I got KICKED OUT of the 36 hours of Keystone!

I think if we applied the police oppositional/ compliance flow chart bullshit thingy we would clearly see that you should have been tasered several times.

I get why it pisses you off but it seems like a waste of energy to me.

Summit has a lot of energy and very little free time to waste it.

Man, that sounds retarded. Nice comeback with the "heil" punchline

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Originally Posted by Summit

Night skiing is fun! I had a lot of fun last night until it got overcrowded, icy, and crashy.

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No it isn't. And this thread proves it.

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Originally Posted by Samwich

We have a big concert on the last day of classes every year at UBC called Arts County Fair. It's always a complete shit show, and everyone's wasted. Of course, they pat you down at the door to make sure you don't have booze or weed or anything. There's cheap beer inside, so it's kind of pointless to bring booze, but people still try. Last year, some security guard woman started patting me down without warning. I didn't really take offense, I was more just surprised. I thought the best reaction was to start patting her down. She wasn't very pleased, and asked me what the hell I thought I was doing. I told her I was "just easin' the tension baby, just easin' the tension." She just laughed and stopped patting me down and let me in.

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I like that approach especially since it's a she. If they aren't going to warn you or ask permission or anything I'm not sure how they could expect anything but you to react in kind.

This seems like one of those situations where both sides could have done things better. Seems to be to be based on the concept of "do you want to be right, or do you want to be affective?" The keystone people shouldn't have searched you the way they did, but had not taking on the "i protest authority" type attitude then things would have been different.

good god are you a fucking tool. you continually present yourself as a moron of the highest order. congrats on that big guy. i know you're in summit county but you really need to get laid. big fucking deal if they want to search you. do you go to concerts and bitch like a whiny little kid when they search you there as well???? you bitch about people being drunk and then bitch about them searching for alcohol at the same time. thanx for sharing:nonono2:

night skiing is not fun, its usually cold, icy, crowded and dangerous. its just a gimmick. groomers suck anyway.

being from minnesota, 90% of the riding i have done in the past before moving to colorado has been at night. All shittay

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Originally Posted by Summit

1. This was NOT private land. This was public land. It's USFS land, not Disneyland or a bar or a concert. So why should I be searched to be outside?

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Sorry about the rest of it, but I am so tired of people saying this. Yes, it is public land in the sense that the government owns it. But it is LEASED to Keystone, so they may treat it like their land. Would you be ok with your landlord walking into your apartment at any time of the day, saying he owns the land and can do what he wants? No, because you signed a lease whihc gives you the right of possession, which means for most purposes (not all), you can treat the land as yours and actually exclude the landlord. Keystone has a right of possession, and can treat the land as its own. Get over it, stop screaming about "public land" and go to the backcountry if you don't like it.

I am not condoning the rest of what happened, but you had no special rights because the federal government happens to own the land in question.

To further Danno's point, you were not admitted to the lifts because you refused the search. The lifts are not at all publicly owned or operated.

It is an interesting policy. If I get this right, it is okay to drink at the bar and ski drunk, but it is not okay to bring and drink alcohol on the hill, whether you are drunk or not.

Sounds to me like they just want you to drink at the bar so they can make the profit. Kind of like bringing a coke into the movie theater. None of them allow it, but you can buy a $3 coke once inside.

I've dealt w/ ski patrol there twice, both times they have sucked ass. The second one they had my wife, who had a blown acl spiral tib fib fractue and dislocated her ankle by an inch CLIMB into a FUCKING cat on her own. At least I know my wife is tough.

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Originally Posted by hutash

It is an interesting policy. If I get this right, it is okay to drink at the bar and ski drunk, but it is not okay to bring and drink alcohol on the hill, whether you are drunk or not.

Sounds to me like they just want you to drink at the bar so they can make the profit. Kind of like bringing a coke into the movie theater. None of them allow it, but you can buy a $3 coke once inside.

