Printable View
my bad! Usually better at reading than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by geomorph
You'd have to go pretty old to get a Toyota or Subaru for $10,000, unfortunately. Damn things just don't depreciate.
Maybe something like Mazda or VW? Old Dodge or Ford truck? Not Chevy.
Known problem on the 4.0 Jeep is faulty oil pressure sensor. But you still have to replace the entire punp to fix it (Or might as well) 500$ ?
Spend 2 grand on the Jeep and keep on goin.
We have a Vibe. Great car, but too small for what you need. Mazda5 is better choice - 30 mpgish, seats 6 and dirt cheap. Older 2wd Sienna is a possibility too, if you could live with yourself.
Can't think of much else exciting in that price range - older Frontier Crew (underpowered, terrible MPG), older F150, Hyundai Santa Fe, Ford Escape, Subarus, Volvo Cross Country (if you're brave).
Heh. I urged the maggots to open their minds and look beyond Subies & Tacos. Now you're telling me to open my mind; there's some irony for ya. Think any maggots would check out Kia? Scion? Hyundai?Quote:
Originally Posted by Conundrum
BTW, if American brands aren't giving the consumers what they want, then why have sales & profits been humming along lately? F-150s still sell really well, the Volt is selling like crazy in California, the Focus & Chevy Cruze are selling well, etc. In a down economy, no less...
I don't really give a two shits what someone buys, but to exclude American brands today based on the shitty quality stuff they put out in the 1990s & early 2000s is pretty boneheaded considering how much has changed since then.
The OP said he had a $10k budget. I think the reason American brands were excluded was exactly what you are saying. He would have to buy new or at least late model to get into the good stuff America is making and that might not work for him.
There was a tsunami that forced a shut down in most production plants for Japanese auto makers due to parts supplies. GM barely beat Volkswagen for largest global maker last year. F150s rock and I would buy one if it fit my budget. The cars that are selling are small efficient mpg getting cars. In a down economy, people are buying cheaper and smaller and are forced to as their cars finally wear out. Underwear sales are up and small economic cars will follow. My guess is as Japan recovers, they will be back in the lead due to fuel prices. The Japanese shaped the economical car market so it's hard to believe they are out for good. Maybe they can take a loan from taxpayers to get back on top...
Do you know why American makers are partnering with the Japanese? They are learning how to efficiently run their factories so they can compete. The Japanese are using the American factories to work around tariffs.
Yes, I agree with you, American makers are finally giving consumers what they want (for the last two years out of how many?). The gov still owns a chunk of GM-go free market.
If you want an F-150, just get an F-150. It will get about the same mileage as your Jeep. Or are you trying to significantly IMPROVE the mileage over what you have?
You're right, I forgot the OP set his budget at $10k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conundrum
I helped GM launch the CTS in Lansing way back when they finally started implementing lean manufacturing principles borrowed from Toyota to trim costs and improve quality. The plant I was at was the pilot the CTS has been a raging success. Needless to say they took the lean manufacturing principles to heart and have been rolling them out at others since then.
I left the company because I saw what the ol' boys were doing and knew it would hit bankruptcy. So glad I bailed back then and when I heard that the gov't was going to become a major shareholder, I thought it was the end.
Well, the gov't forced GM to make the changes that needed to be made (too many mid-level managers & a board with their head in the sand) and I was pleasantly surprised. Then the UAW contracts got re-negotiated to clean up the balance sheet; another pleasant surprise.
BTW, the market was never free - the Japanese automakers have benfitted from subsidies from their gov't for a long time. Dunno about the Germans or Koreans, but the playing field was (is?) not level.
1990-Present Subaru WagonsQuote:
Originally Posted by iceman
If all of these failed to start tomorrow, thousands of college professors in the Northeast and Pacific Northwest would have to walk to class.
I've got one, and my best friend calls it my "smug-teacher-mobile".
Just a small point - people always extol Japanese manufacturing but the Keiretsu system was bound to fail and the tsunami showed what mess just-in-time can be when something unexpected pops up. Emulating Japan can be good, and also can be really bad.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using TGR Forums
Is Volkswagon up-keep/parts exceedingly expensive? I've got my eye on three Passat wagons.
3 Passats
There are a couple VW engines to avoid. I know one is the 1.8T.
How about Saab 9.3 2.0T SportiCombi (wagon).
