I'll guarantee this would have been one thing voters would definitely remember come election time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy
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I'll guarantee this would have been one thing voters would definitely remember come election time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy
Karl, none of us know anything about your team, or where St. Louis is on a map for that matter. As the Sports Guy put it: "I didn't know there was a National League until 20 minutes ago."
My buddy who now lives in St. Louis told me on the phone today that St. Louis folks consider themselves "the best sports fans in the world." Not just the best baseball fans, the best sports fans. I found this amusing.
Karl,[/clapping hands in front of Karl's face] follow along, we've been going over rotations and lineups for weeks with the Yankees, I think everyone's a bit burnt out. Not to mention exhausted from watching 14 inning games. I've been talking about some of this stuff with people today and yesterday, though--I like Francona going with Wakefield, Schill, and Pedro for 1-3, and really worry about Red Sox defense playing perfectly against the Cards bats. Not to mention that Ortiz will be on first for the NL games...Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Stall
Everyone here is talking about it, just not online (here, anyway).
Besides, it's tough typing slow enough for you guys in the provinces to follow along...
Amazing story Ice, and no I can not imagine that happening in Boston.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
Here is the fenway version. Buddy of mine is a cop on the vineyard, comes to boston, wants to go to a game, walks up to one of the cops working the street, tells him who he is and asks him if he knows of a way to get a couple tickets. Cop gets on his radio and about 5 minutes later an undercover cop comes out of the crowd and hands him two tickets, 'Here you go, just took these off a scalper. Enjoy the game.' :D
Karl, if you think Cardinals fans are more baseball-knowledgeable than Red Sox fans, you are sadly mistaken.. FYI we sold out EVERY SINGLE GAME this year. The Cardinals did not(nor any other team). And being this is a ski forum, discussing detailed strategy minutiae would not be appropriate. Try THE REMY REPORT or any other of the many Red Sox forums where the most knowledgeable and passionate fans in the game talk turkey. And a few drunken fans who are out-of-town college students do not represent Red Sox nation. Now about those lobsters.... :eek:
FROM THE MIAMI HERALD:
Posted on Sat, Oct. 16, 2004
ALCS GAME 3 | YANKEES AT RED SOX, 8:19 TONIGHT, CHS. 7, 29
Believing in their Bosox
The Red Sox trail 2-0 in the ALCS, but Boston fans have rallied behind their team like never before, clinging to a belief that this is finally their year.
BY KEVIN BAXTER
kbaxter@herald.com
BOSTON - Long-suffering Red Sox fans have waited 86 years for a World Series victory. So waiting three more days to see their team play the Yankees in the American League Championship Series really isn't that much of a hardship.
At least that's how Tim Keefe was feeling after Friday's game was postponed, leaving his tickets useless until Games 5 on Monday -- a game that won't be played if the Red Sox don't win this weekend.
''Oh, there is going to be a Game 5,'' said Keefe, still in his roof box seats high above the first-base line after most of the other fans had left. ``There's going to be a Game 7. [Curt] Schilling's going to come back and we're going to win.''
It would be hard to find anyone in New England who would disagree with that optimism. Despite temperatures in the mid-50s and rain a near certainty, fans in Red Sox jackets and caps began filling the streets around Fenway Park by 2 p.m., more than six hours before game time.
BOSTON ABUZZ
But you didn't have to come to the ballpark to see the Red Sox or experience Red Sox fever. All over Boston, massive billboards featuring the likenesses of Pedro Martinez and Manny Ramirez and the slogan ''Keep the Faith'' have been erected. Red Sox banners hang from apartment balconies, bumper stickers proclaiming ''The Yankees Still Suck'' are ubiquitous, and on one downtown overpass a traffic sign warning of a reverse curve has been altered to read ``Reverse the Curse.''
The tabloid Boston Herald, whose movie ads had been changed to carry pro-Red Sox messages Friday, wrapped the paper in a four-color Red Sox poster and carried 15 pages of ALCS coverage inside -- despite the fact no game had been played the day before. One feature was a half-page graphic that explained how Ramirez and Kevin Millar do their celebratory handshakes following home runs. The staid Boston Globe, meanwhile, handed out cardboard ''Go Sox'' placards and blue-and-red Mardi Gras beads with their paper.
Even the screen savers on the business center computers at the Marriott in suburban Quincy carry pro-Bosox messages.
''The fans here are just totally baseball fans,'' says outfielder Ellis Burks, who broke in with Boston, played for four other teams, then re-signed with the Red Sox as a free agent in February. ``Just rowdy, awesome crowds. They treat their players great and that's what you expect when you come to the Red Sox.''
Well, that and sellouts. Despite single-game ticket prices as high as $75, there hasn't been an empty seat at Fenway Park since May 2003, a string of 145 consecutive games. Ticket brokers were asking more than $700 for playoff tickets on eBay on Friday.
''Boston is a great town to come to,'' said Linda Griggs, a native of nearby Andover who arrived at Fenway around 3 p.m. wearing a white-and-red Red Sox home jersey and blue Red Sox cap. ``The atmosphere is just electric. That's why we come so early. To take part in it.''
Griggs, who has relocated to Albany, N.Y., came to the ballpark with neighbor Nancy Jones, a Yankee fan who won the $96 bleacher seats in an online lottery. But Jones made the mistake of securing the tickets with her Yankees credit card, which almost cost her the seats when the Fenway Park employee at the will-call window refused to honor it.
''The passion is incredible,'' Griggs said. ``You stay with your passion.''
DIEHARDS
Passion.
It's a word that comes up often when talking about the Red Sox and their fans. And it's something that can be felt on the field, says outfielder Dave Roberts.
''To say the least,'' said Roberts, who came to Boston following a midseason trade with the Los Angeles Dodgers. ``They're so knowledgeable and passionate. Their love for this team goes back generations, and until you wear a Red Sox uniform you don't really understand that concept.
``There are so many expectations of the fans for us. And we feel the same way about the fans.''
Said manager Terry Francona, also in his first year in Boston: ``Our fans are incredibly excitable and passionate about our ballclub. So if there's anything to yell about, they're going to get behind our ballclub more than any place I've ever seen.''
That, of course, has been the problem: Sox fans haven't had much to yell about in October since 1918. Keefe, however, is sure this is the year. So is Griggs -- and most of the rest of Boston.
''I always have faith. Without it, what have you got?'' Griggs said. ``The Red Sox rule.''
or try the sons of sam horn board. pretty intense.
www.sonsofsamhorn.com
Dave and Dex, and anyone else who doesn't know:
Peter Gammons, I believe is from Boston, and ESPN pays him for his knowledge of the game. He believes St. Louis to have the best fans in Baseball. Period. What else is there to say.
Boston = along with the Cubs Fans, the longest suffering - that does not mean the best or anything else.
New York - Don't even get me started - spoiled bandwagon chasers.
I'll restate what I said in the first post of the thread: "if you don't know about the deal with baseball in my town, then you're basically showing your ignorance of our pasttime."
DaveTV - once more thing - it is without a doubt the most true statement in the world to say that St. Louis fans are widely regarded as the most knowledgeable baseball fans in the country.
Hell, just about every chica in this 'burb knows the game inside and out - think about that one. Hey, but we can't get any respect from you east coast elitists, so that's nothing new to us.
Let's play the game - hopefully we'll make it 3-0 for World Series victories against you folks.
i'm ignorant! not only do i not know the deal with baseball in your league or your town, i don't know where your town is. "missouri"? wha?
i do know that i am driving there on tuesday to see game 3 because tickets are 1/3 what they are going for in fenway. :D
edit: Karl - we're not being elitist! we just don't know shit about St. L. because we have never had to. i really think you are reading more tension into this than there is.
edit 2: and there is ZERO in common between Cubs fans and Sox fans. ZERO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Stall
...............
And how does one measure this? And East-coast elitist? What does heartland or coast have to do with anything? I bet people here talk baseball all year more than there. and we were in SECOND PLACE behind NY all year. I saw no one here diss STL or their fans, but you are dissing Red Sox fans as some sort of bandwagon-jumpers. When a cold, rainy night game in April against Tampa Bay is SOLD OUT that shows something, BTW...Quote:
DaveTV - once more thing - it is without a doubt the most true statement in the world to say that St. Louis fans are widely regarded as the most knowledgeable baseball fans in the country.
EDIT: Enough smack - let the games bgin, the rest of the mags are probably sick of this discussion..I just hope we jump out to a big first-quarter lead.. :D :eek:
This is a great matchup. The dominant offensive teams in each League squaring off. Boston led the AL in runs, BA, SLG and OBP. St. Louis led the NL in runs, BA and SLG.
