
Thanks everyone.
Flounder, I had 2 elementary teacher friends blow theirs in 2011. They both waited more than 3mos until the summer to do surgery. Had successful outcomes and appreciated being able to rest w/o work hanging over their heads.
One did patella. The other was a revision using allograft.
Sent from my DROIDX using TGR Forums
Posted in here when I had my surgery, which was March 1st, approx 3 weeks ago.
Have to say I'm incredibly happy with how recovery is coming. I'm on the exercise bike, balancing on one leg on the half moon bouncy ball doing half squats and can extend to 0 degrees and flex to about 120. Last week in a St. Patty's day pub crawl I'm fairly sure I walked about a 1.5 miles and even have trotted a few hundred steps alternating with walking this week. Back to taking walks in variable terrain in parks.
I've been pretty aggressive with the recovery plan but I think it's really paying off, and my physical therapists are pretty amazed with how quickly my recovery seems to be going. At the beginning I really flexed into it till you feel that intense tightness and holding it, and once walking going with no brace and focusing on normal movement. It still feels tight but is starting to actually feel strong again.
Good luck everyone
Nice G! Keep up the good work. My surgery was in the 6th but I'm
Considerably further behind than you are. Yesterday was my first with no crutches. Still can't do squats due to meniscus healing...but riding the bike 1hr each day (first few pedal strokes are tight) really helps the knee loosen up. Still trying to get to 0 ext (frustrating but already at 110 flex). My physical therapist is amazing. So grateful for how smoothly everything has gone so far...
The hardest part is that it's dumping snow right now....
well, MRI confirmed that unfortunately I'm official a member of the class of 2013...
next appt. with the ortho April 1st to schedule surgery date
actually feels really good pain and swelling wise, but can def. feel the instability
ROM is good and just riding the bike to keep it getting better, doing plenty of core and upper body work to keep from going nuts (along with the leg "pre-habbing" excercises at home nights).
Going up to LL tomorrow with the fam and having me be the one inside with the baby while my wife takes the other kids out is going to be downright painful, especially with new snow...
Hi Snow Gypsy,
It's not that I don't have faith in my surgeon, I just don't have faith in acl reconstruction and knee surgery. I have dreaded knee problems and am stilll pretty devastated to have joined this club. My surgeon has been highly recommended by other orthopedic surgeons who have seen him in the OR and said, "This doctor is like Roddick (tennis champion) and my doctor is like Federer (tennis all time great, known for graceful strokes, etc.) A guy who specializes in hip replacements told me that he wouldn't let anyone else touch his knee or shoulder. So, as a surgeon, I have utmost confidence.
I have read Martha Murray, M.D. and many other meta analyses of acl reconstruction and the sad story is that we are all about 5 years too early. Research is being done to regrow our own native 17 strand ACL's back and not have donor site morbidity issues, or allograft failures. I called her and asked if I could be in her study and have her try to do a native repair, but you have to be under 35 for her. If I were under 35, I would definitely check her out!
In the meantime, I've had my pre op. Have my Breg Glacier Ice Machine all set, my elevation wedge, my toilet grab bars installed, my smartcrutches all outfitted with little crutch pouches for my lip gloss, phone, money, sunglasses and keys. Got a backpack for other stuff, water and meds by the bed and all linens washed, almost done with the rest of the laundry, taking my antibiotics, getting ready for the big day Tuesday. Monday, I have to find out if I have to have home health come to my house for antibiotic IV's 12 hours post surgery. Weird, but my doctor wanted an infectious disease consult clearance and that's what he ordered. Vancomycin IV's before and after surgery because I tested positive as a staph carrier...? So that seems to be the last detail to take care of.
I even upgraded my netflix account to unlimited streaming and ordered some dvd's that are just for me....
I have rides for the first 3 PT visits and not sure about any other rides, but I am curious how long any of you couldn't drive? With a right knee surgery?
Another big worry is getting in and out of my very non handicapped house. I have a very steep driveway and uneven walkway, and stairs to get in the front door, and the only other option is through the basement, but even though it's a flat walk, it requires an entire flight of stairs. My PT says to use the basement and then crawl up backwards on my butt up the stairs. Ought to be fun. Going out even more interesting...I think I can do it if someone else carries the crutches, but alone? Not sure.
Also, don't know if any of you who are over 50 like me (53), but age seems to impact how these doctors treat these injuries. And when you are an active 53 year old, it's hard to discern whether they are giving you options based on their age bias or best treatment. The doc who said I should not do surgery obviously thought I was too old to hurt myself skiing or waterskiing. I must not do it hard enough or maybe he didn't think I really do those things. Because my doctor showed the MRI to me and was astounded at the other one's option. So was his mentor at the Steadman clinic. So it's apparently a problem.
I drove 2 weeks out of surgery.
An autograft / allograft that is rehabbed correctly, statistically speaking, is no more likely to snap then your other good ACL is. In fact your knee can come back even stronger. It's all about what position your leg / knee is in...when you apply the torque that leads the ligament to snap/fail, not whether its real (your og ACL) or a graft,
You'll be fine. In fact, I've read that a repaired ACL is 212% stronger than the natural ligament after 1 year of healing.
I also live up 2 flights of steep stairs. Getting up on crutches is actually easier than down. (I didn't try the butt slide thing...impatience). Work on upper body and shoulders this month :)
Lastly, I've noticed amongst my friends and family that activity level in fitness trump age when it comes to recovery. Those more active and fit going into the surgery got back faster.
You're going to do great!
Quote:
Originally Posted by shekat
not the club I wanted to join, but I'm all in now-
me- 33 y/o male
when- march 22
where- snowbird
how- little air to unbalanced landing, squatted it out, thought I had recovered when my inside tail caught, spun me, pop pop, and I was down. knew it wasnt good.
what- ACL and MCL, both 3rd degree. will find out more with the MRI this week. people at the snowbird clinic were top class I must say.
What can I say, dumb fall at the wrong time. I have plenty of worries about the whole thing now, but going to just take it as it comes, stay positive, work hard for optimal recovery. Glad to be in such good company at least.
And did I mention how much I love an iced cold knee right now? Life's little consolation prizes make me smile.
I was driving stick 8 days after a right knee autograft, not all that fun but I needed to get to pt. 10 days out now and I'm off crutches and don't even need the brace around the house. Get yourself a CryoCuff off eBay, great investment. Has anyone else noticed that the repaired leg is a bit duck footed now? Hoping that goes away with strengthening...
My right knee is a little duck footed after repair and has remained that way (17 years). I've always joked that the dr didn't put me back together straight. My sister and some other friends are the same way. It doesn't seem to have had any negative impact on any of us. Left foot seems pretty straight. My completely uneducated guess is that it has to do with way the surgeon places the graft. But who knows...
No turning back now. Surgery scheduled for 4/9.
Took me this long to get it scheduled 'cause I wasn't sure what doc I wanted to go with and needed to consult about my shoulder as well.
Going with hamstring autograft. Don't like what I've read about potential downsides to allografts and only upside is that recovery time is quicker & less painful and no potential loss of strength in the hamstring. I'm planning to start a rigorous weight training regime ASAP so not too worried about the hammy strength - it never particularly affected my right leg anyway.
Present.
sorry to hear it, spindrift!Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift
Had the dreaded surgery on Tuesday. Signed consents for patella autograft, meniscus repair/menisectimy, chondroplasty. Chose my surgeon after checking out and being evaluated by two others. Had to go in am hour early for an antibiotic drip. Then, femoral block, then to the OR, still with great trepidation. Woke up to my surgeon's ecstatic smiling face waving pictures that I couldn't see without glasses. The nurse put her glasses on me and I could see an intact ACL. It had been almost 100% torn, but had vascularisation and reattached to the femoral condyle. It is as if, he said, I have a native ACL repair 3 to 4 months into the healing process. Says that this only happens less than 3%. I grabbed him around the neck and hugged him. He took 10% of my meniscus and I got out of there with 3 incisions instead of 6 and a report that my surgeon signed, "We/you are very lucky!! God smiled on you. He moved my post op appointment up and is having me fitted for a custom brace. New pt orders and new prognosis. Might be able to waterski by next fall. I am still amazed. And so relieved.
So, day two post op. seems nerve block has worn off, but not completely. Not too swollen, taking Demerol with breg ice machine. Surgeon took his probe and yanked on the healing ACL to make sure it was attached. He said it would cause swelling and pain, but most of it is from the meniscus work, I guess. Knee feels weird, throbbing. Walked on it cautiously. Now, just keeping it elevated with a 12 inch foam wedge and the breg glacier ice machine. Still using crutches, feels too weird not to.
Shekat, that's awesome! I always thought that many people tear an ACL and it heals on its own ever knowing.
I'm done w/week 5 tomorrow. Just over 130 degrees now, so less emphasis on getting the bend back -- just focus on letting it come naturally now.
I have minor swelling below the knee cap still and getting up after sitting at the computer is stiff. But my patella tendonitis / pain behind the patella is basically gone. Just feel it going downstairs or trying single leg squats to bench. Been instructed to take 4 days off of cycling/strength to see if we can ditch the last of the swelling.
Been stable enough to not wear brace for about a week now. Still wear it at night since I move a lot in my sleep.
Hope recovery is well for others!
I am day four post surgery and for some odd reason yesterday was better than today. Today, my knee swelled up bigger than ever and went numb again. Not the whole leg. Just about two inches above and below. Freaked me out. Couldn't get feeling back or swelling down, iced, elevated, nothing different. Called doc, on call doc said likely too much activity. Said if no better by Monday to call my doc, meantime if calf pain, go to emergency for DVt. A bit worried, anyone else have this?
Really don't think it could be over activity. I was gonna try my bike/trainer but decided against it, walked a few times without crutches, but mostly elevated, iced. ...???
count me in.
going to mexico tomorrow. well actually today. in like 3 hours. then figure out surgery when i get back in a week.