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that is exactly correct. Bars don't let you bring in alcohol, yet they let you drink alcohol and be drunk from alcohol, so long as you purchase it from them. You may not like it, but nobody is forcing you to go to the bar in the first place. If you want to go to the bar, a private place, as part of the "contract" for using the place, you buy the alcohol from them. Keystone is no different.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Sorry about the rest of it, but I am so tired of people saying this. Yes, it is public land in the sense that the government owns it. But it is LEASED to Keystone, so they may treat it like their land. Would you be ok with your landlord walking into your apartment at any time of the day, saying he owns the land and can do what he wants? No, because you signed a lease whihc gives you the right of possession, which means for most purposes (not all), you can treat the land as yours and actually exclude the landlord. Keystone has a right of possession, and can treat the land as its own. Get over it, stop screaming about "public land" and go to the backcountry if you don't like it.

I am not condoning the rest of what happened, but you had no special rights because the federal government happens to own the land in question.

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I see you point, however all leases have terms. I don't have total authority over a property I rented. Just as I may not renovate a rented apartment without permission, a ski resort may not cut a new slope without permission. Virtually any rental agreement allows that landlord to come on the premises with proper forewarning of the renter. Similarly, I can skin up a resort on public land for free with a some exceptions. Similarly, a resort on public land must allow for "reasonable access" to surrounding nonleased public lands.

Does the Federal lease include provisions allowing searches by contracted private entities? I'd be surprised if it specifically allowed for it. Do the parts of the lease disallowing discriminatory or preferential access prevent something like this? I don't know.

Legality aside, I do know that as a long time customer I don't approve and I let that be known to the person responsible for the failed policy.

Searched before skiing ...
Gives a new meaning to the old joke "where's the mountain ?"
- Replaced by Disney Land.
(Even if they don't search you at Disney Land).

Now, I hate to say it, but the nazi comparison thing is rather distastefull...

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Originally Posted by joe4186

skiing is not fun, its usually cold, icy, crowded and dangerous. its just a gimmick. groomers suck anyway.

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True Dat, Yo!

Night skiing: If you get an empty night on the mountain and have long carving sticks with sharp edges, you can have a fun time going really fast on skis when you would otherwise be sitting in the bar or on your couch. I still maintain night skiing is fun, especially if you had to work during the day.

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Originally Posted by Danno

that is exactly correct. Bars don't let you bring in alcohol, yet they let you drink alcohol and be drunk from alcohol, so long as you purchase it from them. You may not like it, but nobody is forcing you to go to the bar in the first place. If you want to go to the bar, a private place, as part of the "contract" for using the place, you buy the alcohol from them. Keystone is no different.

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This analogy fails again. There was no alcohol served at the Summit House (on top of the mountain) after 4PM. Again, you have to get drunk at the base and Keystone didn't care if you did it in the parking lot as lots of people did.

Keystone is not a bar. Keystone is a ski hill. Would you object if Keystone didn't allow any outside ski equipment and forced you to rent from their shop? Probably.

It is also worth noting that the one and only pat down check point was 1000+ feet inside the barriers that had "no outside alcohol beyond this point" signs. They weren't searching people entering the village "event area", only the people crossing the bridge going to the lifts.

Bars and concerts encourage people to drink. Keystone wished to prevent drunk skiers. I was there to ski, not to drink, but Keystone's policy to prevent drunk skiers was simply to search EVERYONE for unconsumed alcohol. That policy was invasive and it failed at its purpose. They hassled people for no useful purpose.

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Originally Posted by hutash

It is an interesting policy. If I get this right, it is okay to drink at the bar and ski drunk, but it is not okay to bring and drink alcohol on the hill, whether you are drunk or not.

Sounds to me like they just want you to drink at the bar so they can make the profit. Kind of like bringing a coke into the movie theater. None of them allow it, but you can buy a $3 coke once inside.

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Rode the lifts today with a high ranking Keystone employee, who informed me that:

(1) This is the last year of 36 hours due to window breaking, incredible injury numbers, and extreme risk for the resort.

(2) The suco sheriffs, who were on the hill in force yesterday, can arrest you and suspend your drivers license if you are found skiing under the influence (see bode). Thus, even if one was to get drunk at _____ bar at River Run, he/she could still get in some serious shit.

(3) Ski patrol had to use alternative measures to cart people off the hill during the overnight hours due to all sleds being used.


