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One day guided, next day by himself....sounds like maybe an easy multi-day stay at lodge somewhere in the Rocky Mtn states....Montana(lots of water...somewhere he wasn't previously), Idaho, Colorado...? Main thing would be to coordinate his stay with one or more heavy hatches of the picked area...
$.01
If it were my 60th I would want to go to the Wind River Range and catch a big Golden.
What's so hard about the SJ? Seriously, as a guide? 18,000 to 24,000 trout per mile in a smallish river, packed into the upper three miles below the dam, living off a diet of small nymphs that forces them to feed all the time to fill up and they are so habituated to people that the fish barely spook until you step on them! I've been there and frankly, day in, day out, its a cakewalk compared to guiding the south fork or henry's fork. Those systems are huge and have so much more variation. SJ, yeah you pretty much know where you'll be going on any day but a guide up here has to start his day deciding where he goes in the 50 to 100 miles of rivers he is expected to be up on. Some summer days on the South Fork or Snake, its hard enough just to find the dang fish in all that volume. I'm sure theres slow days but, compared to say, the Madison, another nymphing oriented river, isn't the SJ sort of like a 3 mile long fish tank with all the brush and grass trampled off the banks by the thousands of texans packed into a limited space (between the dam looming above you, nearby gas wells humming along, ever present people instead of wildlife and all the hammered out paths everywhere, well, scenic it is NOT unless the last scenic thing you saw was at a mall in Houston.) For me, it was a fun two weeks well spent and it is a great destination when the rest of the Rockies are encased in snow and ice. I was getting around 15 nice fish a day just by tossing a #22 flashback PT or Johnny Flash under an attractor nymph (SJ worm, egg, red hot or OJ) into any ol' piece of green water I walked up on. And casting to the same spot over and over and over and over and over and over cuz there was almost always someone else above and below me. Could I offer a 25 fish or money back? Nope. Not with anglers set up on all the good spots by mid-morning. I thought it was crowded and I was there in late february but I guess thats gonna happen when everyone from Dallas wants to fish the same three miles.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeC
Point taken about guiding choices. Frankly, there are more than a few really good guides on the San Juan. However, the river is very changeable (as all rivers are) and it's funny to me when people tell me that they went, slayed fish and don't understand what the big deal is. These fish are educated beyond anywhere else I've ever seen for all the reasons you stated. When they collectively decide to clam up, even great guides have a tough day, especially in a boat. Tough days can stretch into weeks. Like any river. But consider all the flies and nymphing techniques that came out of this particular river, that are now turning all the other tailwater fish into tight-lipped SOBs.
I think as a guide the only real problem would be the high expectations of all those Texans, etc who think they are going to catch 50 fish a day, all over 20 inches. And because the SJ is so small, there is always somebody right next to you hauling in pigs even when nobody else is. And since you can see the 18,000 fish per mile right there, why can't this goddamn guide catch them for me?? Plus having variation in your choices really is a good thing, when 50 boats decide to put into Texas Hole, you gotta be thinking that you need to reevaluate a few things in life. I have observed most of the guides pretty close, and I wouldn't want any of their jobs. Yours, however...
There is wildlife - you can hunt ducks, geese and turkey right off the river. I've seen several deer swim across right in front of the boat. And the SJ isn't just 3 miles:wink:. But granted it isn't as charismatic as what you have up your way. Then again, the wildlife is less likely to eat you if you pass out by the campfire with a half eaten hamburger.
Back on topic, I personally like basing out of Pinedale. You've got the goldens (which are probably a big commitment backpacking-wise), but for the self-motivated, there is the Green, Gros Ventre, Hoback, etc... Some of my favorite fishing (and nicest fish) has come from exploring this area. Again timing is the thing, but it's definitely more off the beaten path than Jackson / Yellowstone. Combine it with a float down the Green below Flaming Gorge and you have a very memorable trip.
I am only targeting one species, but Beverly mass on my secret flat must be up there. I cant believe I used this beach with family for 30 years before I started fishing there on a hunch. Sight fishing for stripers with consistent fish and guaranteed sightings from 20-100 ft depending on clouds. Depth of water from inches to chest as tide comes in. 4-5 hours of amazing sight fishing and more on the big minus tides. As close to tropical sight fishing for bones as I will get without leaving for the keys or resuming the undisclosed location fishing log.