There was a great one near Iceman (Pawling) with extra rims, snow tires, roof rack and kayak holder (motivate me to buy one)....but he sold it two days ago. :(
I can get 2006 or 07 with under 80K miles for around $10,000
Reviews say that the 4 cyl will get 22/30 mpg...but is that too small of an engine with a turbo?
Both wife and kids like the looks...but is upkeep redonkeylous?
I looked at one of these last fall. It was an '07 with 54,000 km, asking $14k.
They're beautiful driving cars with a lot of space in the back. The 2.0T is a gem, lots of low end power, runs very smooth and can get good mileage on the highway. I also think they're one of the best looking wagons ever made.
The interior is so-so for a luxury car.
Definitely try to get a 2007 or later since there was a major refresh and a lot of the common bugs (like the fiber optic audio) were corrected. The 2007+s are supposed to be a lot better than the earlier models.
The biggest issue with them is that they were made by GM at a time when they weren't making their best cars. Mechanically I think they're pretty solid but a 9-3 has the possibility of nickel and diming you to death. Also, parts for these cars are not cheap.
Ultimately what scared me away was talking to a local Saab indie mechanic. He said the cars are generally good and there is decent aftermarket support for parts but there are a number of Saab only parts and if they fail it can be hell getting them as they are often back-ordered. His comment was that unless you can find a loaner at a wrecker your car will be sitting for a long time waiting for parts to arrive. I'm not 100% sure it's true but he stood to make money off of me and turned me away.
Still, after all that there's a part of me that wishes we got it over the Mazda5 (though sliding doors rule with young kids). It was such a nice car to drive and that engine is so sweet.
With the auction yesterday, you may be able to score a new Saab from your local dealer ultra-cheap.
http://wot.motortrend.com/last-call-...on-222181.html
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/3570...oline-nevs.htm
"The only eligible bidders will be U.S. Saab dealers, but that means that the last gasoline-powered Saabs will be available on dealer lots for as much as 50 percent below MSRP."
50% off of a brand new car? That's kind of tempting!
Thanks for that info, both of you.
I love the look of it from the outside and the plastic on the inside doesn't turn me off. The lack and cost of parts do. I will take one with the right history and cost.
I'd also take the new inventory of deeply discounted new Saabs into account. Seems that should drive prices of used ones down a bit. Really is a shame they met this fate, as I always thought they were great driving, unique cars. Don't know why exactly, but I get a kick out of the center mounted ignition switch.Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorboy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_DemingQuote:
Originally Posted by iceman
Where do you think the japanese learned how to kick americas ass ?
The japanese had their asses schooled in the postwar occupation period by an american W.Edwards Deming ^^^ but nobody much listened to him back on this side of the pond, japan kicked our asses and thats why today we all drive cars made by japanese based car companies
Bump what did you end up with a Toyota or Subaru? I have the same needs as you only I have 1 child and two dogs. I'm thinking Toyota or Subaru only because of the years I would be looking at. Anyone know what year Subaru engines are the most bullet proof?
I have excluded bmw and audi because of expensive parts but I could be wrong about that.
You can't go wrong with a Subaru with the 2.5 engine into the auto trans from, oh, 07 to now. This engine has been around for almost twenty years, and is a rock, excluding those difficult years from'99 to'03, when they had head gasket/overheating issues. We're talking Outbacks, Foresters, and Imprezas (before'10 on the Impreza).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckerman
Just remember to change the timing belt.
Edit: Seriously consider a Subaru Certified Pre Owned vehicle. I just bought one, and I'm happy.
That's for sure. I had an '86 Subaru that ran great. Since I bought it for next to nothing, the timing belt swap was going to cost more than twice what I paid for the car. A few months later the timing belt blew, of course destroying both heads. Lesson learned. Don't be a cheapskate about the timing belts, no matter how cheap you get the car. At least I ended up being able to sell it for a hefty profit, even broken! Freaking Subaru resale. Haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
The head gasket issue continued through 04 and 08 as well. The caveat is that if you buy the more awesome turbo version you don't have to worry about it. They use a different head gasket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
I beg to differ about '08. They had that shit fixed earlier.
I just test drove a turbo, and, unless you can find one with a stick, it makes no sense.
Subaru's do fine until 70k, then the small shit starts to break. Then at 100k it's all those fucking sensors. Goddamn sensors cost more to fix than whatever they are trying to sense. Then at about 120k the big shit starts to break. Sure you can get a Subaru to 200k but you are going to plow more money into it than you paid for the car for the first place. Such piece of shit cars.
What he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMessenger
This is my experience, at least with the oxygen sensor.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMessenger