I'm considering replacing my liners but the TGR "deal" essentially covers the cost of shipping and that's it. Are there any legitimate deals anymore, or is the MSRP it?
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I'm considering replacing my liners but the TGR "deal" essentially covers the cost of shipping and that's it. Are there any legitimate deals anymore, or is the MSRP it?
Thanks 100-Oaks.
Your input confirms my concerns that the Intuitions aren't going to take up the room around the ankles that I need them to. The Intuitions seem to be a step between full foam and standard "flow" fit liners.
I've been in foam boots for ~20 years now, and there's no going back to C pads, etc ... I'll probably have my local shop set me up with some foam Conformables, and sell the intuitions.
Grinding/shaving down just the liner isn't going to buy as much as you think it will, and it's a good way to end up with frost bite - no shit, ask me how I know ...Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
If length is the issue then you'll need to address the shell - not the liner. Any shop worth their salt should be able to bump out the shell at the toe(s) exactly where you need it with a hydraulic punch.
Actually, I buy all of my boots small enough that they need to be punched out at the big toe. That's right ... if it doesn't need to be punched out then it's just too damn big :smile:
Actually I already tried that, and the despite really seeming to know his stuff the bootfitter just distorted the shell without creating any more room at the toe.Quote:
Originally Posted by YoEddy
The open-top, lightweight thin-sole design of the Typhoon shell means the hydraulic jack simply bows the sole downward instead of pushing out the toe.
Or, maybe the bootfitter didn't use enough heat on the toe, I don't know. Maybe he didn't have much experience with Pebax...
Here's the Typhoon punch thread: [ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155751"]Warning: Scarpa AT boots & toe punch issues - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]
Yeah, I remember that thread ...
I've punched out many boots, but to your point never a Pebax shell (at least I don't think so ... ) so I can't say there will be a difference, but if I had to guess I'd say there shouldn't be any.
Someone else in that thread mentioned isolating the heat, which is key to NOT warping the sole or the rest of the shell. It's also very important to get the area you're going to punch VERY hot, which then requires much less pressure to punch and subsequently puts less force into warping the rest of the boot. But, there's a fine line between the right really hot temp, and melting the plastic (done that ... not too big of a deal unless aesthetics are really important).
With your length issue - is it one toe that is the problem, or all of them? I ask because the majority of punches I've done are for the big toe, or perhaps the second toe that is longer on some folks, but always a specific toe so that the punch head is actually the size & shape of a large cherry to just smaller than a golf ball. The area you heat is correspondingly 'small' and isolated (as stated in that thread with heat tape, or flashing, wet towels, etc).
What form punch did your boot fitter use? Was it a ball shaped form, or the larger oblong, or even forefoot shaped? The larger the form the larger the area that has to be super-heated, which again is harder to control warping.
Anyway - the fact they left the punch in for 2 days still has me thinking they weren't all that experienced (or Pebax is some funky shit with massive memory characteristics).
So all of that said I'd still recommend to NOT shave the liner. Even if you run hot as you've said your skin is that much closer to the plastic that is surrounded by snow. The last time I got frost bite it was 27° with 2' of fresh. I never got cold, and stayed out all day to enjoy the freshies. By the time I got to the parking lot and took off my sock my whole big toe was black ...
Don't do it!!
I think he used a ram about the shape of a whole forefoot, it was pretty big. My issues are probably just the big and second toes, the second toe being the longest and actually "double-jointed" from being squished backwards my whole life.
Spooky stuff about the frostbite.
Aha, a "Greek" foot. Egyptian foot is where the big toe is the longest ...Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
If I were you I'd try to have them punched again - the right way. Put your bare foot in the shell and snug your toes up to the front, and with a ball-peen hammer or similar tap to find the exact spot where your toe is in the shell - mark them directly with a cross hair on the outside of the shell with a marker.
Then have the boot fitter punch out with a small form just where the marks are. Chances are the extra room made for the longest toe will result in just enough room for the big toe too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by folkstr
Folkster,
I've got a pair of Luxury Liners in low volume. Probably the best you can do for big calves. They're 28s and didn't work for me. Just a few days use. $75.