I agree. The whole West Yellowstone/ Bozeman/ Island park scene is a bit over rated especially the Henry's which is nothing like when I fished it in the 70s. I hit the gulpers this summer at Hebgen which was ok but the fish were much smaller than I remember from 15 years ago. If you're used to catching redfish on the flats......then to step up you need to go Tarpon or maybe even Guatemala for sails on a fly. Never fished it but have heard the Green below Fontenelle has some hawgs.Quote:
Originally Posted by NMmatt
For pure beauty, the Winds around Pinedale are hard to beat.
My bro kicks ass on the steelhead runs around the Cleveland area......
For a self guided trip in Yellowstone I would head directly for Slough Creek........then maybe hit the Bighorn for some tailwater stuff.
I'd definitely recommend the Lamar over slough unless you're going to the third meadow. Those cuts are some of the pickiest fish I've ever fished for...but every one of them is 16" it's like catching clones. There are some hot spots in yellowstone and when you hit one its as rewarding as any fishing anywhere.
Yeah you're probably right. I haven't fished Slough in a decade and they were pretty finicky then but definitely would eat. But I noticed the lot was full now so the pressure is probably way up.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowstoner
Try New Mexico
Yeah, thats true of every place around here that has a parking lot. Of course its changed since the 70's; there are 90 million more people living in the US compared to 1980! Unlike a decade ago, or 15 years ago or "back in the 70's", this place is somewhat inhabited now and there's been more than a few books published about the fishing. Thing is, though, is that there is so, so much more going on around here than a few famous hotspots and the drift boat accessable waters that the local guide services are beating on 99% of the time.. The Henry's, for example, is crowded June/July if you go to park in a lot up at Harriman's or float the sections with nice parking lots and boat ramps. But the Henry's has a 15 mile whitewater section that is uncrowded and, below Mesa Falls, it is virtually unhikeable and has an awesome fishery for big wild browns. Probably 1 out of 3 local anglers are even aware it exists and even fewer will actually drag a raft down into Bear Gulch to experience it. At the peak of the slamminfly hatch, there could be 12-15 rafts in there spread out over 5 miles but 75 drift boats crammed into the convenient ramp to ramp section below the Gulch. Take your pick. Most days, however, there's just one or two rafts, if any. And even the crowded parking lot hot spots are practically abandoned during shoulder seasons. The fish still eat in March and October but noone seems to care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troglodyte
The Henry's also has 3 main river tributaries each with its own substantial trib (Warm/Robinson, Fall/Bechler, Teton/Bitch) and the trib watershed adds up to around 200 miles of great fishing. About 50 miles of that might not have anglers come through it all summer long because, hey, there's no parking lot and its more than two miles out through bear country to a road and there is no trail and it is never flat easy strollin. And that's just one of many watersheds within a two hour drive. If you aren't out exploring these options, you aren't getting much sense of what this region has to offer in terms of untracked, backcountry angling to trout that behave like unmolested, natural fish. Trust me, its way more fun than technical flatwater test pieces like Harriman's, Slough or Silver Creek. I spend most of the winter inbounds, summertime is for hiking. Every summer, I have to make myself explore something new because I've found so many great zones already that I could just rotate through them. And for the vacationing angler, add the convenience of all the towns, national parks and good roads and the famous hotspots too and the hundred regional flyshops for supplies, guides and boat rentals.
I'm a shit flyfisher but hit a few of the recommended spots in this thread this summer. I wouldn't do the San Juan/New Mexico again, it basically feels like you're fishing in a trailer park. The Frying Pan was a pretty little stretch of water, but I'd personally roll with gretch's RV/Tetons idea, especially as you said your dad would likely only want a day of guiding. Gives him a TON of options w/in a few hours plus still gives him a feeling of adventure.
I'm not the greatest fisherman at all, but I thought in greater Jellystone a couple hours walk from a trailhead (any of them) got you to water that was akin to fishing for brookies in difficulty with big ass cutts on the line instead of tiny little fish i.e. the polar opposite of "technical". And there's a ton of choices for water to fish.