PS - It's finally nuking down here: 3 inches in the past 2 hours

Night skiing is fun in the backcountry. Strap on a bike light to the helmet, good tune selection, cold night air, darkness, and not a soul around...just make sure you've reconned the area in daylight:D

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Originally Posted by philippeR

Searched before skiing ...
Gives a new meaning to the old joke "where's the moutain ?"
- Replaced by Disney Land.
(Even if they don't search you at Disney Land).

Now, I hate to say it, but all the nazi comparison thing is rather distastefull...

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disneyland just checks your fingerprints at the turnstiles now.

don't be too upset about the nazi comparisons. that's all americans have to hang their hats on (bush family excepted) to keep from facing themselves. it just goes to show how effective propaganda is.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Night skiing: If you get an empty night on the mountain and have long carving sticks with sharp edges, you can have a fun time going really fast on skis when you would otherwise be sitting in the bar or on your couch. I still maintain night skiing is fun, especially if you had to work during the day.



This analogy fails again. There was no alcohol served at the Summit House (on top of the mountain) after 4PM. Again, you have to get drunk at the base and Keystone didn't care if you did it in the parking lot as lots of people did.

Keystone is not a bar. Keystone is a ski hill. Would you object if Keystone didn't allow any outside ski equipment and forced you to rent from their shop? Probably.

It is also worth noting that the one and only pat down check point was 1000+ feet inside the barriers that had "no outside alcohol beyond this point" signs. They weren't searching people entering the village "event area", only the people crossing the bridge going to the lifts.

Bars and concerts encourage people to drink. Keystone wished to prevent drunk skiers. I was there to ski, not to drink, but Keystone's policy to prevent drunk skiers was simply to search EVERYONE for unconsumed alcohol. That policy was invasive and it failed at its purpose. They hassled people for no useful purpose.

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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!! !!

WAH WAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Heh--I was just thinking of Summit and instead an image of a salmon came to mind. ;)

Keystone owns the land at the bottom of the Gondooby, Not USFS

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Originally Posted by Summit

1. This was NOT private land. This was public land. It's USFS land, not Disneyland or a bar or a concert. So why should I be searched to be outside?
2. Their invasive policy completely failed in its purpose of stopping drunk skiers.



So after your guffawing at my actions, you admit that you would throw a fit about being searched if you were trying to sneak through and break the rules, but not on the principle that you don't like private companies searching your person in order to be outside?

Does your hypocrisy know no bounds, sir?



Right... they were afraid the terrorists were going to attack Keystone. That's why they had civilian event employees looking for and confiscating alcohol and drugs (or turning them back and hotlisting their passes). I didn't realize Osama was going after ski resorts. I guess that would have explained the metal detectors and x-ray machines. Oh wait... :nonono2::nonono2::nonono2:



But maybe you are OK with any random stranger touching you all over. Maybe you'll let me search you?

If you don't have a problem with being searched anytime you go anywhere, then you probably don't have a problem with the NSA reading your emails, the FBI tapping your phones, or being pulled over by the police for no reason other than to make sure you aren't doing anything naughty. It is all in the same vein.

As for what battles I fight... I am not out to fight "the man." I've never been to a protest, much less ever been arrested in my life. However, I do choose to object if the ski hill I live at and have skied for 24 years puts in place a policy that I find harassing and I strongly disagree with. Why would you have a problem with that?

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I think Keystone has a right to try to make things safe at 36 hrs - c'mon. I saw the notice and thought drunk skiing for 24 hr.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Maybe you'll let me search you?

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I don't wanna sound queer or nothin, but... OK

What did you expect?

Are you the same guy that has fit about airport security too and complains for having to take your shoes off? It's 5 seconds and youre on your way. Way to stand up for your rights!

I respect your actions Summit. That fucking place was a shitshow. We ended up crossing the creek by the Bug Lot trying to avoid the pat down line. They even had people on the other side of the creek checking people for shit... thankfully there weren't cops in the woods hiding with tasers ready to fire.

EDIT - While I respect your actions, I think they were a bit uncalled for. You probably came off a a total fucking prick, and they kicked you out rightfully. I would have done the same if you acted like that to me as an employee.

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Originally Posted by Danno

But it is LEASED to Keystone, so they may treat it like their land. Would you be ok with your landlord walking into your apartment at any time of the day, saying he owns the land and can do what he wants? No, because you signed a lease whihc gives you the right of possession, which means for most purposes (not all), you can treat the land as yours and actually exclude the landlord. Keystone has a right of possession, and can treat the land as its own.

