Vibram sole on an Alpine boot – DIY

First of all thanks Marshal for the shells-the soles were beat but worked great for this project.

I used to resole Birkenstocks for the dirty hippies so I used a large belt sander in the shoe shop to grind the soles down. I already have AT boots and wanted as little trouble as possible with alpine bindings so I kept the soles flat vs. rockered. Vibram makes all sorts of soles so I got these which were pretty thin and that allowed me to keep the ISO 20 and 30 mm standards. After grinding the appropriate amount off the boot I used a 3M contact addhesive that seems to be holding up well. It's the same stuff used to resole Birkenstocks. You paint it on both surfaces and then heat it until it's shiney and then slap them together. I then ground off the excess sole so it looked good and was the original shape of the toe and heel. I bought some little screws and put those in just in case the glue fails. I have Sollies on my skis and the toe height is the same as my Beast shells and the length is the same. Here are some pics. I think the total amount was under $40...$20 for shipping for the shells, $18 for soles, and a couple bucks for the little screws.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1141238644


http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1141238644


http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1141238644


http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1141238644


http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1141238644

FUCK YEAH DUDE - they look awesome. well done.

Yo, way to go, Conundrum.
Tom came by and showed me the procedure on my boots and left me all the gear to do this. After my first good fall, first day of the season, with wrongly adjusted freerides for the retrofit, I tore a heel off and had to redo it. It has now stayed on very well. I'd offer to do retrofits for Tahoers, but have no time. I love the vibrams. Since I've been flipping in and out of demo bindings on the Bros, I have to carry a screwdriver because the extra height I gained tops out the adjustment screw on the toepieces. Dudele's advice to shave the tongue that goes into the toepiece sounds like a good adjustment.

Tom rules.

bump. The cobbler turned me on to a new glue: Freesole. I've done a couple of resoles with barge cement and wasn't to impressed. Urathane (sp?) based glue seems to be the key. This stuff is super burly and turned out really clean looking. They look like they are pro job not some hack like myself vibraming in his basement. I knew the glue had to be good, it warns that is can cause birth defects. You know you have the good stuff then.

Hi, what do you think abou it ?

http://walk-ez.com

Looks like it would work walking around town, but these guys are using these soles on some serious terrain.

I would not want to carry the extra weight, or risk having them fall off while skiing or climbing.

Bump. Thinking about doing this to my falcons. I won't be hiking in them so much in the near future, but the out soles are not replaceable. How do you keep the contour of the slight upturn in the toe and heel?
It seems like the bottom of this boot is pretty thin, will I have to take it down too much or can I get, say, 1/8th inch thick vibram soles.
This will allow me to walk all over the place in them and not have to worry. I probably won't even do it right now. Just a few questions.

If they are already pretty thin, just get them nice and smooth. I grind an ever so slight rocker on the front for a little walking ease. As far as sole thickness you can always adjust by grinding down the vibram after you have attached it to the sole. Get your glue (freesole=$$$$) and vibram from Carters boot shop in Bozo. those guys have been super helpful to me in the past. Good luck.

I have a pair of Garmont Adrenalines, but don't have the Vibram soles to go with these. I know I can order them from Garmont, but they are $70-$80. Could I just order vibram soles like the ones you guys are using here and cut them to fit my adrenalines? Or are the actual Garmont replacement soles on plastic plates, etc?

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Originally Posted by DEVO

I have a pair of Garmont Adrenalines, but don't have the Vibram soles to go with these. I know I can order them from Garmont, but they are $70-$80. Could I just order vibram soles like the ones you guys are using here and cut them to fit my adrenalines? Or are the actual Garmont replacement soles on plastic plates, etc?

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Order them from Garmont. There is a backer for the vibram you would have to make. If you tried to screw on just the vibram part without gluing it to either a backer or the boot, the vibram sole won't stay on. I think it would be tough to get a homemade piece to fit well with the boot.

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Originally Posted by hick

If they are already pretty thin, just get them nice and smooth. I grind an ever so slight rocker on the front for a little walking ease. As far as sole thickness you can always adjust by grinding down the vibram after you have attached it to the sole. Get your glue (freesole=$$$$) and vibram from Carters boot shop in Bozo. those guys have been super helpful to me in the past. Good luck.

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I would grind the vibram down on the non tread side before you glue it on. ISO standard is 20mm for the toe and 30 for the heel. If you put rocker on, you will have to play with those numbers a bit. Just think vibram + plastic should equal roughly those figures.

If you grind after you glue, you are losing traction from the tread which is one the big reasons your doing it...at least that's why I've done it in the past.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Order them from Garmont. There is a backer for the vibram you would have to make. If you tried to screw on just the vibram part without gluing it to either a backer or the boot, the vibram sole won't stay on. I think it would be tough to get a homemade piece to fit well with the boot.

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I figured that.

Timely bump!

Thinking of vibraming a pair of older Atomic BetaRace 10.20, with the totally replaceable toe and heel "blocks". Just wondering is there are some such blocks already available from Atomic with a lugged sole ( I seem to remember there was such a boot for their freeride team) and, if yes, how are they?
Am I better off with a true Vibram though?

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

I would grind the vibram down on the non tread side before you glue it on. ISO standard is 20mm for the toe and 30 for the heel. If you put rocker on, you will have to play with those numbers a bit. Just think vibram + plastic should equal roughly those figures.

If you grind after you glue, you are losing traction from the tread which is one the big reasons your doing it...at least that's why I've done it in the past.

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Thanks for those numbers on the iso standard. The vibrab I have had access to is pretty thick shit on the tread side, so I'm forced to grind that side. Still plenty of traction left on the toe. I'm also only using these on Salomons or in my wifes case (and others I have done them for), Fritchis. Adjustable toe height is key for my hack vibram jobs. I'm curious what mine measure now. I've just been eyeballing that shit.:wink:

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Originally Posted by BrunoOya

Hi, what do you think abou it ?

http://walk-ez.com

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Fuck you, dude.
Salomon bindings also have adjustable toe height.

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Originally Posted by hick

If they are already pretty thin, just get them nice and smooth. I grind an ever so slight rocker on the front for a little walking ease. As far as sole thickness you can always adjust by grinding down the vibram after you have attached it to the sole. Get your glue (freesole=$$$$) and vibram from Carters boot shop in Bozo. those guys have been super helpful to me in the past. Good luck.

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Where is Carters? (street/intersection) They have done this type of thing before?
Sometimes I'm not the most handy person in the world (sometimes?), anyone in BZN wanna do it for me for some beer money?

Carter's is next to Barrel Mountaineering and Mckenzie River Pizza on Main st.
They don't vibram the ski boots (although I'm sure they would if you wanted them to), but have been very helpful as far as tips on proper glue to use and they usually have vibram in stock for 20 bucks for a pair, I can't remember what the glue costs (maybe 8?). The process is a little more involved time wise than being worth just beer money (unless you're talking about a keg :wink:).

If you look at a falcon boot, the toe and heel lugs stick down just slightly lower than the middle. I was thinking of measuring the exact thickness, grinding it down even and smooth, and adding the vibram to the toe and heel where the lugs were, grinding first till it was the same thickness of what I took away. This would seem to work, but it's only about 1/8 of an inch.
Important people need their questions answered, so bump to the top. I don't wanna have to get YakTrax.

^^^^well?

I have been wanting to do this for a while and finally found the right pair of boots. I picked up these flexons from AfroMullet, dropped in some g-fits that I already had, stole the sweet purple powerstraps from an old pair of Denalis, and picked up the vibrams + glue at the local shoe repair shop.

I ground the boots down to be within the 30/20mm ISO standard taking into account the thickness of the vibrams. However, I still needed to grind more after the glueing to get the toepiece to fit properly and eject smoothly - the toe was getting stuck about halfway out (using px12s to test), which made my knees cringe a little.

Also, after a few days of use I have to report that the glue is working very well. Based upon the advice of the shoe shop, I coated the plastic (boot) with superglue first and let that dry for 24hrs. Then I used Barge to glue the vibram to the superglue surface. I later went back with Goop and filled in any gaps I could see between the sole and boot. Finally, I added brass screws here and there (I probably went a little overboard and added unnecessary weight).

I am stoked about the result - thanks for the suggestions in this thread.

Pics...

http://www.pfnco.com/old/picture_library/bv/flex2.jpg

I've never felt so manly wearing bright colors.

http://www.pfnco.com/old/picture_library/bv/flex1.jpg

I decided to give this a try as well- I wanted stiff boots with vibram soles for patrol work and didn't really care about walk mode or a rockered sole. I loved the way alpine boots skied compared to my G-rides but hated walking around on plastic soles. I'm using them in Freerides and Barons so I don't have any worries about the release issues that come with rubber soles.
I decided not to rocker the sole, just keep it flat and at DIN height for simplicity.
I found a pair of Technica Explosion Ultras in great shape at the local thrift store. Vibram soles are $20+ at a boot shop, so I found a pair of used hiking boots with a decent vibram sole to be a donor at the same thrift store and pirated them instead of buying new.
The Explosions had removeable sole blocks and a layer of rubber to reduce vibration, which I took off. I made some measurements to get an idea of how much material to remove for the thickness of the rubber I was adding, then ground down the boot with a combination of hand tools and a belt sander. The boots had a strange adjustable arch mechanism inside the sole, so I made some adjustments for it that are visible in the pictures.
Conundrum recommended I use a 3M adhesive contact adhesive which I got at a local shoe shop that does resoling.
Once I was satisfied that the soles were ground down far enough and flat, I cut the rubber to roughly fit and screwed it to the boot so I would have screw holes to line it up with once I had applied the glue, and the screws would act as clamps while the glue dried. I used the screws that originally held the removable sole blocks in place. I also used a variety of straps and pliers to clamp the sole in place. I left each boot clamped overnight. Once I felt confident about the glue being dry I trimmed the sole with a razor knife.
The pictures of the finished product are after two weeks of daily use, and they are holding up pretty well. I don't think the boot has lost any stiffness or strength from having plastic removed, and the sole is really nice for walking, scrambling on rock, climbing ladders, snow machines and so on. The toe has peeled a little bit, but the screws aren't letting it go any further. The Scarpa liner with the soccer shin guard mod is significantly lighter than the stock liners, so they weigh just under five pounds each.

