Uncertainty & Desire

CM - that reality check is likely to quell any frivolous desire!! ML

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CookieMonster

So, as you have outlined above, in "hot situations", what do people use for a reality check that helps them insist upon that quiet minute?

---

We've been teaching something called the "pre-mortem test," as opposed to the "post-mortem." In other words, what would the accident report say? "Avalanche professional misses obvious clues, caught in preventable slide." that one sometimes works for me.

Yeah Lynne, I've been taught a similar way to reframe a potential action, though in a guiding context. It's slightly less morbid and hinges on "...your Honor" statements. As in "Yes, your Honor, I understood that was a hazard but...." Naturally the idea is that if the statement sounds eyebrow-raising in that phrasing, it probably is.

In the organization I work for it's something of a running quip. That's allowed it to be an accepted way to question a peer's judgment while side-stepping the tension that sort of conversation often carries.

Interesting...juxtaposing uncertainty with desire, but I'm not sure that either can be fully divested from the other. If 'uncertainty' COULD be fully excised out of whatever endeavor, be it attempting that never before climbed face, or trying that cool but crazy steep chute you've been drooling over for three years but haven't yet attempted, would that not diminish the 'desire' of that endeavor to some extent...making it somehow less fulfilling when completed?

What brings me to the mountains is the same thing that brings me to sail offshore oceans...it is the fathoming of the depths of one's soul and the quickening of pulse one gets when attempting some adventure that is just a little bit unsure. It is just off the footpath of normalcy and fully in the territory of desire that one's heart beats the strongest and perhaps the truest.

Them's just my two thoughts on it, anyway.

Thanks for the great contributions; this thread is good and interesting.

I'm 42 with a young son and the only things I desire without qualification are blowjobs and tax breaks.

If a questionable slope doesn't offer a greater chance of either of those two things, I find safer terrain.

This is a phenomenal thread....subscribed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paj

I think a good idea is to get a card and laminate it, maybe 4x6, and write down a checklist of the most important factors that contribute to avalanches. It would be a reliable and methodical way to keep track of the main factors for avalanches, and it would take away the possibility of overlooking or forgetting some important factors when in the heat of the moment in the BC. Before you enter a dangerous area just look at the list and then look for those warning signs on the slopes around you.

---

I made this last year. It's just one tool you could use in your avy toolbox. Good stuff in here.
[ame="http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2575506#post2575506"]Avalanche Safety Chart Thing - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Socialist

Paj, what you are talking about sounds like the avaluator card. Pretty good for covering the basic 7 signs, makes sure you check those. Seems to be a lot of discussion on the application though in the ISSW thread. I wouldn't give it up as a checklist, but I don't use it as a green-light/red-light based upon adding up the scores.

---

The ISSW thread discussion is interesting.

More on the Avaluator, it has two applications within the package. One is the "Slope Evaluation Card" that Socialist mentioned. It is a plastic card slightly bigger than a credit card.

The other application is a "Trip Planner" inside the booklet. You can use it online here http://www.avalanche.ca/avaluator/
Input the parameters and the Trip Planner offers a recommendation.

There is a new V.2 Avaluator out this year and internally is seems the CAC are very committed to it.

My desire to ski steep exposed shit is very strong. How I'm trying to re-frame that desire is by re-reading events I've seen or re-live incidents in which I've been exposed. The sheer horror I feel and visceral nauseau I experience after doing so beats back the ski-steep-shit desire in me.

If you haven't had the pleasure of personal involvement in near-death situations read something unpleasant like Accidents in North American Mountaineering, first person accounts of burials and death, accounts of survivors guilt. There's plenty of that around and it might help one press the reset button on the testosterone meter

EDIT - I just realized that I didn't answer CM's question at all

Bumping this thread for mid-season. Desire for powder doesn't go away when you have had a lot of it, just gets amplified. And snowpacks get more complex over time, with variability as to aspect and elevation.

Also to prompt any of you (Cookie Monster) to contribute thoughts to the April issue of The Avalanche Review. Theme for that issue is human factor, decision-making, and case studies of accidents by avalanche professionals and experts. Wanna share a decision-making trap you just fell in?

PM me with questions and to receive Guidelines for Submissions. Deadline is Feb 15.

Bumping this old thread as it has some pretty pertinent information for our PWL conversation.

Great bump. Good discussion and nuggets in there.

In CO there’s always so much winter uncertainty that I try to manage the desire side of things. Set expectations at similar to a long hike - exercise, getting outside, explore, expand my skills some... and then tag on some mellow skiing at the end. At least through the winter, then open things up more come spring

The “I know the mountain” mindset seems arrogant, especially with a PWL. Working off gut feel in 40 degree terrain feels like roulette and your number is bound to come up... but as long as your solo and not dragging others with you (except SAR who always gets dragged into others’ decision making)

The card is a great idea. I have my checklist card zip tied to my beacon