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Since when did the USFS leases to ski areas give them the rights of possession?
Not all leases do. I was under the impression that most of the FS agreements were for control and use, not possession.

I'm not saying this means that searches at "events" aren't legal on this land, I'm saying you are likely wrong saying the ski areas have rights of possession to those lands. Our ever-helpful government hasn't provided a very easy way of finding these documents online however.

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Originally Posted by Garrett

Since when did the USFS leases to ski areas give them the rights of possession?
Not all leases do. I was under the impression that most of the FS agreements were for control and use, not possession.

I'm not saying this means that searches at "events" aren't legal on this land, I'm saying you are likely wrong saying the ski areas have rights of possession to those lands. Our ever-helpful government hasn't provided a very easy way of finding these documents online however.

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who gives a fuck

I am not flaming, but how little attention were you paying? I find it hard to believe you didn't know what you were in for. I understand you points of not being touched without permission, but i find it hard to believe that you didn't see it coming, considering you live out there. It was on the news here in denver as well, probably in the papers too.

i was at the stoned last night. We had some dinner, went down and saw a massive line with a woman directing people traffic, saying that you were going to get searched.

You said you "heard the rumors of pat downs".

you didn't see the yellow jacketed goons patting down those in front of you in line?

Every one in the village was talking about it.

that being said, i am glad that i just got drunk and didn't ski. wonderful that you had an extra pass to still go get some turns in.

If you feel so strongly about being wronged, i would make arrangements to get that red flag taken off your pass. As you are an upstanding citizen and probably one of the 10 people that wasn't any bit intoxicated on the slopes yesterday.

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Originally Posted by mitch_cumstein

who gives a fuck

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Who is this who, and why does he give a fuck? You meant to make that a question, eh?

If you spend time, say, skinning at ski areas after they close, or hiking them in the summer, the terms of such a thing might be worth knowing.

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Originally Posted by joe4186

night skiing is not fun, its usually cold, icy, crowded and dangerous. its just a gimmick. groomers suck anyway.

being from minnesota, 90% of the riding i have done in the past before moving to colorado has been at night. All shittay

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Wow, that does sould like it sucks.

At Stevens Pass, they run night skiing until 10pm five nights a week. I've had some really DUMB pow nights after hours. Even better is that you can work for the mountain, get your hours and still have plenty of time for turns.

Hmm drinking whilst skiing...


What would Bode do?

SUE KEYSTONE! ;)

Ski resorts on USFS land don't LEASE the area, at least none that I have heard of.

They receive a PERMIT to operate on federal land.

as an aside, Summit, you should recreate this confrontation at the airport next time they try to search you.

I volunteer sometimes for gate security at football games as a benefit to an organization I'm part of. Same shit, but we aren't ever allowed to touch anybody. Its a great way to tell who the dicks are because dicks treat people who they perceive as being beneath them like shit.

I do think that searching people to ski Keystone is bullshit and I don't have a problem with you taking up the issue with the person who made the rule. As for the yellow coats, there probably skiers just like you trying make there way through life. Being a dick to them is a dickless move. I can't tell if you were a dick to them or not from your post, but it sounds like you exercised your constitutional rights by walking away from the search and that you were allowed to so = I don't see what the big problem is.

You should have just kept your mouth shut, found another way in, and called the COO in the morning.

I know Pat Campbell and am surprised about your description of her. Nazi? She is a sweetheart.

Perhaps she was at the end of her rope from spending hours spent enforcing an unpopular policy on entitled, belligerent locals who believe that buying a $300 season pass for chairlift rides means that you will be treated like a member of a country club?

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Originally Posted by Hutch

I know Pat Campbell and am surprised about your description of her. Nazi? She is a sweetheart.

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Or perhaps Summit was the complete asshole as he described himself to be and she responded accordingly after first trying to appease him. The quoted interaction with Pat he has in the original post indicates she was being polite and trying to calm him down.

Why so many are sucking Summit's dick in this thread is beyond me.

By his own words from the original post: "could the rumors of pat downs be true?"

He knew it was coming and chose to act like a dick. :fuckyou: