Doubtful. Lol. But it does sound like systemoverblow'd needs to get blowed so he'll calm the F%$# down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
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Doubtful. Lol. But it does sound like systemoverblow'd needs to get blowed so he'll calm the F%$# down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
I probably haven't picked up my SLR in a decade and have a few lenses sitting around. Are any older lenses compatibly with the mirroless camera or DSLRs to help phase in the transition? Is an adapter required?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
The lighter bodies and apparently fewer moving parts sounds appealing regarding the mirrorless. My favorite shots have been with a P&S simply because it was lighter and compact...and I'd always bring it and keep it handy. Because of this I could pull it out of a pouch and shoot on a seconds notice. Dealing with lots of camera gear and worry about protecting lenses has never been desirable, but after seeing shots I've taken next to a friend who lugs tons of gear, the interest is growing.....but then there's that large expense issue it'd take to step in the door.
Legacy lenses are usable (with manual focus) on both the m4/3 and the NEX system with adapters. The "catch" is the crop factor for these lenses. With the M4/3's options you multiply the focal length by 2x and with the nex it's 1.5x. So on an M4/3 camera a 50mm lens is equl to a 100mm lens and on the NEX it's a 75mm lens. Also the equivalent depth of field is also increased. So at f/2.8 the in focus on a m4/3 cam is larger than it is on a NEX (ie it makes it harder to have a very narrow DOF when using the m4/3 options). The adapters are usually just hollow metal tubes that line up the mounting bayonets for the two systems and align the focal planes. The plus side of using legacy lenses is that quite often they can be found for cheap on craigslist/ebay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
Here's a list of NEX adapters that I found using google (this is just what I know, I imagine the m4/3 list is very similar)...
-Sony Alpha / Minolta AF Mount to Nex (Sony LA-EA1 official adapter)
- Minolta MD (Aperture control possible directly on the lens dial)
- C.mount (cine lenses for 16mm cameras, this lenses in most cases don't cover the sensor)
-M39 Leica (screw Leica mount)
-Leica LM (Bayonet Leica Mount)
-Leica R LR
-M42 (screw mount)
-Canon EOS (No aperture control on this)
-Canon FD (Aperture control possible directly on the lens dial)
- Nikon F AI AIS (aperture control possible with some MF and AF oldest lenses)
-Penatx K
-Contax Yashica C/Y
-Olympus OM
-Contax G
-Contarex
-Nikon RF - Contax RF
-PL mount (35mm cine lenses)
-PV Mount (Panavision 35mm cine lenses)
-CCTV screw mount
This is in no way a comprehensive list. So as you can see, these bodies have the ability to bring new life to some great old lenses that have been forgotten by the AF/digital age. (Disclaimer: Now while this (mainly MF) may or may not be good for skiing and the OP, it does open up loads of creative opportunities for many other types of shooting.)
To give you guys an example of how small a mirrorless kit can be, I have a 5 lens kit (2 system lenses, a 28 mm prime, a 50mm prime and a 135mm prime) along with a Nex to Olympus OM adapter that fits in a 8"x7"x6" bag (take a piece of 8.5 x 11 paper and fold it in 1/2. That's basically the footprint of the case. Let's see you get a DSLR and 5 lenses in a bag that size). When I travel, there's still room in there for a portable HD, cables and the battery charger. I'm willing to bet that the whole lot weighs less than three lbs.
Again, I'm just highlighting the NEX because it's what I have. M4/3 can be just as small...
There you have it. Mirrorless is the preferred choice of crazy Lonnie and people who aren't serious about photography.
If you can't carry a 1.4 lb camera body on your hike, you're a sissy, and you probably don't carry beer or other essentials. Sack up, Nancy.
I am with Lonnie on this, that for most casual users not looking for bulk the Sony is an amazing option and the pics are kick ass. I am waiting for the nex-7 24 mega pixels and 10 FPS. Shots look better than the majority of DSLR's I have seen. But its not cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
Lol. Touche'. So you're telling me to HTFU? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by outabounds
As you know, I have a FF body too, and I've lugged it up and down mtns, and miles into the back-county. As an day in and day out shooter, it's my go to. It's heavy, but I go to it when I want the look that FF gives me. But, I'm glad it's not my only option....