Cost:
Boots $10
Rubber $5
Scarpa liner $2 (also thrift store)
Glue $5


Time: A lot longer than I expected but worth it.

Did you screw into the holes that were there for the changeable toe and heel pieces?

I did this on my boots with Idris as my instructor. I think I probably posted this somewhere else in this thread. He sliced the sole off the boot and we were faced with those hollow spots, but went ahead with the hot shoe glue vibram attachment and no screws. Other than adding too much height (I topped out both Salomon and Freeride toepiece adjustments), it worked just fine. I sanded the vibram down until they fit in bindings.

The only problem I had was when the heel vibram pulled away from the plastic of the shell. There's not a lot in those hollow heels to glue it to with all those voids. I just poured a bunch of fiberglass resin in there and clamped it for a few days and all was fine.

Here's my second attempt on a pair of Flexons.

http://www.warringtonbears.org.uk/inserts/med_1234.jpg

I used some 6mm nora® Lunasoft Mini Non Slip EVA as the soling material. I avoided conventional Vibram as it is too thick. Checking my boots against ISO9523-1990 I found I had only 6mm of height to spare on the heels - unless I carefully ground away the plastic on the top of the lug.

I fixed it to the boot using Dow Corning 3145 RTV high-strength silicone. First time, I used a load of pebbles inside the boot to hold it down but this time I made a clamp from bits of timber:

http://www.warringtonbears.org.uk/inserts/med_1243.jpg

It's pretty interesting that since this thread was started a number of heavier, stiffer alpine-like AT boots have become available. I think that the market actually listened to the consumer on this one...

this is sweet, pumped to see more people doing this. i (well my shop did all the work i just sat there like a giddy little school girl!) just did this to my lange plug boots...took the vibram soles off of the lang banshee pro...that way the AFD still releases properly. and word on the street is lange is coming out with vibram lifters next year to make this way easier - there was a little bit of grinding to be done to make my setup work.

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Originally Posted by SkiFreak85353

this is sweet, pumped to see more people doing this. i (well my shop did all the work i just sat there like a giddy little school girl!) just did this to my lange plug boots...took the vibram soles off of the lang banshee pro...that way the AFD still releases properly. and word on the street is lange is coming out with vibram lifters next year to make this way easier - there was a little bit of grinding to be done to make my setup work.

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Yeah, my roomate did the same for me to my atomic plugs. Just grind all the nubs off the Lange/Rossi vibram soles and screw em straight to the planed bottom of the boots, no glue needed... Killer for scrambling and sledding.

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Originally Posted by Dromond

It's pretty interesting that since this thread was started a number of heavier, stiffer alpine-like AT boots have become available. I think that the market actually listened to the consumer on this one...

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I wonder when Dalbello will wake up..

My Mark II's above were not a success - principally due to the height of the heel.

Alpine boots are bound by ISO 5355 which specifies a heel height of 30mm +/- 1mm. Touring boots are bound by ISO 9523 which specifies a heel height of 32mm +/- 3mm. In order to maintain strength and allow the possibility of adding Dynafit inserts I only gave the boot sole a very light sanding. After I fitted the 6mm Lunasoft soling the heel height came to exactly 35mm - high, but just within the spec for touring boots. However, when we came to try them with the Freerides they kept popping out. This was because the binding simply cannot cope properly with this heel height.

On to Mark III's!

This time I took the soles down until the circles just disappeared. This also helped to take out the slight upwards bow in the sole surface which, I guess, is produced by the boot shrinking after it is moulded.

http://www.warringtonbears.org.uk/boots/med_1276.jpg

Then I used 6mm Lunasoft to sole the heel and 10mm on the toe. To provide some rocker I sanded the smooth side down to 4mm at the front and 7mm at the back. To achieve this accurately I nailed the rubber to a piece of timber. The two nails marked the inside edge of the chamfer and two wood screws set the depth at the outside. I just kept sanding away on the bench sander until I heard the scraping of metal. The next photo shows how I used some hard 1mm EVA sheet to create the right shape for the clamp. This time I used Renia Ortec contact adhesive and clamped the sole for at least 24 hours. This worked very well.

http://www.warringtonbears.org.uk/boots/med_1291.jpg

The result looks good in a Freeride binding. And it works well too: we have just returned from a 5-day tour of the Vanoise and the boots held up fine.

http://www.warringtonbears.org.uk/boots/med_1278.jpg

that is awesome.
Do you some supply of old flexons or something?

At least here in the UK, old Flexons tend to be very cheap on eBay - presumably because they just look so weird. I'll pick up any that are going really cheap just to get the spare parts but keep an eye out for those that are the right size, especially ones that have moulded liners. Shells of the wrong size can always be used for experimental surgery ;)

http://www.warringtonbears.org.uk/boots/med_1297.jpg

http://www.warringtonbears.org.uk/boots/med_1313.jpg

I love glue!