Out of curiosity...which Scarpa liner comes in Tornados/Hurricanes....obviously Typhoons have tongues, as answered above....do either Tornado (the white pros) or Hurricane....2008 and up, come with wrap liners....or if I want wrap style i'm going to have to get some on my own...makes a big difference as to whether i'll buy a brand new pair of scarpas or used. If I have to change out the new liners to a wrap liner anyway, I'm going used and saving some coin.
Kudos to Intuition. They are da bomb.
I asked if I could swap out my stock Typhoon liners with something that would take up more volume, and they sent me some Luxury liners without a question ... all I had to do was return the stock liners that I have.
Awesome customer support in an era of questionable customer loyalty.
Got hold of some scarpa liners for kinda cheap to replace Garmonts that i've worn holes in
http://img.sierratradingpost.com/ere...ize&redirect=0
Intuitions?
Foot beds?
Rice or Oven?
Tornado Pros came with Powerwrap Intuitions. I am not sure about the Hurricanes, but, I am installing my Powerwrap liners from my Tornado Pro's in my Typhoons tonight to see how the fit is.
This is a great thread!
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac
Intuitions: I believe so. Looks like an early generation powerwrap?
Foot Beds: I disagree with Lee on this point...Footbeds ALWAYS!
Rice or Oven: Oven, oven, oven. I have 10 Intuition molds done in my home oven (read: Maytag) and the people I have done them for have said nothing but good things about my molds.
Search for Yooper's Intuition molding thread...Great beta there!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
Anyone care to post up the "rice instructions"? Search of the webz led to nothing...
Still a bit confused, I'm wondering why do the molding and then slip the footbed back in- isn't that kind of defeating the point of this fully moldable liner?Quote:
Originally Posted by F.D.V.
I've got last season's 32 boots, which were the first season they used a footbed. I've also got an old pair from the season previous, which was heat molded, has no footbed, and contours very nicely to my bare foot.
Jong, I would recommend that you read Yooper's thread on molding them Intuitions.
When I mold my Intuitions, I have my footbed on, so the liner molds to your foot as well as the footbed. If you do it the right way, the fit cannot be beat!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski_dude
This is more of a Gfit question but since it involves my beloved Intuitions I figured I would put it in here for reference and since it does not deserve its own thread let alone this post.
So I am trying to figure out if its worth it to go through the trouble of molding my Gfit 3 liners. They are horrible as is right now so I threw my intuitions from my T1's in My Adrenalines and wow my feet are happy.
So I guess I am left with a couple options here.
1. I could swap my liners back and forth since I cant possible tele and alpine at the same time. My only concern here is the added wear and then I would be screwed in 2 boots. I saw someone else talking about doing this, swapping not being screwed.
2. I mold the Gfits, I have heard some bad reviews on these liners. This way the outside would be molded to boot though. It would also not be as stiff, which sucks.
Anybody have an opinion on this? or used a intuition that was molded to there foot but another boot?
Also I cant afford another set of intuitions at this point.
Sorry GFits are complete utter dogshit.
On footbeds or not - do whatever makes your feet happy
Yooper\s tutorial on cooking is good IF YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS.
Great thread.
Shortcut to Yoopers thread.
[ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102575"]Tutorial: Molding Intuition Liners - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]
Cook the Gfits and see how they work. I had them in my G-rides, and they were okay, but not as good as my Intuitions in my Adrenalins. If they don't work swap your intuitions back and forth until you can afford another pair, or they wear out and you have no choice but to buy another pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by rludes025
The biggest problem I see is if the shells the the boots are very different in volume and shape it could affect the liners.
I was hoping Garmont would improve this year's Radium Gfit liners. It looks like they made something of an effort: the toebox is now an orange foamy material not unlike that which Scarpa puts into their Intuitions. They also moved the stitching out of the toe (it used to come across the top, and the toebox was stitched onto the non-thermomouldable sole...duh), so I guess the point is that the toe will heatmold properly, unlike last year's Gfits which never budged.
Well, I haven't thermo'ed them yet. But I can say that the toebox is still the same conical toe in dimension, and the orange foam is still stiff. My hopes are not high. Garmont needs to change the dimensions of the toe so the bloody liner isn't a cone. People don't have pointy triangle feet.
And ya, if you're going to do footbeds, put them in when heatmolding -- after the liners are heated, that is.
Rob, if you need to rebake, just come into ER with your footbeds.