There are times when I just can't or don't want to hassle with lugging all of the weight. Long story short, there are times when the required IQ isn't worth the hassle of a full sized cam and full sized lenses. One prime example is flying. Hauling my FF kit around with me is a difficult proposition at best. Many international carriers have a 7 kilo (15 lbs) weight limit. My body alone is about 2lbs, and my go to lenses are about another 10lbs, so right there I'm up against the weight limit, without mentioning a laptop or all the other accessories that go along with it. There's no way I'm checking $k's worth of camera gear either. There are other examples, but this was one I've had recent experience with.
What I'm trying to say is I'm glad I'm invested in a mirrorless system for times when fast and light is the way to go. I'm also glad I have a full sized DSLR. In the case of the OP, I think that's exactly the situation they are in. They don't need "pro level" IQ. They want to step up from a P/S and would like a decent cam that takes good pics that doesn't take up a lot of room in parka pocket or a pack. Many folks stepping up from p/s cams think the next step is DSLR, and don't even know of the mirrorless class of cams. All I'm trying to do is to educate folks as to the pros/cons of that type of system. For me there are a lot of pros, and very few cons.
While I think my original statement about the camera world going mirrorless was misinterpreted, I'll stick by it. I do think that one day, and closer to the 10 year time I put out, that most all of the cameras we use will be "mirrorless". When I said that, I think many folks read it as the micro mirrorless bodies we are seeing on the market today. I think we'll have plenty of those types of cams, but I also think we'll have mirrorless cams that are the same size and have the same feel as our full sized DSLR's today.
There will be a point where auto-focus and electronic viewfinder technology will advance to the point that we will no longer "need" the mirrors or prisims in our cameras (and the expense that goes with them). When I say that, I mean that the view from the evf will be as good or better than an optical viewfinder and the AF will be just as fast if not faster than the AF modules we use now. At that point it will not be economical to build "DSLR's" the way we do now and manufactures will start making their full sized cameras mirrorless. All it takes in one manufacture to make the switch and the others will be forced to follow in order to hold step with features and price. However, the user experience while using future mirrorless cameras will not really be any different than using a DSLR today (with the exception of the cool stuff that technology will bring us (like electronic shutters with super fast shutter speeds or the ability to simultaneously being able to capture stills and video)). My prediction is that most of the cannibalization of the DSLR market by full sized mirrorless cams will be at the entry level to mid level cams. The reason is simple. Most entry/mid level users won't be able to tell the difference between evf and ofv's and the price difference will be significant in favor of mirrorless cams (for reasons stated above).
So while I think technology will change, I also think the full sized class of mirrorless bodies will be of similar size and functionality to today's dslrs. The reason is this, ergonomics. There are times when a bigger cam is just easier to handle. I get that. There is also wanting to maintain the ability to use existing DSLR lenses. Short of using adapters, the only way to make that feasibly work is with a full sized body. So I don't think that full sized bodies are going away, I just think that they will be mirrorless in their construction. This isn't to say that you won't be able to buy a traditional DSLR cam, but I think that they will be in the realm of pro level gear and will be very expensive, much like Medium format cameras are now.
Only time will tell....
Wait, what!? I understand that some/many people may not want to lug around a DSLR + lenses + accessories all the time, but I've never had a problem carrying all my camera gear around, domestic or international. So far this year I've flown to Europe 4 times (5 countries), within Europe 4 times, within North America 5 times. Spread across 6 airlines (3 US, 3 European).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
And each time I've had the following in my carry-on with no problems...
