oohhh -- I really like the Idea of a universal type jig :D
I would gladly order that!
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oohhh -- I really like the Idea of a universal type jig :D
I would gladly order that!
I am your bumbling idiot test case.
The hardest part for me is not just getting everything lined up, but also keeping the screw holes in place. It's easy to misfire by a couple of millimeters. A simple multipurpose jig like described above by Zappa, with a hole pattern by Terry, would do the trick. Also, annotate the jig face with the expected screw depths. ohhh, i want one now.
From a marketing standpoint, if you could offer a mount kit with that jig plate, the two correct metric bits with collars, and the correct screw driver, simple set of fancy printed instructions, and those great online videos, that seems like it would be successful. A separate tap and countersink are somewhat optional and probably confusing to a lot of people, imo. I think you already have kits for the binding inserts.
btw, I do this because skiing is my hobby and I should own it. And I have seen shitty shop jobs. And it's fun and I'm a gear head. I've completed about 10 mounts using speed square, hand drill, stop collar, tape, and pencil. I got a good set of guidelines from a friend. No paper templates. I had one scarey moment up where I stripped two holes with the wrong depth screw. I patched by hammering in a trimmed wood dowel smeared with wood glue, later redrilled, and it works fine. My next mount will use paper templates.
FrankZappa sighting!
FKNA, son! How you doing?
Had a brainstorm this morning. Lego based mounting jig.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y...0/IMG_3546.JPG
The tolerances on lego pieces aren't quite tight enough to use for real, but this could be the basis for a self centering universal jig. I generally have no problem getting the relative location of the holes easily, it's getting them centered relative the ski that I have the most problems with.
The universal jig idea is good. But remember, Alpinord is dealing with customers that may need a lot of handholding. A plexi/lexan drill guide fo rthe most popular bindings (especially Salomon and Tyrolia because of their uniformity across models) might be cheap enough and popular enough to be worth while. It would have drilled holes, to serve as a guide, and have a center line, and BSL markings, looking very much like the paper templates posted here at TGR. The center line could be ethced or printed, but since you'd want to print things like Model ID, brand name, and BSLs, it might as well be printed. Printing can be done either by silk screening or by printing a clear decal/label and sticking to the drill guide. You'd need separate toe and heel pieces, and you could even print directions on the guide. I'd think you'd be able to produce these to retail at $20 or so. And although they'd really be no better than the paper templates, they'd offer psychological assurance to the noob mounter.
Another alternative, that could be offered dirt cheap, depending on licensing/copyright issues would be to print paper templates on clear sheet. Any ink jet printer can do this. The clear template would be slightly easier to use than opaque paper.
I completely agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbense
With your lego prototype: wouldn't the distance between holes vary as you open/close it to fit different ski widths?
Yes, but there is a way around that. One way would require some additional pieces, but I think it could work. You can use the scissor part to place a square bar centered on the ski and then place a cross piece with holes of the required distance. If you make the bars long enough there is a reasonable chance one pair of the holes in the bar will match the width you want. A bit of math and you could move the central pivots to match the ski width and hole offset.Quote:
Originally Posted by saxon.jones
FWIW, it would be nice also to have a 26 mm spaced pair on any similar "universal jig" - 26mm is a common spacing for 3 and 4 hole tele bindings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
i also like where this is going, having sworn off shop mounts since 08.
thanks for thinking
bobby
I bought some extension 'feet' (ordered through my local shop) that were designed for a Marker jig. It was easy to mod them and attach to my Sally and Look jigs that were originally designed for narrow skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chupacabra
At the risk of floating a concept and seeing it taken by someone else and being pissed at myself later, here's a concept I've been kicking around:
1) Start with ski and 2" wide tape run as long as practical (the longer the better):
Attachment 108675
2) Set ruler with pins and slot diagonal across ski until pins touch edges. Scribe diagonal with pencil or pen:
Attachment 108676
3) Rotate the ruler so the pins touch the opposite edges and draw second diagonal. Be sure the pins touch directly across from previous location due to continuously changing ski shape:
Attachment 108677
4) View from below of pins at touching the edges:
Attachment 108678
5) Repeat above steps at opposite end of tape and draw straight line from center of X's with long straight edge or snap a string line. Double check with ski center gauge and tweak as needed:
Attachment 108679
6) Tape binding mount template to center line and BSL, mark, drill and mount with the assistance of the centering ruler.
Attachment 108680
Flaws with this concept?
Just my opinion, but I think people are going to struggle with step 3. How do you make sure you're pins are resting DIRECTLY across the ski from the previous point? If you don't, your center is going to be off.
The "lego drill guide" idea posted above won't work as a drill guide, because the distance between holes will change as ski width changes. But that idea will work as a center marker with some minor tweaking.
Yeah, I have mixed feelings about the criss-cross technique and left it as an 'option' on a subsequent version for universal jig. I think there are several ways to rotate the ruler and end up with very close to dead on. Using the centering ruler works well enough and the criss-cross approach is somewhat redundant, but quicker method to find center. It works great on parallel edged objects, which is an argument to leave the option because the ruler (and jig) could be used on other things besides skis.....
I made a 'lego-type' centering jig earlier this year and decided it would get complicated trying to deal with variable ski widths and pairs of holes. For center holes as noted, it worked fine. BTW, I used 3/8" sink supply tubing as a poor-man's drill bushing and it fit 5/16" step drill bits perfectly.
Been thinking about this for awhile since this thread got underway and now my thoughts after mounting two pair this week....
I don't have much trouble finding ski center - I use a pair of combination squares and put both heads on one bar and sandwich the ski and mark center on masking tape in about 5 places then draw a line with a straight edge.
I'm also comfortable lining up paper templates to account for various bsl.
My last two mounts I've used a perpendicular drill guide (like the one Alpinord posted earlier in this thread) and it improved things greatly over my prior freehanding - (didn't realize how far off vertical my drill bit was until trying to align it in a drill guide).
All in all my process and technique after having done 9 or 10 mounts (tele, AT and alpine) is much better than when I started.
One thing I would like to see someone make (Jondrums????) is precision machined drill guides with for common binding holes - I'm thinking a separate piece of metal (with or without bushings) for each of say the salomon toe, salomon heel, dynafit toe and dynafit heel. They could be used in conjunction with paper templates to deal with various BSL, lined up by eye to paper templates and clamped once then drill all holes in a toe or heel pattern at one time. Wouldn't have to be as bulky or expensive as a proper jig cos not accounting for various BSL or finding ski center but would help precision in relative hole spacing of toe or heel and save lots of time by not reclamping a drill guide for every hole.
I know a few folks have made something like this out of chopping board HPDE or other plastic but i'd like to see more precision from a shop built version.
Theres the LUST factor of groping my skis as i tune and test release settings at the beginning of each season. Plus i risk life and limb everytime i go out so my not trusting a binding mount or an edge sharpening to anyone else!!
that's a pretty erotic post...Quote:
Originally Posted by syrneh
Be sure to use protection when you lust and grope your skis:Quote:
Originally Posted by syrneh
Attachment 110845
This seems like a really good idea to me. You would still need to use the paper templates but you wouldn't need to re-clamp the drill guide for every hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
Yep - that exactly what I was thinking when I suggested itQuote:
Originally Posted by bern43
I'm happy finding ski center and then using paper templates but my issue with reclamping a drill guide for each hole is the time it takes to ensure precision - and even then it is fairly easy to get one hole a fraction off which can be just enough to complicate a dynafit mount for example.
Would love to have a means of ensuring all holes are absolutely precise relative to each other (at least in any given toe or heel piece).
Skis.
Bindings.
Beer.
In fact you need a local shop for my "impulse mounts". You determine what kind of store I'm looking for. ;)
(Bump)
Just wrapped up a series of Binding posts in our Tuning Tips section:
https://www.slidewright.com/category...ki-snowboard/:
- Binding Freedom & Quiver Killer Stainless Steel Threaded Insert Installation
- Finding Your Ski’s Centerline
- Paper Ski Binding Templates
- https://www.slidewright.com/drill-an...hand-drilling/
- Drilling Skis to Mount Bindings
- Stainless Steel Screws for Threaded Inserts
Feel free to comment on the posts and if you have any critiques or additions, please let me know.
Edit: updated links
Good stuff Terry. Thanks for posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
This stuff is great. I really like the pdf that you have that has all of the different binding mounts. It is especially useful to me because it has my corrent bsl. Something that would be really cool and useful would be a program where you could compare the hole spacing of previous mounts with different bsl's and different mount locations on the ski. I buy second hand skis quite often and its always sort of a pain in the ass to see if you are going to have mounting issues with the previous owners mounts. My guess is that I am not the only person who has to deal with this. Not exactly sure what program you would use for something like that or if it would be easy to make web based. Im just the idea guy after all...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
Glad it helps. Knut, I believe is the source of the template and I'm not sure if Jondrums had something to do with the templates.Quote:
Originally Posted by josef
I've been thinking about some sort of web base comparison as well. I've got a 'system' in place in my CAD file to bang out overlays with different BSLs and bindings, but it'd be super tedious to do this for all BSLs and bindings. I can easily set up and print transparency overlays (and have been considering plexi-glass system) that could be 2-part and movable, but not sure it's be worth it from a ROI stand point.
I was thinking something web based similar to this tire calculator I have used in the past: www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
Something where you could input previous mount and bsl and then a new mount and bsl with the option to shift it for mounting it further back from center line. The tire one looks like it is java. Not sure on the difficulty or cost of something like that. Probably not worth it unless you think it would drive a lot of traffic to your site.
I just mounted a new touring setup using this technique to find the centre line. Very accurate. A new 50cm straight edge made drawing one true straight line easy too. And used a friend's drill guide again (just a lump of metal with a hole in it).Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
The result:
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...82100565_n.jpg
Fairly primitive, but I just use one of these:
http://www.emovendo.net/image.php?type=P&id=16386
patience, and beer. bunch of bindings, couple of plates, and tons of inserts without any problems
^^^^ in my opinion you have to have one of these.
i'm sure you've answered this before, but toe-plate only to take the ramp out of the plums?Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBam_540
Correct. I ski Tecnica Bodacious which have a lot of ramp in the boot anyway. Toe plates level out the ramp, making it about 1mm flatter than my alpine setups. Also (in theory) added strength of the toe mount with a wider screw pattern into the ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by good4nothing
...creative use of tools on hand, thank you. I have a pair of combo squares and will be doing exactly this to move some bindings back and inch.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
Thinking about mounting that center-finding template on the wax scraper though!
there’s another thread you want
mount your own fucking skis
What beer are you drinking while mounting?
Asking for a friend.
Before or after two martinis?Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
Yes