Has the Avalung become a joke?

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Originally Posted by covert

Cut off all the straps and leave ~4" of material above the mouth piece.

Locate ideal position for avalung on top of pack strap. Put yer pack on and hold it in place so you get the mouth piece in the right spot.

I like to use a speedy stitcher to sew the top piece of material (by mouth piece) to the pack strap.

I don't like zip ties but use tape to secure avalung to pack strap in 1-2 additional places.

There is a bit of webbing on the tail of the avalung that you can thread some p-cord through and attach loosely to the straps that secure your waist belt. Keeps tail of avalung from flopping around.

Center punch big lines while chanting avalung and airbag will keep me safe while i crush it.

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Gracias.

I Saw a bunch of your guys had them rigged up on Dakine packs last time I was there.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Gracias.

I Saw a bunch of your guys had them rigged up on Dakine packs last time I was there.

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We used to get them for free until BD decided they wanted to spend their money on pro skiers instead of skiing professionals.

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Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong

Also, use of both products is not mutually exclusive if you have a non pack integrated Avalung unit. Considering how cheap and available Avalungs are, I don't see the harm in using one regardless of one's opinions on the efficacy of airbag packs.

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EXACTLY !! I've always been sitting on the fence when it comes to Avalung use, but the massive back to back snow dumps of this year has decided it for me. I'm getting one on order post haste. There are many other snow immersions which it might by a little more time besides avalanches. Treewells, like someone here mentioned. I've been in tree-wells but never been inverted in one where there was a suffocation danger.....but who's to say that next time, I WON'T be inverted and stuck down there like some sort of cheap party trick. I want one. Icefields....I travel them occasionaly....always with trepidation and wariness, but always butt-puckered about going through and ending up in a crevasse. More snow means the signs of potential crevasses are more hidden. I want a avalung for that reason too. ANYTHING that can give you just a bit more time. (usually, though with a crevasse, the danger is not so much suffocation, but that you're fucking jammed in down there in BLUE ice, it's going to get very cold and you are going to DIE....I think a 44 would be more useful in that case....crevasses have ALWAYS been my absoulute worst, most vile nightmare!!!...and is why I no longer do solo icefield traverses...only with at least a party of 3 now!).

That they're not seen to be statistically effective might reflect more upon testing procedures and sample populations than anything concrete.

They're fairly small, and don't add incredible weight, so I'll take a gamble on them.

In theory, they should work fairly well...I guess I'll have to wait until it ships to find out the practicality aspect.

Anybody here ever have NEEDED to use one, had one on hand and then USED it?? Tell your story.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Proper use of an Avalung is key to making the reliability near 100%. Skiing without the mouthpiece in is like driving your car with the seatbelt unbuckled. You don't wait until you see the oncoming semi to buckle up. Have it in and breath around it.

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Do any of you actually ski with it in? I might put it in, if I cut the top or the entrance is really sketch, but I never ski the actual run with it in my mouth.

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Has the Avalung become a joke?

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Only when mentioned as being possibly useful in a crevasse?

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Only when mentioned as being possibly useful in a crevasse?

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Didn't I just get done saying that the suffocation aspect of a crevasse is not that great??? I coulda sworn I did....that thing in parentheses () ??? Please READ fully before commenting. But there are other immersion and suffocation aspects in icefields and snowfields besides falling into deep crevasses. There are various undulations and holes that one can get pitched into..and end up inverted like a cork, especially when wearing a heavy pack. You ever slip off a stomp-trail when wearing a large pack and pitch head first into a lower pack of deep and light snow from a dump?? I have...NOT fun. Can't move. Luckily people right behind me....but what if they were on the next ridge? That avalung might bide some extra minutes until someone either notices you're missing or sees your legs sticking out.

Do you perhaps write political ads, PNWBrit? The people that do are REALLY good at taking a sentence or even just a word in this case, and then taking it so fundementally OUT OF CONTEXT that the original intent was fully obfuscated by the spinner's own rendition. You'd be really good at that....there is still time left before November.

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EDIT: Doesn't matter. Right NOW what I'm trying to figure out is WHY, with these simple sneakers I'd just bought, do they give you fricking laces as long as tree-climber's boots????? Answer me that.

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Originally Posted by Alaskan Rover

Didn't I just get done saying that the suffocation aspect of a crevasse is not that great??? I coulda sworn I did...

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More snow means the signs of potential crevasses are more hidden. I want a avalung for that reason too

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You could use an airbag in the crevasse too maybe? To wedge yourself in?

Edit: or fill it with helium and just float out. We'll probably need Rog to give a second opinion though..

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

You could use an airbag in the crevasse too maybe? To wedge yourself in?

Edit: or fill it with helium and just float out. We'll probably need Rog to give a second opinion though..

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I was thinking it would be better to fill the airbag with nitrous oxide, so that at least one could spend their last few moments wedged in against the cold blue ice wals in some state of euphoria. make that last whippit a great one!!

What about those damn shoelaces, though? What's up with that?

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Originally Posted by covert

Center punch big lines while chanting avalung and airbag will keep me safe while i crush it.

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I laughed.

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

Do any of you actually ski with it in? I might put it in, if I cut the top or the entrance is really sketch, but I never ski the actual run with it in my mouth.

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I'm curious about this as well. For me, I'll usually leave the mouthpiece positioned near my mouth, but I haven't once skied a run with the mouthpiece in. And never having been in a slide, I'm not sure how difficult it would be to actually chomp down on the mouthpiece while going for a ride.

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Originally Posted by werdswerf

I'm curious about this as well. For me, I'll usually leave the mouthpiece positioned near my mouth, but I haven't once skied a run with the mouthpiece in. And never having been in a slide, I'm not sure how difficult it would be to actually chomp down on the mouthpiece while going for a ride.

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In my experience, you have PLENTY of time to stick it in your mouth in the event that you start a slide.

if i entered a slope thinking an avalung would probably be something that i'd like to have my mouth around (insert jokes here fuckers), i most likely wouldn't want to be entering that slope.

avi deaths have always been wake up calls for other bc users to think about their own decision making or lack there of. someone dies, folks listen. new techs such as avalung/airbags are things that many folks will consider buying to cheat death by taking on increased risk. it's happening already and it's gonna be entertaing to watch it all go down. i don't giva fuck what folks think regarding helmets either. folks are getting hurt/dying in increasing numbers with those as well. skiing faster than they should in terrain above their abilities at higher speeds where they'da probably skied more slowly/mindfully without one and not hit that tree or rock or whatever.

flame away fartknockers!

rog

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Being trapped in snow because you have a broken back. Yeah, cause of death is suffocation but you probably wouldn't have suffocated if you could move. You may not be able to breathe but your inability to do anything about it is because you hit a rock, a tree, went over a cliff, etc. It's like saying the tree the you drove into killed you when in fact it was the 19 beers you had that did it.

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Is this guy (formerly Advres/Gameface/the guy who claimed he was going to be chill around TGR from now on) for real?

I mean seriously, does he mean this?

He agues terribly against accepted statistics and in the process comes up with this gold:

"you probably wouldn't have suffocated if you could move".

Same guy...once he takes a position regardless of how wrong, his dick is too big to admit his mistake.

Knock Knock. Who's there? Avalung. Avalung who? .....

Why did the Avalung cross the road?.....

So an Avalung walks into a bar.....

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Knock Knock. Who's there? Avalung. Avalung who? .....

Why did the Avalung cross the road?.....

So an Avalung walks into a bar.....

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^^^^ +1 !!

I laughed. Thanks for that, Shrednar!!!

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I had someone ask me one time "isn't that a Jethro Tull song?"

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Originally Posted by Summit

The best solution is to get both and duct tape and ziptie the Avalung to your airbag pack.

Avalungs protect against more situations than an airbag, if less reliably: airway protection while trying to ski out of an avalanche or slough, SIS (snow immersion suffocation) deaths like treewell or deep pow, and if you are critically buried in an avalanche, airbag or not.

Proper use of an Avalung is key to making the reliability near 100%. Skiing without the mouthpiece in is like driving your car with the seatbelt unbuckled. You don't wait until you see the oncoming semi to buckle up. Have it in and breath around it.

The bottom line is that the Avalung complements an airbag very well.

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After having been caught and not having the time to put my mouthpiece in, I 100% agree with skiing with the mouth piece in. The natural reaction in a situation that requires the use of the Avalung is NOT to bite down on the mouthpiece. If you have it, use it.

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Originally Posted by Summit

The bottom line is that the Avalung complements an airbag very well.

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It would be cool if BD saw it this way and integrated both systems in a new pack

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Originally Posted by Summit

The best solution is to get both...

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Agreed.

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...and duct tape and ziptie the Avalung to your airbag pack.

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Do not agree. There was a recent case where an avy victim was found with his avalung pack ripped off. This is not the first case where a victim has been found sans pack (Avalung pack or not). The last thing in the world I want is to have my pack ripped off and my avalung going with it. Wear your Avalung sling separately under your pack and over your jacket like it's meant to be worn and don't tie the two together.

^ but

A slide violent enough to tear your pack off probably means one that you wouldn't have been able to keep mouth piece in?

Airbag packs harness heavierer duty.

I mostly regard the avalung as tree well safety.

I skied with my new (lightly used) float30 for first time on Saturday. Was not expecting great things - weight, overly padded shoulder straps, general design. But it wasn't too bad overall. Still wish Black Diamond made one.

Now that Meesh was on CNN, everyone will want one, so BD should jump on the bandwagon.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

A slide violent enough to tear your pack off probably means one that you wouldn't have been able to keep mouth piece in?

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Do not underestimate the power of teeth. Just ask Mike Tyson.

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Originally Posted by Arty50

Do not underestimate the power of teeth. Just ask Mike Tyson.

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I feel that BD should re-design the mouthpiece so you can really chomp down on it. It should be more like a snorkel, with tabs to bite on. As it is now, it would be very easy to have it ripped out of your mouth

I've heard some people have replaced the mouthpiece with a snorkel mouthpiece... should only be a $3-5

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Originally Posted by Jethro

I feel that BD should re-design the mouthpiece so you can really chomp down on it. It should be more like a snorkel, with tabs to bite on. As it is now, it would be very easy to have it ripped out of your mouth

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I think Arty was imagining it more ear shaped than snorkel.

Someone needs to make a full face helmet with a Avi Lung device incorporated.

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

Someone needs to make a full face helmet with a Avi Lung device incorporated.

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I know several people who did this with just a little velcro to hold the mouthpiece right in front, easy to grab.

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

Someone needs to make a full face helmet with a Avi Lung device incorporated.

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Already done.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l4...1o5zo1_500.jpg

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How about an airbag pack that also deploys a go-pro?

Stole from a kid in Tignes...run the breathing tube thru the camelback sleeve of the shoulder strap of backpack sits right in front of your mouth.
fair amount of space in pack to rebreath.

wow. i would try burying that pack with the tube out, leave it overnight then see how long you can breath through the tube.

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Originally Posted by whipski

Stole from a kid in Tignes...run the breathing tube thru the camelback sleeve of the shoulder strap of backpack sits right in front of your mouth.
fair amount of space in pack to rebreath.

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That idea is horrendous. Basically disables the avalungs ability to pull air from one place and put the co2 in another. Enough room in the pack to rebreath? What are you thinking :confused:

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Originally Posted by icelanticskier

if i entered a slope thinking an avalung would probably be something that i'd like to have my mouth around (insert jokes here fuckers), i most likely wouldn't want to be entering that slope.

avi deaths have always been wake up calls for other bc users to think about their own decision making or lack there of. someone dies, folks listen. new techs such as avalung/airbags are things that many folks will consider buying to cheat death by taking on increased risk. it's happening already and it's gonna be entertaing to watch it all go down. i don't giva fuck what folks think regarding helmets either. folks are getting hurt/dying in increasing numbers with those as well. skiing faster than they should in terrain above their abilities at higher speeds where they'da probably skied more slowly/mindfully without one and not hit that tree or rock or whatever.

flame away fartknockers!

rog

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Agree that if you ski a slope because you have a beacon, avalung, airbag, etc and think your equipment will protect you, you're dumb. But we all make mistakes. Which is why we use beacons, avalung, airbag, etc. I think the key is to not let the equipment change your mindset. Don't think you are safer with equipment.

Shit, people die in steel balls with padding and 24 point safety harnesses going over Niagara falls. Some avalanches definitely apply more force than a trip over Niagara.

No equipment makes you 100% safe, but no one makes the right choice 100% of the time. Even wile old veterans.

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Originally Posted by hutash

Now that Meesh was on CNN, everyone will want one, so BD should jump on the bandwagon.

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My magic 8-ball says the outlook is good.

Edit: I don't feel so bad talking about this now, because it's confirmed here too:
http://14erskiers.com/blog/2012/02/s...iamond-update/

no one i know think it is a joke but not alot think it will save them in a big slide. seems more like a safety device for tree well submersion or terrain trap zones for riding solo. airbags have a shredding potential so not a perfect solution either.
i am old and rely on guile and intuition as well as reliable resources to avoid reliance on gear.
just my opinion and not endorsed for anyone else.
bobby

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

i am old and rely on guile and intuition

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beats the shit out of a bag or an a-lung

heh. if only folks would just wait 72 hours. worked for the mailman......................:)

rog

I ski with my Avalung in frequently. I would rather be trying to get out of the slide or using my hands to prevent being burried then trying to get my mouthpiece in.

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Originally Posted by icelanticskier

if i entered a slope thinking an avalung would probably be something that i'd like to have my mouth around (insert jokes here fuckers), i most likely wouldn't want to be entering that slope.

avi deaths have always been wake up calls for other bc users to think about their own decision making or lack there of. someone dies, folks listen. new techs such as avalung/airbags are things that many folks will consider buying to cheat death by taking on increased risk. it's happening already and it's gonna be entertaing to watch it all go down. i don't giva fuck what folks think regarding helmets either. folks are getting hurt/dying in increasing numbers with those as well. skiing faster than they should in terrain above their abilities at higher speeds where they'da probably skied more slowly/mindfully without one and not hit that tree or rock or whatever.

flame away fartknockers!

rog

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Yeah man for sure. I end my Ice Coast season every Spring with fresh POW up at Tailgate Alaska. Over the years I have collected all of the gear I need and now rock an ABS Vario with the 18L zip in as well as my avalung. I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned people heading further into sketchy terrain because of that "security blanket". Really all that stuff does is bring us a wee bit closer to seeing eye-to-eye with Mother nature but at the end, she owns the day. I would never venture into the bc without my gear but at the same time, my risk assessment is from the point of view as if I was alone with nothing.