- 16" laptop w/ extended (read: heavier) battery pack & power adapter
- Canon DSLR body (5D2, previously 40D)
- Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 II IS
- Canon 35L
- Canon 16-35
- 430EX flash
- Standard tripod (21" collapsed)
- Camera charger
- Internal power adapters
- Spare camera batteries
- All power cords and card readers
- External 500GB HDD
- Books and now Kindle
And ^ all fits in my backpack or shoulder bag, so I often still take my roll-aboard suitcase as my second/"real" carry-on (sometimes I check it if I'm not in a hurry or want to spread out (i.e. want the foot-space)).
You've gotten lucky then. When we flew to Oz last year Quantas was weighing carry on bags. This is mostly an international issue, not domestic. Flyer beware...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
Quote:
–North & South American Carriers–
AeroMexico – Size 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
Air Canada – Size: 21.5″x15.5″x9″ (46 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
AirTran – Size: 55-linear inches of any reasonable dimensions – Weight: none
Alaska – Size: 24″x17″x10″ (51 linear inches) – Weight: none
Allegiant Air – Size 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: none
American – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 40lbs
Continental – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 40lbs
Delta – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 40lbs
Hawaiian – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 25lbs
JetBlue – Size: 26″x18″x12″ (for Airbus) & 24″x16″x10″ (for Embraer)
LAN – Size: 22×14 x10 (46 linear inches) — Weight: 18lbs
Mexicana – Size: 20″ x15″x9″ (44 linear inches) – Weight: 51lbs
Porter – Size: 22″x16″x10″ (48 linear inches) – Weight: 20lbs
Southwest – 24″ x16″x10″ (50 linear inches) – Weight: none
TACA – Size: 22×14×9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
TAM – Size: 21.65″x15.75″x7.85″ (45.25 linear inches) — Weight: 11lbs
United – Size 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: none
US Airways – Size 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 40lbs
Virgin America – Size:24″x16″x10″ (50 linear inches) – Weight: 16lbs
WestJet – Size: 21.5″x15.5″x9″ (46 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
–European Carriers–
Aer Lingus – Size: 22″x18″x10″ (50 linear inches) – Weight: 13lbs
Air France – Size: 21.5×13.5″x10″ (46 linear inches) – Weight: 26lbs
Alitalia – Size: 18″x14″x10″ (42 linear inches) – Weight: 11lbs
British Midland/BMI – Size: 22″x18″x10″ (50 linear inches) – Weight: none
British Airways – Size: 22″x16″x8″ (46 linear inches) – Weight 26lbs
EasyJet – Size: 22″x16″x8″ (46 linear inches) – Weight: none
Finnair – Size: 22″x18″x10″ (50 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
Iberia – Size: 18″x14″x10″ (42 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
KLM – Size: 21.5×13.5″x10″ (46 linear inches) – Weight 26lbs
Lufthansa – Size: 22″x16″x8″ (46 linear inches) – Weight: 18lbs
OpenSkies – Size: 18″x12″x10″ (40 linear inches) – Weight: 51lbs
Ryanair – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
SAS – Size: 22″x18″x9″ (49 linear inches) – Weight: 17.5lbs
SWISS – Size: 22″x16″x8″ (46 linear inches) – Weight: 18lbs
Virgin Atlantic – Size: 22×14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 13lbs
–Africa/Middle East/India–
Air India – Size: 22″x16″x8″ (46 linear inches) – Weight: 18lbs
El Al – Size: 22″x18″x10″ (50 linear inches) – Weight: 17lbs
Emirates – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
Etihad – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
Gulf Air- Size: 17″x15″12″ (44 linear inches) – Weight 19.75lbs
IndoGo – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 18lbs
Jet Airways – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
Kenya Airways – Size: 20″ x15″x9″ (44 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
Kingfisher – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
Middle East Airlines/MEA – Size: 22″x18″x10″ (50 linear inches) – Weight: 17.5lbs
Qatar – Size: 19.68″x14.56″x9.84″ (44.08 linear inches) – Weight: 33lbs
Royal Jordanian – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
South African Airways – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 18lbs
SpiceJet – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
–Asia/Pacific–
Air New Zealand – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
Air Tahiti Nui – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
All Nippon/ANA – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
Asiana – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
Cathay Pacific – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
China Airlines – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
Eva Air – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
Hainan Airlines – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
Japan Airlines/JAL – Size: 22″x16″x10″ (48 linear inches) – Weight 22lbs
JetStar – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 22lbs
Korean Air – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 25lbs
Malaysia Airlines – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 11lbs
Philippine Airlines – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
Qantas – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
Singapore/SIA – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
Thai – Size: 22″x15″x8″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
V Australia – Size: 22″x14″x9″ (45 linear inches) – Weight: 15lbs
Virgin Blue – 19″x13″x9″ (41 linear inches) – Weight 15lbs
Again, I flew to Europe 4 times, flew within Europe another 4 times just in this calendar year. With 6 completely different carriers. I usually fly to Europe about 2-3 times a year, domestically about 6 times a year and to Asia about once every 2-3 years. This has been my pattern for the last ~10 years, flown about 20 of the carriers listed above (half domestic, half international). I've NEVER had any airline (domestic or international) weigh my carry-on bags. Size check, sure, but never weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
Maybe you just look like a dirty hippie to them! :tongue:
I dunno. You have way more international exp than me. All I can say is what I saw last time I flew. Maybe it's a Atlantic ocean vs Pacific ocean thing... :)
No worries - I think regardless, the point about people not wanting to carry a lot of weight is valid. I know many people who want to travel/move around light. I don't mind it (carry around body + 3 lenses all day pretty much everywhere I travel), so for me a DSLR is still the best option at this point.
FWIW, the cost of the prism can be up to 10-15% of the final cost of the camera, and this doesn't include the cost of the mirror and shutter mechanism. So the costs involved are significant.
This review of the NEX-7 makes a compelling argument for these cameras. Definitely intriguing. Thanks for the heads up on the mirrorless option.Quote:
So what are the main features of the NEX-7? The “7″ is jam packed full of features and no one in their right mind could complain about everything Sony packs in this little body. Take a look at all of the good stuff below: DSLR Quality in Your Pocket (It would NOT fit in your pocket with a lens attached)Here’s the same APS-C sensor size as a DSLR, with higher resolution than most DSLRs and the interchangeable lenses that make DSLRs so attractive. Yet the camera is about half the size and weight of a typical DSLR camera. Removing the conventional mirror box and viewfinder makes it possible 24.3Mp ResolutionYou get incredible detail and gorgeous enlargements thanks to a 24.3 megapixel sensor. It’s the highest resolution among pocket cameras as of August 2011 World’s First OLED ViewfinderThere’s never been anything quite like the Tru-Finder OLED electronic viewfinder. For size, speed and brightness even after sunset, this is a gem. This eye-level, through-the-lens, viewfinder begins with 2359K dots for amazing resolution and high contrast ratio for incredible depth. OLED reduces motion blur to a bare minimum. You can also see the results of camera adjustments in real time with superb color and detail Up to 10 Frames Per Second ShootingCapture the decisive moment in sports and get the ideal baby photo. Up to 10 fps continuous shooting at full 24.3Mp resolution with exposure and focus fixed at the first frame. Standard continuous shooting at up to 2.5 fps DSLR-Class APS-C Image SensorSensor size is the key to picture quality. The APS-C class sensor provides gorgeous imaging with 58% more area than Micro Four-Thirds sensors and an amazing 13 times the area of a point & shoot image sensor Full HD Movies at 60p/60i/24pCapture HD Movies in your choice of super-smooth 60p, standard 60i or cinematic 24p, all at Full HD 1920 x 1080 resolution. AVCHD codec delivers stunning picture quality. MP4 codec offers smaller files for easier upload to the web HD Movies with Full Manual ControlNow you don’t need to surrender control when you shoot HD movies. Enjoy the full expressive potential of Program, Shutter Priority, Aperture Priority or Manual (P/A/S/M) control in HD movie mode Tri-Navi Manual ControlPerfect for experienced shooters, Tri-Navi control gives you three separate control dials for direct, hands-on access to three settings at a time. As just one example, the dials can set aperture, exposure compensation and ISO Built-In Pop-Up FlashEnjoy the convenience of flash photography everywhere you go. Guide Number 6 Hotshoe for Alpha System FlashesTake your photography even further with access to the entire range of Sony Alpha system flashes and flash accessories Accepts A Mount Lenses Via AdaptersBoth the LA-EA1 and EA2 adapters (sold separately) allow you to attach the full range of Sony A mount lenses Phase Detect AF with AdapterThe LA-EA2 lens mount adaptor (sold separately) is the world’s first with Sony’s award-winning Translucent Mirror Technology. This provides super-fast and accurate Phase Detection AF when used with Sony A mount lenses Tiltable 3.0″ LCDSony’s 3.0″ Xtra Fine LCD monitor has 921K dots for superb resolution. The TruBlack screen includes a special resin layer to suppress internal reflections, increasing contrast compared to conventional LCDs. Sunny Weather mode boosts visibility even further. Tilts down 45° and up 80° to frame high- and low-angle shots that would otherwise be hit-or-miss Object Tracking AFLocks onto a specified object and maintains focus even as the subject moves. Unpredictable subjects stay in focus even while zooming. You can concentrate on composition without worrying about focus World’s Shortest Release Time LagHelps ensure that the image you want is the image you get. Once auto focus occurs, release time lag is the delay between fully pressing the shutter release and when the camera actually starts taking the picture. Long lag makes it harder to capture fast-moving objects. The Sony NEX-7 boasts the shortest release time in the world (as of August 2011) at only 0.02 seconds Accepts Sony E-Mount LensesCompatible with Sony’s expanded line of E Mount lenses. These smaller, lighter lenses are specifically designed for Alpha compact interchangeable lens cameras. Opens up a world of creative options Peaking FunctionManual focus becomes much easier because peaking highlights the edges that are in focus in your choice of three colors (white, red, or yellow). This is especially helpful during macro or portrait photography where your focus setting can make or break your shot 3D Sweep Panorama ModeCapture vast scenic vistas and 16:9 shots in spectacular 3D. As you sweep across the panorama, the camera records separate right-eye and left-eye images that make landscapes come alive on your 3D television7. Records both JPEG and MPO file formats Sweep Panorama ModeCapture expansive landscapes automatically. Press the shutter, sweep vertically or horizontally. The camera does the rest, continuously shooting images and stitching them together 6-Image LayeringLeverages the fast BIONZ processor to capture six images in a fraction of a second, and then combine the data. The result is an incredible single image that controls blur in Anti-Motion Blur mode or gets cleaner, sharper nighttime pictures in Hand-held Twilight mode Auto HDRHigh Dynamic Range (HDR) photography captures more scene contrast than a single exposure can handle by combining the best highlight detail from one shot and the best shadow detail from another for one incredible shot P/A/S/M Modes for Video and StillsEnjoy a full range of controls for video and still shooting from the beginner’s iAUTO mode to P/A/S/M: Program, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority and Manual. On-screen prompts help you refine your skills, build your confidence and exercise greater creative control Intelligent Auto FocusPre-focuses as you compose the shot, further reducing focusing time to a bare minimum iAUTO ModeUnifies and simplifies Sony intelligent technologies. Takes advantage of Intelligent Scene Recognition, Face Detection technology, and Optical SteadyShot image stabilization without leaving auto mode so you always get the best shot BIONZ Image ProcessorThe brain of the camera is a Sony’s BIONZ image processor substantially upgraded for the demands of 24.3 megapixel photography. Chroma noise reduction delivers high-resolution, low-noise photos even at ISO 16000 sensitivity. Also enables fast processing for up to 10 fps continuous shooting of data-intensive 24.3Mp images, 2D/3D Sweep Panorama modes and 6-image layering Dynamic Range Optimizer (DRO)Improves results with backlit subjects and recovers details