^^^^^what if you're not? seems pretty selfish.
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^^^^^what if you're not? seems pretty selfish.
I don't think so. I've been cat skiing before where everyone is required to wear a beacon, but only the guides are wearing packs with probes and shovel. It's sort of an insurance policy. If you are inbounds patrol can probably get to where you are quickly. Wearing a beacon is not inconvenient, wearing a pack is.Quote:
Originally Posted by oftpiste
Quite the justification.Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
Maybe there is a market for thisQuote:
Originally Posted by The AD
http://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/ima...1f5/SnowBe.jpg
after all...
I wouldn't expect anyone to dig me out if I wasn't prepared to do the same for them...
What if the guides got buried? If I was in an inbounds slide or stuck in a treewell or something, I'd much rather rely on my partners or someone skiing by that could help before 1. someone noticed I was missing 2. figured out where I was missing 3. told patrol 4. patrol came to find me based on 2nd hand (or worse) information. I can't hold my breath very long. Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
Wearing a pack with my gear is as natural to me as wearing my seatbelt, or my helmet, or my boots. Now, not having my gear if I needed it would be pretty darn inconvenient, especially for the person I was trying to rescue.
I can see not wearing a beacon or carrying gear if all I did was rip groomers or play in the park.
OK, so everyone else is saying that somehow you're better off without a beacon. Personally I'd rather have one in case I get buried. Yes, agreed it would be nice to be fully geared, but realistically most people aren't going to do that inbounds. I'm not saying everyone out there should be wearing a beacon, but if you do have one, why not use it?
Do you guys also not wear a seatbelt unless everyone else in the car is also wearing one?
Agreed. And we're not talking about inbounds. We're talking about skiing in avalanche terrain. At xtal, there is absolutely avalanche terrain which is technically inbounds and controlled, as well as easily accessed, uncontrolled side and back country skiing.Quote:
Originally Posted by concretejungle
Skiing with professional guides on heli or cat trips (I've had the same experience but the guides always welcomed another skier carrying a pack as long as they had some idea of what to do with it if needed) is a different equation. They're in the business of keeping you safe, there's always a tail gunner guide, and many of their guests have no clue how to use the gear beyond what they learn in a 5 minute talk before getting in the cat or heli which is a hindrance in the event of a problem. Inbounds is a different issue as well. At xtal patrol took long enough to get there that she could have been dead if not for the skiers in the area.
Wearing a pack is not that inconvenient once you get your gear organized properly and have the right pack. In the nature of full disclosure, I have always been one who preferred an unencumbered (by beacon and pack) inbounds skiing experience and still do, but my main ski pals like to do spur of the moment OB lines on a fairly regular basis so I'm converting to carrying both unless there's really no possibility of going OB or I'm simply feeling lazy enough that I don't want to walk up hill (not uncommon for me) and know I'll be staying in safe terrain.
Losing friends and knowing others involved in serious slides has definitley sharpened my awareness of these things, and I really don't want to be in any sketchy terrain with someone who only cares about their own safety and not that of everyone in the group.
I think you guys are missing my point to a certain extent. I agree that the best scenario is that everyone has gear and knows how to use it. That's obvious. My point is that if you have a beacon you might as well wear it at all times that there is any chance you could be buried and I don't see how that is somehow being selfish. If you are going backcountry skiing with a group and you're wearing just a beacon any relying on everyone else that's completely different.
I guess my feeling is that if you're in a situation safe enough not to carry a pack, there's not much point in wearing a beacon either.
Here's my flowchart:
Am I skiing*? If yes, wear beacon and kit**. If no, do not wear beacon and kit.
*for me, skiing at Baker where the boundaries are open and the inbounds, controlled areas can get pretty darn sporting, my partners and I prefer to have the option for properly-equipped backcountry travel immediately instead of having to return to the car to get our gear. There's also the inbounds self-sufficiency idea I already mentioned. When I'm traveling I'm sure as shit wearing my full kit because I probably don't have the same knowledge of terrain and snowpack as I do at home and I definitely did not travel to ski groomers or park.
People can justify their actions however they see fit. The above works for me.
**photo of my kit as carried yesterday and tomorrow.
http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0993c18f.jpg
Clockwise from top left:
skins, shovel, probe, saw, extra gloves, harness, Float 22, "Safety bag" (first aid kit, cpr mask/gloves, 50' knotted p-cord, space blanket, fire starter, strobe, multi-tool), water bottle, knife, spare goggles, headlight, compass, snow study kit, voile straps, yowie/buffs.
Add an extra layer and food per daily requirements and I'm good to go just about anywhere that's not glaciated.
First thing patrol will do is a beacon search < shrug > all the high horses in the world ain't going to make people competent rescuers, that ain't going to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by oftpiste
true dat, but I still maintain the above. If you're anywhere anyone might need to search for you you should prolly also have your kit.
^^^isn't that really up to you and your party's risk acceptance? especially in-bounds.
Although I agree that a good Samaritan would keep it around to help people not in their party as well. But if everyone starts wearing beacons in-bounds, you are going to see more people not knowing how to turn them to search and fucking it up anyways, as this video shows.
And patrollers w/o beacons and taking false credit for the rescue? I hope I'm wrong, but are there any patrol veterans who could comment on if they think standards are falling or what? Just mentioning because of the crazy number of crazy incidents lately
Hop, I'm a little curious about the inclusion of a harness (on it's own?).Quote:
Originally Posted by hop
It's nice to have if I need to anchor in to something (using the P-cord or a rope if available) when cutting cornices and so forth. Definitely not something I use every day but since it weighs about 8oz, why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
I also decided that I don't need the ruler since my probe works for that too.
I can't say for sure, I didn't check all patrollers for their beacons, but, i heard one patroller asking another if he could search a particular area, cuz he didn't have his.
And I agree, ideally everyone carries beacon/shovel/probe. Mandatory in uncontrolled avy terrain. for those that prefer not to carry a pack inbounds, why not at least wear the beacon so that others including patrol have an easier time finding you. obviously, not much help for rescue, but... and what about the little ones? shouldn't they all be beeping?
I have carried every ski day for the past 6 years and I feel naked without all of it. not to mention the back protection provided by a pack has saved my back numerous times over the years.