Neither team is exactly a slouch in pitching, but I don't think the old maxim "good pitching beats good hitting" holds true in today's game.
did my scouting:
starting pitching:advantage sox
bullpen: advantage sox
defense: advantage sox, but close and if cards take advantage of key weakness they could tip the scales
hitting: draw
managing: advantage cards
tougher oposing ballpark/fans: advantage sox
i really thought i would have found more advantage cards in my comparisons, but i didn't. its hard to compare numbers between leauges, and the sox have a worse interleauge record than the cards, so you could factor that in. The sox don't blow the cards away in anything but on paper i think the sox have a better than good chance at this. In my heart i know its not going to be easy. every game will be a battle. i also disagree with the ad on the 'good pitching and defense wins in october' see the florida marlins last year, and the angels the year before.
here we go wakefield, here we go. clap clap. here we go wakefield, here we go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTV
no smack-talking intended. just advocating for Cardinal Nation. But, your statement that people there talk baseball there more than here is dead wrong. Again, ask Peter Gammons, a Red Sox fan himself. Maybe you've never been here, but baseball is all we have...no ocean, no basketball, just one university, no heritage on par with the great history of boston, just Fucking baseball...understand.
I like the Red Sox, have always rooted for them, and always will, except for this week. I do not get involved with flame wars, but some good-natured ribbing is all good.
MaYBE you'll learn a bit more about baseball in St. Louis over the next several days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by basom
:eek: What the fuck are you talking about - we have like a combined 17 gold gloves on our team. Renteria, Rolen, Walker, Matheny, EDMONDS.
Your pitching is way better and might spell the end for our glorious season, but that's why they play the games, right?
I drove thru there 1 hour before game 6 last week- I am aware that baseball is big there (what about the Ramses??) - we are hardly uninformed bandwagon-jumpers however... Why so sensitive, no one attacked the Cards or their fans...? They are well-respected thruout the country!Quote:
Maybe you've never been here, but baseball is all we have...
obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Stall
theory is better pitching factors into your defense rating. and how the defense has been playing in the last two series. again, its a really hard thing to compare, and i obviously have only seen a handfull of cards games, so call horseshit if you will. we have a few pretty good fielders too my friend. Tito has a quiver of guys sitting who really compliment the team for defensive (and ofensive) situational stuff in the latter innings. but the defense is the closest thing besides depth of hitting, as i mentioned. and if the cards scheme to play the sox's weekness well, and take advantage of them they get the nod in that catagory, as i tried to note in my earlier post.
also, anyone in the media proclaiming one town the "best sports town" or one fan base the "bestes fans ever" is silly. even peter gammons is silly when he does it. it has no bering on anything, he is trying to sell something, and you are the customer. i admit he's good at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTV
I never once referred to Boston fans as bandwagon jumpers - I don't think that at all. I have full-on respect for Red Sox fans, and I don't mean to come off as overly sensitive. If they lose tonight, however, I might get a bit sensitive.
It's all good.
Base: you're way off on the defense. Maybe if we were playing the whole series under American Leage rules you could stretch it and call the defense even, but we're not. With Ortiz playing 3 full games at 1B (Tito will only pull him if it's a huge blowout in our favor) that is a major strike against our defense. Ortiz will be playing first when Derek Lowe is pitching as well which can't be a good thing.
My breakdowns would look like this:
Starters: advantage Sox, but Woody Williams has been a big-game pitcher the last couple of years and Matt Morris is talented enough to turn it on. Where the Sox should get a boost is Pedro pitching on the extra day rest (something like 2.90 ERA vs. 4.77 ERA on 4 days). Look for Suppan to get absolutely rocked in game 4 which could help DLowe's confidence if he can hold the Cards down early.
Bullpen: Sox, but not by much. Izzy has been pretty solid and Ray King will be the best lefty Damon/Ortiz have faced in a month.
Defense: Cardinals, this shouldn't even be a question. Their worst fielders (Pujols and Womack) equal our guys at those positions (ignoring Ortiz). Sanders and Manny cancel out, and then they have gold glovers at every other position (although Mueller, Tek, and Cabrera ain't slouches)
Lineup: Cardinals have a tiny edge. Womack and Renteria are gonna put a lot of pressure on the Sox defense and that could be crucial in St. Louis. Damon/Bellhorn are better hitters, but they won't cause as many issues for the Cards pitching. Manny/Ortiz are about equal to Pujols/Edmonds, but Rolen and Walker are better protection than Trot and Tek. The Sox big advantage is at the bottom of the order: Mueller, Millar and Cabrera should be able to put some solid ABs together, while Sanders/Matheny/Mabry (or Cedeno) can all be pitched to.
Bench/managing/intangibles: Even. Tito isn't the greatest manager by any measure and he's nuts if he doesn't start Mirabelli tonight, but he's got the team believing in him. Larussa has been overrated for years. The Sox bench gets a check, but St. Louis just seems like one of those teams that works well together (and they don't have Dale Sveum coaching third base).
PS: couldn't get it together to sleep out for tickets last night, hopefully my dad has a line on a seat for me sunday (he's in already), but I'll be at Brother Jimmy's in Harvard for the game tonight...
LETS GET IT ON!
I thought you guys would find the following amusing (from the StL Post-Dispatch):
"I'm trying to understand how it is that the Red Sox are being portrayed as a scrappy, hustling, ragamuffin, underdog, against-all-odds team when in fact they've won more than 100 games this season, and have been bankrolled for a player payroll of $128 million. These are not the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, OK? Boston is hardly the Little Engine That Could.
Just because the Red Sox grew some whiskers, wear baggy uniform pants and have a few colorful personalities, we're supposed to believe that they're the baseball equivalent of the basketball movie, "Hoosiers?" Sorry, no sale."
My Sentiments exactly: (again below from Bernie Miklasz of the post):
"And now we present our first official second-guess of La Russa. He's made all the right moves in this postseason, but I'm puzzled as to why he refuses to give Haren a starting assignment. Haren was easily the Cardinals' most effective pitcher on Saturday night; he took control of a runaway game and held the Red Sox in place with 3 2/3 innings of poised relief. Haren throws a terrific split-fingered fastball that's equally nasty to hitters on both sides of the plate.
And Haren's impressive outing only reinforced his presence as someone who could make a difference. It's not as if La Russa and pitching coach Dave Duncan are teeming with options. Jeff Suppan and Williams have earned their places in the postseason rotation. But the other two starters, Jason Marquis and Matt Morris, have combined for a 5.91 ERA this postseason. In 24 innings they've allowed 26 hits, including eight homers, and have walked 16. Right now, Haren has the fresher arm and superior stuff. And at Fenway, he proved he wouldn't be rattled by the setting. "
They did not win 100 games this year, and whatever FOX is portraying them as, it's for their ratings..We know what they are.. And they ARE scrappy and hustling with an all-for-one TEAM mentality. Why the animosity, would you rather be playing the Yankees?Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Stall
Dave,
Are you high? What about me putting up a sportswriter quote can be construed as animosity? I just thought it was funny. Jesus - mr. sensitive. You must be used to the dickhead Yankees fans. No, I would rather play the Sox, but I'd also rather have some starting fucking pitching.
Also, 8 plus however many they won during reg. season must equal 100 or more.
The facial hair is a slap at the Yankees. Meester Steinbrenner does not allow facial hair or long hair(Ask Esteban Louiza, who had to shave his longtime beard before joining the empire.) And I AM high.. :D And whatever our payroll is, we just dope-slapped the team with a payroll 1/3 higher than OURS. And we are quite giddy about it.
2004 MLB Payrolls
Team Payroll
N.Y. Yankees $182,835,513
Boston 125,208,542
Anaheim 101,084,667
New York Mets 100,629,303
Philadelphia 93,219,167
Chicago Cubs 91,101,667
Los Angeles 89,694,342
Atlanta 88,507,788
San Francisco 82,019,167
Seattle 81,543,833
St. Louis 75,633,517
Houston 74,666,303
Arizona 70,204,984
Ch. White Sox 65,212,500
Colorado 64,590,403
Oakland 59,825,167
Texas 54,825,973
San Diego 54,639,503
Minnesota 53,585,000
Baltimore 51,212,653
Toronto 50,017,000
Kansas City 47,609,000
Detroit 46,353,554
Montreal 43,197,500
Cincinnati 43,067,858
Florida 42,118,042
Cleveland 34,569,300
Pittsburgh 32,227,929
Tampa Bay 29,506,667
Milwaukee 27,518,500
Well, O.K. then. I might have to join you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DaveTV
I tried to stay out of this thread, but I just had to throw out my opinion about this. I see the redsox with an advantage in starting pitching, relief pitching, and closer. And in todays game, good pitching still beats good hitting. Why do you think Maddux has 300 wins in his career. He is a good pitcher. If any pitcher is bring his best stuff with good control any offense is going to have a hard time to put runs on the board. Right now all the Sox pitchers are bringing good stuff.
Right now the Redsox have so much momentum they will be hard to stop. When you get 5,6,7 guys in a lineup who are all hitting well at the same time you will score a lot of runs and get clutch hits. Right now the Cards pitching is struggling, the Sox pitching has never been better, and the Sox bats are alive. We got Pedro on the hill Tuesday working with a fresh bullpen. Ortiz is scary at first but hopefully Francona will use him just like Milar. Hitting wins games, defense wins championships.