hidden in shadows. Settings include Auto, Level with a choice of five operating levels and Off Accepts Non-Sony Lenses Via AdapterYou can use the camera with a universe of lenses from Canon, Nikon, Leica, Olympus and others. The success of Sony’s NEX series, combined with the ultra-short 18mm flange back distance has inspired third-party manufacturers to provide lens adaptors. In addition, Sony has disclosed the E Mount specification to Carl Zeiss, Cosina, Sigma and Tamron 25-Point Auto Focus25 sensors cover a very wide area of the scene, for accurate focusing even when the subject is far from the center of the frame HDMI OutputEnjoy HD movies and stunning still images on a compatible HDTV. The camera includes an HDMI output Stamina Battery Power for Up to 400 ShotsTake up to 400 shots on a single charge with Sony lithium ion Stamina battery power (using LCD monitor). Sony’s InfoLITHIUM battery system enables you to see the percent of power remaining, so you can keep shooting in confidence Sony Exmor CMOS SensorSony Exmor technology uses column-parallel A/D converters for high resolution and high frame rates. Double noise reduction minimizes image noise, even in low light 11 Picture Effect ModesDiscover innovative ways to make your images and videos pop. These include Posterization, Pop Color, Retro Photo, Partial Color, Soft High-key, High Contrast Monochrome, Toy Camera, Soft Focus, HDR Painting, Rich-tone Monochrome, and Miniature Ultrasonic Anti-Dust SystemDust on the image sensor leads to blemishes in the picture. To protect the sensor, Sony incorporates an advanced ultrasonic system, which effectively shakes dust off the sensor surface
The NEX-7 is kind of a game breaker. It's still not going to be the equal of a D3s or 1DMKIV on a 400 2.8 or a 600/4 or whatever, but for amateur use and even slower-moving pro use like travel photography or maybe even portraiture, it looks like a really awesome camera. If I had money coming out my ass I'd buy one.
Just wait two or three years and cameras like that will be affordable with the money under the seats in your car.
Looks like the "toy" is giving the big boys a run for their money.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cam...(brand3)/Canon
The only place these cameras "beat" the NEX7 is in the high ISO score. Now I realize there is a lot more to a cam than a DxOMark score, but the fact that a mirrorless cam, which is not much bigger than a box of altoids, and costs 1/2 to 1/4 as much can produce comparable image quality shows the game is changing. That has been my only point all along....
Read it and weap folks. That's two years running for Sony. A55 last year and the NEX-7 this year.
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...nuary-2012.jpg
Oh, and what's the tag line? "A compact camera so awesome you might dump your DSLR". Never heard that before, have we???
:rolleyes2
[/blatant troll mode]
more like standard cock suck mode.
Did you say something?? Speak up, I can't hear you....Quote:
This message is hidden because systemoverblow'd is on your ignore list.
I get your point here, but that's like saying Deer Valley is the best resort in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
Do you? Did you click the link above where it shows the NEX-7 beating the 5DMii for image quality? Pretty impressive given the size of the beast. (Simply based on IQ it will smoke your 7d, for just about the same price new as you paid for your refirb 7d.)Quote:
Originally Posted by smmokan
Here's a quote from luminious landscapes rolling review of the NEX-7.
Think about what that's saying. A camera that fits in your ski pocket exceeds the IQ of ALL dslr's with the exception of couple which is statistically tied. It takes a MF camera to get superior IQ. That unbelievable performance for a device of this size.Quote:
One day after publication of the above noise comparison between the NEX-7 and the NEX-5n, DxO Labs has published their test results on the NEX-7. They score it at 81, which is only exceed among all cameras tested by a handful of medium format cameras from Hasselblad, Phase One and Pentax, and among DSLRs the Pentax K5 and Nikon D3s, which score just 1 point higher (statistically insignificant).
People want to write them off just because of their size. Don't. There's more to mirrorless than you guys realize...
Gee a brand new camera beating a 3 year old camera. Who would have thunk it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
Oh, I forgot, you won't see this message because you are ignoring me like a little bitch.
This is United States calling are we reaching??Quote:
This message is hidden because systemoverblow'd is on your ignore list.
See he keeps hanging up...
Lonnie, I hate Sony because of your annoying spam.
Good. More product for me. I will feel sorry for you tho when they take over the camera world. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by outabounds
FWIW, I've handled and shot with both Nikon and Cannon cameras. Very few of you that shoot the other brands can say the reverse. How can you honestly say you hate a product you've never handled. You can't. You guys just don't like the fact that there might just be a "better" product out there than the one your using. (what you really don't like is me reminding you of "it" every 6 seconds...)
Back to the original topic, Ignoring what I'm trying to tell you guys won't change the coming reality about the mirrorless class of cameras. Regardless of brand loyal dick waving, that's my real point here.
I have shot Sony video system for the last 6 years. I don't hate them, I hate you.
Again, i'm sure you either can't see this because you are ignoring me or are lying, actually reading my posts and pretending you are ignoring them. Either way I have worked with more Professional equipment than you will ever fondle and I'm sure my opinion means very little to a simple minded idiot such as yourself.
Looks like my D7000 beats the Nex 7 :biggrin:
http://snapsort.com/compare/Nikon_D7000-vs-Sony-NEX-7
No, I'll admit I haven't read up on the NEX cameras because I'm not really all that interested in them right now. I have a hard time believing they're better than the 5D2 and the 7D for most applications of shooting other than landscapes. The body is just too gimmicky with the touch-screen and the EVF/LCD shooting. The lack of good lenses hurts the portability factor too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
That being said, none of my posts were meant to degrade anything you've said... I have no problem with your comments and "fanboy" attitude with them. Hell, I might even pick one up for a vacation camera since they're so compact. I wish they were a little smaller- they'd be perfect to take MTB'ing.
Oh, and using the link above, the 7D beats the NEX-7. ;) I'd like to see some good shots with the NEX-5 or 7 before jumping to conclusions on the quality, too. All I've seen are the pictures in that link you posted above, which are hardly outstanding. It would be nice to see some action shots or quality portraits that compare with what I've seen from the 5D2/7D and Canon's better lenses.
It's worth mentioning that the NEX-7 is extremely strong in terms of color depth, and quite good in dynamic range. However, it lags noticeably behind the professional full-frame DSLRs when it comes to high-ISO performance, which for a lot of photographers is the critical factor. DXO has it as tied with my D3s, but the good scores are all in the areas that I don't need.
I still wish I could afford to buy an NEX-7 and a suite of lenses, though. I'll just have to make do with the GF2.
John, Steve and Max all make some excellent, and on point rebuttals. And there's nothing that I will disagree with. The nex line never does well on snapsort for a couple of reasons 1) they only look at native lenses which is a bit unfair because with the 17 mm flange distance on the cameras, if you are willing to manual focus, you can pretty much stick any lens ever made on these cameras with an adapter (in fact you can adapt all of the 169 nikon lenses that the list for the d7k in addition to Steve's EOS lens and the native ones). But I can understand the point. One of the other is the evf vs ovf. By all accounts I've read the OLED finder is outstanding and not like the old EVF froms days gone by. But again, I understand the point, and won't quibble with it to much.
My statements above were simply based on IQ, and as Max points out, there are multiple components to that, like high iso. Everyone has to evaluate what their specific needs are and works for them.
I think I'd also like to remind everyone that the Nex-7 is a second generation camera. That's pretty impressive, and gets to the only real point that I'm trying to make in all of this which is one day all of our cameras will be mirrorless. We'll still have full bodied cameras, but they won't have mirrors in them any longer.
As for the rest of my statements, take the for what they are worth. A grain of salt. I like to pull for "my team". Big deal. I was voted most school spirted when I graduated from high school almost 25 years ago now. So times I get carried away. If you think I'm full of shit. they hey, I can live with that........
FYI, the DXO tests you linked above are not testing for IQ. IQ is dependent hugely on the lens used. What the tests measured are sensor capabilities (hence "sensor scores") -- and actually the tests are before any demosaicing is done, which could produce different final images. Color depth, dynamic range and ISO (which make up the sensor scores listed) have to do with the sensor. I don't find the color depth or dynamic range lacking in most of today's DSLRs (and even most P&S's). Like Max said, noise however is a factor for me, and there is a big variation in cameras in that area. The other area that is important for me is the DoF. I like having the ability to shoot a shallow DoF. So if I include DoF in IQ evaluation, then a FF camera beats out a smaller sensor body for me.
Newer cameras will typically improve over older ones, that's no surprise. So the fact that the NEX-7 performs slightly better (btw, I don't know if Luminous Landscape really understands the meaning of "statistically significant") in some areas (color depth, DR) than older bodies isn't that much of an impetus for me to jump ship. I've been using older bodies/tech for many years now (Nikon D50, Canon 40D, and now 5D2) without feeling the need to get the latest and greatest. I have to ask myself, "What can Camera X do that my Camera Y cannot, and is that difference important enough to me?" In the case of the NEX-7, you point out the mirrorless feature. But the inner workings of the camera really don't matter to me; I don't care whether it's mirrorless or not -- the question for me is: "What difference does it make if it's mirrorless or not?" The answer is that it's smaller. Agreed, but that's only if we're talking about a body and very small lens. I like shooting with several lenses (16-35, 35, 70-200). So even with a small mirrorless body, I'd still want to carry multiple lenses, in which case the small size of the body doesn't really matter that much. When I really do want a small camera, I take my S95 -- not the best quality, but in those cases, size is more important than quality.
The one thing that I do like about the NEX is the articulating rear LCD. I had one in my old Nikon Coolpix 5700 and it was really useful for shooting at weird angles (e.g. lower to the ground, over a crowd, astrophotography). I wish Canon would incorporate that into their designs.
So for me, the evaluation goes as follows:
- Pros of NEX-7: Higher color depth (not very important), more DR (not very important), articulating LCD (somewhat important), (size advantage is negated by multiple lenses).
- Cons of NEX-7: Not as good high ISO performance (very important), EVF (quite important, especially for manual focus), not as many native lens options (very important), not as shallow DoF (very important).
Your real point that all future cameras will be mirrorless is of no importance to me. It may be of interest to engineers or technicians, but what matters to me is, how does that change my photography experience? As long as good lenses are still the size they are, the size reduction of the body doesn't make that much difference to me (e.g. my biggest question when choosing a camera bag is not "Will my body fit in this?" Rather, it's "Will my lenses fit in this?").
Let your awesome camera do the talking, Lonnie. When's the last time you posted a photo you took? Seems like the Sony just makes you operate your mouth (well, keyboard).
1/2 of that's fair. Truth be told, ever since advres went off on me, I've intentionally not posted any pics here. My pics are out there if you know where to look...Quote:
Originally Posted by outabounds
How about this one....Quote:
Originally Posted by outabounds
http://www.landshapephotography.com/...13542960-4.jpg
This is one of the 24"x36" canvas print I just sold today. Merry Christmas to me...
With Sony releasing the Full Frame A7Rii last week, I'm bumping this (not to be an @$$ but just to see how far we've come in 4 years). Lots of the stuff I predicted is coming true. The ability to quickly and accurately AF other manufactures lenses on a lightweight FF body (along with ultra high MP, and outstanding Dynamic Range) has lots of folks jumping on board with FE mirrorless.
I'll be getting the A7II
I'm really psyched on my mirrorless setup (Fuji XT-1), and glad I took the leap. It definitely had some shortcomings in the AF capability for action photography, but the latest firmware update aims to address that. Early reports say it's on par with 6D, 70D; I've yet to test but am cautiously optimistic. Seems to me like these things keep getting better and better.
Ummm, today?Quote:
Originally Posted by peterjones0021
Aye that's a crackerQuote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie