Solo Tours - think they're alright

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClearCutter

I was thinking of doing a few solo trips.

My train of thought tells me that I should stay below treeline, unless of coarse alpine avy hazard is low. I dont think I would venture in the alpine alone, because the avys there are bigger and more dangerous. However, If you consider risks associated with falling headfirst into tree wells, etc, it may balance out with solo alpine skiing.

So my question to you guys is: would you ski alpine terrain alone or would you stick to the treeline/below treeline areas?

---

Really depends on snow conditions. Hiking to some snow patch alone in June or July? Hell yes.

This is really an interesting discussion. Would you really go into avalance terrain in a group, if you weren't willing to go there alone? That really sounds like false safety in numbers.

Who would tour moderate risk Alpine areas alone in mid-Winter? I would, paying a lot of attention and being ready to turn around if I feel any discomfort with conditions and terrain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose

This is weird: Sometimes, I almost want something bad to happen to me when I am skiing solo, just to see if I could get myself out of the situation. (Anyone else feel this?)

---

I wouldn't say that I hope bad stuff happens, but I will constantly think about what I would do in the case of something bad happening.

I think in order to safely ski solo, you must be confident in your own abilities to travel in avalanche terrain. You don't get to talk over alternatives to anyone else and get their input. If you feel safe leading a group of people who have no idea what they're doing, I think you would be fine going out by yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose

Sometimes, I almost want something bad to happen to me when I am skiing solo, just to see if I could get myself out of the situation. (Anyone else feel this?)

---

Sort of. I often want something bad to happen to you. But not to see if you can get yourself out of it, just to see you die. Is that weird? I mean, I don't even know you, but I often hear a voice in my head saying "kill monkeywrenchmoose." I never knew what it was referring to until today.



(Obviously ,I am kidding. I wish you the best in your endeavors).

I always ski alone, unless I'm with someone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chnaiur

Would you really go into avalance terrain in a group, if you weren't willing to go there alone? That really sounds like false safety in numbers.

---

I think it comes down to the fact that everyone seems to have a different level of risk that they feel is acceptable for what they get out of the sport. When you tour alone certain risks increase. Therefore, in order to stay within your acceptable level of risk, you may avoid terrain that you would normally go into when with a group.

It isn't really a false safety in numbers. There is without a doubt an increase in safety when travelling in groups as opposed to being alone.

yeah no doubt, whenever I tour solo I'm always thinking about how I can get out of a situation. You also always have to go prepared to spend more time outdoors than you plan.

I agree that being alone actually heightens your awareness of your surroundings. I know it does for me.

I will add that generally I like to go places near to other people when I'm alone... if anything for a safety valve.

I tour alone all the time, in fact I just got back from a solo tour. The way I see it, I would certainly hope that anyone that goes in small groups (like 2) is fully confident in their ability to do whatever they are doing alone. Because if something happens where the partner is needed, that person is now worse than alone- they are working by themselves, and encumbered with a injured/debilitated/dead partner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nomensteven

I think it comes down to the fact that everyone seems to have a different level of risk that they feel is acceptable for what they get out of the sport. When you tour alone certain risks increase. Therefore, in order to stay within your acceptable level of risk, you may avoid terrain that you would normally go into when with a group.

It isn't really a false safety in numbers. There is without a doubt an increase in safety when travelling in groups as opposed to being alone.

---

I agree that in absoulte terms, the level of safety is higher when travelling in a group.

However, my point is that in many cases that extra safety level is more than offset by more risky behavior. The extra false confidence from numbers will lead many to go into more unsafe places.

If you get buried by an avalance, chances are that you will die (about 60% on average, since most people aren't found within the critical 15 minutes even if they are travelling in groups). Granted, that 60% lethality number may be 90% for solo travellers, but its still way better to not get hit.

I've had some wonderful solo ski tours and scrambles. I'm careful when I go solo. One of my most memorable ski tours was a solo Birthday Tour in June 2004. The route was devoid of other humans, a rarity for a weekend day in June. I flushed a porcupine and it climbed up to the top of a small Lyall's larch tree. The mass of the porcupine caused the larch to droop so that the porcupine was suspended over 6 feet of air, spooked as hell. Idiot me, I forgot to take a camera.

Two things I don't do alone:
1) going out in the backcountry
2) SCUBA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

Two things I don't do alone:
1) going out in the backcountry
2) SCUBA

---

You might have time for them if you cut out all the solo sex.

poll: how many of you would go solo into alpine terrain in moderate avy conditions?