Drop me a line first, we'll sort it. ;p
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnow
Thanks KP but I ended up returning them last season. I really think footbeds are still necessary if you are looking for a performance fit because there is no way the liner alone provides enough support to the foot. Body weight alone is enough to deform the soles. And that said, I think most people in a lower volume boot (ie. any plug boot, myself trying to fit them in Garmont Shamans) are going to have a difficult time making any Intuition liner work with foot beds in because the liners are just too thick and take up too much room.Quote:
Originally Posted by khyber.pass
I was really hoping these would work for me, maybe I just had to endure the 3-5 day torture fest as some others have talked about before they would work, wasn't willing to do that.
IMO Intuition needs to re-think their attitude on the whole no footbed issue. Everyone in their office promotes this but I just don't see how liner alone is enough, if comfort is your only requirement, than yeah, maybe, but fit and performance, no way. I would like to see all their liners coming with a flat sole or maybe even a 3mm thickness instead of the 9 they use now so footbeds can fit. Doesn't Scarpa have liners with a flat sole in all their boots? Anway, rant over.
When I was at Intuition last Spring (2009) they had a thin sole liner for use with footbeds. I don't know if it was a prototype or an early production model or whatever. I tried the no footbed approach but I really need more support. My next step is to remould with a footbed and see how that goes.
Hey Rob, didn't realise that was an old post ;p
Yes, the Dalbello and Scarpa Intuitions have a 3mm sole. And yah, you can now get the thinner sole through Intuition, it just depends if they have it in stock.
I got myself a pair of the Scarpa Intuition liners to try out this year in my Radiums, actually, as I find they fit better. The Scarpas have the orange toebox which I find is a better fit on the toes, plastic on front and back, rubberized bottoms and a thinner sole.
And I agree on footbeds. Perhaps if you don't pronate you don't need 'em. But I certainly do need beds, otherwise my feet pronate and my ankles crush themselves into a bloody pulp against the side of what is an unforgiving plastic tube and my arches start screaming and it is pain, pain, pain. Frankly I recommend to anyone who has never toured to get footbeds. You're hauling serious weight around on skis, not to mention the weight of the boots, and your feet need something to support your arches and keep the ankles in line.
Yeah, I guess I mentioned in my original post last season that we tried fitting a flat soled Luxury liner with footbeds. They were way too tight, too thick, didn't work. I was suggesting maybe something like a flat soled PLUG liner (thinner 9mm material) may work better for low volume booters wanting to use footbeds and this is an item I believe they don't produce.
On a side note, correct me if I'm wrong, tried some Il Moros and Full Tilts the other day, and none of them are coming with footbeds, salespeople promoting the Intuition no footbed approach:rolleyes2
Well shit ... here I am all happy that the fine folks at Intuition sent me some Luxury liners to swap out with my stock ones that came with the Typhoons, and then I read about the foot bed issue.
I use footbeds so now I don't know WTF to do ... the Luxury liners they sent definitely have a noticeably thicker sole to them when compared to the stock version.
I'm no stranger to tight boots, and actually wanted to swap because the stock liners didn't seem like they'd take up enough of the rather voluminousness box-like Typhoon shell, but the foot bed issue might take precedence.
Yo Eddy, didn't mean to freak you out, haha. If you read some of the other Intuition threads, I think many have had no issues putting footbeds in, especially if you have a volumous boot, may work out perfectly for you.
Cook them with footbeds. Most boots and intuitions do very well with footbeds, unless it is a super low volume boot. If they don't fit right, just recook them with out. They will take a few bakings without any problems.
here's how it went.
I arranged an appointment by email, no trouble at all.
I showed up with BD Factors. I explained that I primarily tour in them but also ski them at the resort a fair bit, as I often ski a few laps at the hill and then go into the slackcountry for a run or two. Rob (Mister Intuition) grabbed the luxury model liner without even a conversation.
I brought my footbeds, just in case. I said I didn't care if we used them or not, whatever he thought. He said if I was used to skiing with footbeds, we should use the footbeds.
We tried a few liner sizes, with and without footbeds. It was nice to have so many options to try. He said to go with what felt best without molding. FWIW, I ended up with a size 25 'low volume' liner in my 25.5 BD shells. The 26 scrunched my toes- I guess it was kind of stuffed into the shell. The 25, though shorter, made my toes happier. The 25 low volume felt just right. (Sorry if I sound like Goldilocks.)