If you are coming from the East Coast and looking for trout and the "trip of a lifetime".... Patagonia. Yeah, it's far away, so's AK. The Argentine side of the Lakes Region is Montana-esque fishing with a hell of alot fewer people and fishermen. SC doesn't have horrible winters but you fly down there at this time of the year and you'll have tons of daylight, sunshine and fishing.
Kelly Creek and Cayuse creek in Idaho...waaay in from the road!
If Alaska is in play, my buddy works with a Heli - FlyFishing outfit near Kodiak. Message me if you want details.
Also I have heard really amazing things about fishing on the Gray Reef- North Platte River- Alcova, WY. (He would need a boat and could have guided option as well).
Personally, part of the allure of fishing for me is the remote locale's that it takes you. I have had an amazing fly-fishing trip in the Big Horn Mtns of Wyoming (via horse / Pack trip)...
[QUOTE=NMmatt;3843627]But consider all the flies and nymphing techniques that came out of this particular river, that are now turning all the other tailwater fish into tight-lipped SOBs.
QUOTE]
Well, I will give it that. I fished the SJ for two straight weeks and it definitely made me a much better technical nympher. It was the only place where I have used 6x tippet to nymph and the only place where I have ever used a #22 barbless nymph. The same techniques are deadly on the Henry's when the fish congregate in the holes and sip midge pupae. Thankfully, HF midges are mostly #18-20. I landed a SJ bow around 23-24" on that 6x/#22 setup with a 4wt, which will probably remain forever as my best light tackle accomplishment. These days I mostly run brick heavy #6-10 nymphs on a piece of double extruded flouro thick enough to strangle someone and my major technical accomplishment of the day is to not fall down and get hurt far away from the car. I basically fish the same #10 tungsten BH prince or double wire wrapped #6-8 turd patterns for three straight months and carry some seasonal dry patterns for the times when the fish are really focused on the surface. Not very technical. I've got about 300 great flies that will probably rot before I use them because fishing here can be really, really simple if you want it to be.
Think it was the Lamar...~early 70s(or was it Slough..??)...??? But was really nice stuff....BigHorn has always looked nice and had decent hatch activity....that is all for my rambling.
$.01
I forgot about this thread until I went to visit my parents this weekend and my dad landed a 29" red fish within five minutes of going out on his boat.
Looks like I've got a general plan down... the location needs to be within a 5-6 hr drive of Boulder, CO. I'm going to leave it up to my dad to decide, but based on this thread I'm thinking Pinedale WY, Durango area CO, Steamboat CO, or somewhere else close by.
BTW, here's a shot I got on Monday of the redfish he caught. Pretty impressive.
http://www.stevemokanphotography.com...Visit-33-L.jpg
5 hr drive...Gray Reef. Alcova, WY. big big fish.
that is all.
Lemme know when you are back east. If we can work it out, we'll see if we can dredge a fish or two up on the Holston, as long as you don't mind me chunking hardware. Fair warning, they are apparently difficult to entice on a fly.
RMNP. Hutchinson Lake in the Wild Basin. There's huge trout in that place and no one ever goes up there. They all go up to Thunder Lake.
smmokan...I think you are on the right track. All three of those are great locations. Steamboat and Durango are cool becuase the towns are nice. Good food, lower elevation for him walking, and a river flowing through downtown with easy access.
A TR is a MUST! Any trip with the old man equals mandatory TR. My dad is back east, and I miss him alot. Stoked for a week of chasing elk with a bow with him this year from a drop camp.
EDIT: I know you have been given so many options, but for a fly fishing launching pad within 5 hours of Denver/Boulder...Glenwood Springs is also pretty hard to beat if flows are bad in Steamboat and Durango is too far. It is a longer drive than I ever thought!
If you want to keep it close to boulder I'd say Steamboat. Pinedale is about 7ish hours.
TNKen- I don't fish. :)
Gretch- there's a good chance I won't be going with him on the trip... I've arranged for a few of his friends to fly out here and join him, so it'll be a good ole' boys trip. Since I don't fish, I wouldn't be much fun sitting around for 4-5 days while they throw flies all day.
Sounds like some good options close by, which is nice. Maybe I'll suggest a few days in each location with Steamboat and Glenwood as the front runners. I'm guessing he'll probably come out here in August or September.