I love skiing solo in alpine terrain in any avy conditions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClearCutter

poll: how many of you would go solo into alpine terrain in moderate avy conditions?

---

Poll: how many people doubt you know what you're talking about?

In the past I would have not given it much thought but since breaking my leg I would at least have one of those GPS tranponders that someone posted on the other page. As I'm sure many can contest, broken legs or blown knees kind of cramp your style. I certainly couldn't have got myself out -- who knows I guess if you want to survive maybe you could do more than you think but I'm guessing I would have been SOL. At least with a backpack of goodies to keep me warm though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClearCutter

poll: how many of you would go solo into alpine terrain in moderate avy conditions?

---

Often in my past. Not since I married because part of the deal I made to be with this woman is that I would respect her wishes in this case even though she doesn't understand how I am able to travel safely alone in the alpine. Now I always ski with partners but when I was single and didn't have someone dependent on me I did it all the time. I still run and bike in the mountains solo. That doesn't bother her like skiing solo does even though I could make the argument that the risk is equivalent.

I will ski in considerable or high avalanche conditions too but not any time anywhere with anybody. Has to be the right situation.

Wow. This has to be one of the most productive, interesting discussions i've seen in the ski/snowboard forum in quite a while. Hope it continues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawless

I wouldn't say that I hope bad stuff happens, but I will constantly think about what I would do in the case of something bad happening.

I think in order to safely ski solo, you must be confident in your own abilities to travel in avalanche terrain. You don't get to talk over alternatives to anyone else and get their input. If you feel safe leading a group of people who have no idea what they're doing, I think you would be fine going out by yourself.

---

Lawless. I may have phrased that wrong. I too constantly think about what I would do if something bad happened.



I have heard a very valid argument that the personal GPS locators (spot, ACR) also provide a false sense of security and are now being abused. i.e. people are pressing the button when things get a little hairy and are totally forgetting about the concept of responsibility and self rescue. Does this make sense?

Yes. But I also ratchet up the caution level.

Here. Read this article about personal locator beacons. Discuss:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...a100601D23.DTL

My caution level rises considerably when i'm solo

When i'm headed out by myself my focus is on staying safe first, and second really studying the snowpack (digging pits, paying attention to where good snow is versus crud that wouldn't be fun skiing). This way I am gonna have a much clearer picture of the snowpack and when my group and I do get out for some skiing we can make the most of it.

I take my time and enjoy being out by myself and the peace and quiet that goes along with it. Skiing and getting great turns is the last thing on my mind since that usually involves avalanche terrain.

I pretty much consider it a winter hike.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose

Here. Read this article about personal locator beacons. Discuss:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...a100601D23.DTL

---

I can see your point. People seem to abuse the system. Personally I would hope it would be impossible to accidently press the button. I would never use the GPS unless I broke leg, etc. but like you said that is taking some of the reponsibility away from myself. I guess if people want to take the if you're gonna die then suck it up I would not take the chance myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crass3000

I can see your point. People seem to abuse the system. Personally I would hope it would be impossible to accidently press the button. I would never use the GPS unless I broke leg, etc. but like you said that is taking some of the reponsibility away from myself. I guess if people want to take the if you're gonna die then suck it up I would not take the chance myself.

---

Prehaps some sort of waiver, that highlights when and when you cannot press the button would help. If the button is pressed in a non emergency situation, the person should get charged accordingly for the rescue costs & the transponder taken away indefinately.

As for the button getting pressed accidentaly...This would likely seem to be a design flaw of the transponders, as it should be impossible for the button to be accidentaly pressed if the transponder is just sitting in your backpack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClearCutter

Prehaps some sort of waiver, that highlights when and when you cannot press the button would help. If the button is pressed in a non emergency situation, the person should get charged accordingly for the rescue costs & the transponder taken away indefinately.

---

i'm definitely not letting you take MY easy button!!

Solo trips are something that I value in my life, and I will not be changing that. I can't speak to touring alone, as I haven't done that, but I do take several solo backpacking trips a year by myself, often for a week or more at a time and usually most of the trip is off-trail. There's something extremely rewarding about my time alone in the wilderness, but no matter the risks, I will continue doing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nomensteven

It isn't really a false safety in numbers. There is without a doubt an increase in safety when travelling in groups as opposed to being alone.

---

really??

^^^
nice post.

definitely not me.

I don't do backsides solo either, particularly after I ran into a tree, and knowing that people have died in tree wells there. It's not the avy, it's the injuries. and with more young kids getting into doing backsides, I'd rather not have them think it's an okay thing to do, since we tell them not to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BSS

There are plenty of old backcountry soloists around and there are plenty of bold backcountry soloists around, but there aren't a whole lot of old, bold, backcountry soloists around.

It's your God given right to put yourself in as much danger as you can stomach. And as long as your pursuits don't unknowingly endanger someone else, then knock yourself out.

---

well put

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by powdork

your sig got me thinking, we really need mrwaffles989 to chime in on this one.

---

I never said the quote in the sig. Sirfuckingjongalotdouchebag said that. blah blah, I never called SAR or needed rescue blah blah.

I go solo alot. It's better. People who bitch and moan just don't have enough self reliance. If something ever happens, I prepare for the worse. It would be my own damn fault. If I choose to go solo, I also choose to accept the risks/consequences. I know, I will prolly die soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by time2clmb

Wow...I was expecting this thread to be full of a bunch of people blabbing verbal diarrhea about how obviously dangerous it is to go solo. Not the case at all so far. After all, most people that do head out seem to have a pretty good handle of exactly what risks they are assuming, so to point out the dangers of it is pretty fucking useless and obvious.

I've been out alone a few times and I really enjoyed it. It's just different and there are some benefits to it that a bunch of you already pointed out. I'd like to think I was really conservative the few times I have been out skiing alone. I do alot of solo scrambling and hiking in the summer when I can't find climbing partners also, and I find that in all cases (skiing / hiking / scrambling ect) I feel much more keyed in to my environment. Very relaxing peaceful feeling to it. It's the ultimate in self discipline, risk management, and self responsibility in an age where every one wants to blame some one else for what happens. I find that refreshing.

I normally don't really talk about my solo trips with people because most just simply don't get it unless they do it themself. I find that people that lack understanding of the activity are usually the biggest nay sayers.

---

I agree with time2clmb. I ski in the backcountry usually once a week mainly because there isn't a lot of partners around here that have mid week off, or I stink. :p I stay away from big lines when I am out by myself. I enjoy being outside by myself but I really like skiing big lines with friends.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrwaffles989

I never said the quote in the sig. Sirfuckingjongalotdouchebag said that. blah blah, I never called SAR or needed rescue blah blah.

I go solo alot. It's better. People who bitch and moan just don't have enough self reliance. If something ever happens, I prepare for the worse. It would be my own damn fault. If I choose to go solo, I also choose to accept the risks/consequences. I know, I will prolly die soon.

---

Shit dude, I thought you were Jongy! (i.e. his alias for a good troll)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose

Here. Read this article about personal locator beacons. Discuss:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...a100601D23.DTL

---

aron ralston gives them 1 thumb up! :D

I have never actualy toured with other people.

I am slow, still learning and no one would put up with my frequent stops for Smoke Breaks

I have been out for a quick (Sort Of) skin up and run down 2X this week.

But for some reason I still carry a Shovel, Probe, Beepin! also have Radio and Cell phone. ++ other random stuff

I tour alone occasionally. I'm a really strong swimmer though, not sure I'd be comfortable solo if I wasn't

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripzalot

aron ralston gives them 1 thumb up! :D

---

RLMFAO:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ripzalot

aron ralston gives them 1 thumb up! :D

---

FKNA! :yourock::yourock::fm::fm:

I usually take a dull knock off leatherman just in case I need to cut my arm off. That way I feel safe.

On the serious note, and as others have quipped about...skiing solo helps me to get in touch with my surroundings, enjoy the quiet of nature (no ipod here), and gives me the "man vs. wild" opportunities that our predecesors enjoyed before modern times.

Sure I ain't no Jim Bridger but being out in a canyon, on a ridge, or skiing the steep pow solo (without others, roads, or distractions) brings me some incredible inner peace. The meditative state of mind and ability to go at my own pace are uncomparable.

I also like skiing with a few partners that are into the same things. Small parties contribute to what I am after when I go out into the BC. The most important is my wife.

1. can you accurately access risk?
2. do you know your skill level?
3. can you accept the of consequences of a worst case scenario?

these 3 things are ALL required, be it with other people or not. its that the ANSWERS to these questions vary depending on the situation. ie: partners? conditions? setting?




and i mean SERIOUSLY what the fuck. if i broke my ankle by myself i would not sit down and wait to die.

I have done a few solo trips and while I don't like doing it sometimes its hard to find partners.When in that situation I try to venture out to busy places and/or drastically minimalize exposure.