I put on superthin nylon socks, toe caps, and another pair of said socks. Rob cooked the liners with one of those devices that blows hot air into the liner. He pulled the liners off the gizmo one at a time, shoved the footbed into the liner, and shoved the whole thing into my boot, and then I put the boot on. Nothing complicated. He tightened the boots up a lot- more than I do when I ski them. I stood there for a few minutes and then we were done.
Rob and Crystal were both very nice, very helpful, and very amusing. It's kind of funny to see the crazy office that they run intuition out of- boxes and liners all over the place. They are getting hooked up with a lot of big ski boot companies to provide stock liners, which is cool. Rob grew up in Creston, for the interest of other Kootenay-ites.
That's it.
YoEddy, you'll be fine in most instances cooking with footbeds.
awesome steve. I can'\t tell you how pleased Rob and Crystal are that so many people\s feet have felt the love of the Intuition liner. They're most definitely not corporate
I had multiple conversations with Rob and Crystal at Intuition this summer. They have been helpful and infinitely patient with me. In the end I couldn't pull the trigger on which liner/size to go with on my new down-sized boots. I ended up talking to the shop guy in Ketchum who does all of my fitting and does the boot work for most of our local heroes.
He's putting better skiers in the Comp model, shown below next to my Power Wrap from 2 seasons ago. As you see it's taller. It's also way thicker--fills in all those little pockets inside the shell. I was nervous to go with a thicker liner as I now have a performance shell fit, but after the baking I am stoked with the fit. Obviously haven't skied them yet.
Oh yeah, the Comp liner is supposedly "out of production". I don't know why, or if this is even true. Might be worth an email to Intuition. I paid $250 for the liners and baking.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1255308401
^^ Wow, your bootfitter really punches down & out the heel. Are you jumping in them or something during the process?
It does look a little messed up. No jumping. He does focus on getting the heel down in there good. I stand with toes on a board during cooling.
Huh, we use a 1" board but the heel pocket is fairly extreme on your boots indeed. Looks like your bootfitter uses an oven too and not the new internal blower, and a good dose of heat.
Just making inane observations.
What's neat is to see how much s t r e t c h you can get with Intuitions.
Last year I heavily used my MegaRides, and the OE liners are packed out quite badly now, and they didn't seem very high quality to begin with.
I am going to purchase some Intuition liners, but I get a great deal on the Scarpa branded units, not the Intuition name-only ones.
There are three liners available, one being the orange-toe Precision High Liner, which a wrap liner and is the one out of the Spirit 4, I believe. The next is the Speed Pro, a tongue liner with a green toe, and the last is the Universal, which looks like a "normal" Intuition liner.
Precision High:
http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/sho...rs-2008-TH.jpg
Speed Pro:
(sorry, no pic, but it's the liner that comes in the Typhoon)
Universal:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...TL._AA280_.jpg
It seems to me that the Typhoon/Speed-Pro is probably the stiffest of the liners, and as my MegaRides are primarily a touring/ski-mountaineering and moderate day-skiing boot, the Precision liner might best suit my needs. Opinions appreciated!
I emailed Intuition and they gave me some basic info on sizing, recommending that I use a 27.0 liner to replace my 26.0 liner in the 26.0/26.5 MegaRide Shell. Interesting. I am loathe to start out too large. The 26.0 Garmont liners were pretty snug to begin with and we cooked them to fit nicely, and they were great for a long time, but now are just plain sloppy. Intuition folks seem to really know their shit, so I'm leaning towards going with the 27.0 liners.
Thanks, again, to Lee for the kick ass OP.
I have 28.0 Intuitions (non-Scarpa branded) in 27.0 Zzeuses. The fit is good. Also, Scarpa sizing is weird (26.5 and 27.0 have the same shell). Finally, Intuitions can fit much more diverse shapes than other moldable liners.
john of genx, I'd get the Precision Highs if you want overlap or the Speed Pro if you want tongue (which I think is basically the Freeride .. ).
I've never had an overlap liner, so I'm not sure how they tour, but I know Lee Lau uses the overlap liner in his MegaRides, and has positive things to say about them for touring, so I might go that route.Quote:
Originally Posted by khyber.pass