Multiple options will be pretty important, especially in August. I would encourage him to come in September.
OK, you come up and make pics of us fishing. You can drive the boat too, and pass beers. Passing beer is most important. In all seriousness, if he is up this way, let me know.Quote:
Originally Posted by smmokan
[QUOTE=smmokan;3902145] based on this thread I'm thinking Pinedale WY, Durango area CO, Steamboat CO, or somewhere else close by.
QUOTE]
Boulder? You do realize that you picked the most over populated, water-scarce piece of ground between San Francisco and St. Louis? Really, there's so little water around Denver that they drill tunnels under the Rockies to bring in water from the westslope.
The thing about these towns you've listed is that the wading options aren't that great and, no offense Gretch, you wouldn't put these places on a list of "BEST" flyfishing spots (except for the hike-in alpine lake fishing in the Wind River range above Pinedale, that is world class alpine lake fishing). Here is why. These towns are in high deserts with fairly limited amounts of large streams, lots of zealously guarded private water and strict access/tresspass rules. Access rules are the key: ID and MT allow wade and float access to ALL navigable streams on private or public land; CO and WY totally suck in terms of unfettered access and water is so valuable in those dryass desert states that most conveniently placed water is either inside a ranch or flowing past vacation homes. On the bigger rivers, wade anglers are limited to the public access zones (where most everybody else is fishing). To fish, you usually need water and not just some skinny creeks up in the national forest. Pinedale area has some rather limited wade access along the New Fork and the Green but locals mostly float those rivers. The good fishing on public land is a substantial hike up into the roadless Wind River mountains. Not to mention, Pinedale really went to shit when about 5000 gas wells went into the surrounding area over the past decade. And CO looks to be in the 2nd year of a bad drought cycle to boot. Send your old man somewhere where there's water, for Ullr's sake.
It is what it is. If one lives in CO, one learns to deal with having limited access to many of the good rivers. But I personally wouldn't put up with it. If I wanted to look at No Tresspassing signs and angry land owners all day, I could have stayed in Tennessee where wade anglers have access to about 5% of the state's streams.
Neckdeep makes some good points regarding private land, but I have to disagree about Steamboat not having good wading options. The obvious shit is the water around town and the tailwater south of town, but if Dad is willing to drive an hour there are tons of options for wading big or small water. There is also some reasonable pay-to-play closer to town, if he's not opposed to that. But if the water is skinny this summer all bets may be off.
I've had some great wading days within an hr-1.5hrs of Steamboat. Float options with a guide for a day too. I'm certainly no Steamboat angling specialist though!
Yeah, that's my point, you've got to drive 60 miles from these towns to get to the good wading options. I said "conveniently placed" waters. Meanwhile, schwerty and I have hundreds of miles of accessable streams inside of 60 miles from the driveway. Schwerty can just stroll along Flat Creek on the Elk Refuge if he wants to tear his hair out over big spooky fish in a beautiful meadow stream. That sort of access usually costs money in CO. Flat Creek is a classic C&R flat water test piece for anglers and it's right there, in town, free to the public. Eastern anglers don't really have access to anything like that back east but anglers here get jaded about Flat Creek and the nearby unpressured creeks, in general. I can easily catch 15-40 trout a day within 30 minutes from my house but my record is 125 in 6 hours from a nearby creek. If he's going to have to spend 3hrs of each day of his vacation driving, plus two days of driving to get away from Denver, that's a lot of fishin time spent driving.
Good points.
[QUOTE=neckdeep;3905125]I live in Boulder. He's flying in to visit for a few days, and then he's driving somewhere (within 5-6 hours) to go fishing with his friends, on me. He already lives in one of the best places in the country to fly fish, so coming out here doesn't have to be "all-time"... the combination of good fishing, friends, and the mountains is what's going to make it a good trip. If for some reason he just wants to stay closer to home (SC) and have me cover that, I'm fine with that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by smmokan
And here's one more shot of his new toy... regardless of where I send him out west, it's not going to be as good as he already has it, and that's OK.
http://www.stevemokanphotography.com...Visit-35-L.jpg
Nice boat!
Schweet.