AFAIK, the Axium only goes to DIN 10, so that'd be one reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
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AFAIK, the Axium only goes to DIN 10, so that'd be one reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
FWIW, I need only 7.5 DIN and drilled Z10s on my lotus 138. So far, they have been really fine. And the weight is simply amazing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
I think there's a version of the Axium that goes to DIN 12 too, though the DIN 10 version is much more common.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad
FYI: the Look Nova 10s (that were on backcountry.com's clearance awhile back) have a different AFD on the toepiece vs. the Pivot/ Pivot2 AFD. The Nova AFD is a non-moving piece of teflon, like the P18/FKS. I remember Mrs. C. having a set of Look Nova bindings on another ski that had the regular spring-loaded moving AFD like the Pivot. No idea why they changed, or if both AFDs are available throughout the Nova/Axium line.
I've been on the PX all year and they are as good as any Solly binding I've been on. Same elastic toe as all other looks and a basic step in heel (with more elasticity than solly). I haven't pre-released once all season....The PX is definitely not a POS IMHOQuote:
Originally Posted by ulty_guy
Acccctually...the P series don't have much elastic travel in the toe at all, hence the pivot heel, that's where it's elastic travel comes from. The PX have the same amount of elastic travel, but it is all in the toe, completely opposite of the P series and the FKS.Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman
I had the Z12's mounted on my Sugar Daddies and I love them! They're ridiculously light and solid, and not to hard to get back into after you eat it in the powder.
interesting... what is your source for this information?Quote:
Originally Posted by arem86
Ah shit, I guess I should've put that I got this info from reading online, not from a rep or anything...Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
Here's the quote from skimasterflex, replying to this statement:
And he says:Quote:
"the turntables don't do shit, why does nobody realize that?"
Quote:
"People feel as though they are torsionally softer and less rigid feeling on landings, especially on missed spins that have to be overcorrected in the landing. The give in the heel doesn't really matter so much though because elasticity and the feeling of it is relative to overall elasticity meaning that the toe is as big or bigger a factor as that is where most of the elasticity comes from in the old P10/12/14. The Race series is a different story and there is very little elasticity in the metal p18 toe hence all the elasticity in the 180 degree turntable heel of old. As far as the PX is concerned it is simply the opposite with all of the elasticity in the toe. The PX toe elasticity is actually as much as the P toe and heel combined, something thay look accomplished by reversing the torsion bars in the heel and increasing foward pressure dramatically. Along with increasing the thickness of the toe that allows for way more elasticity in either direction in the toe to compensate for all of the elasticity lost by the new heelpiece. There actually is no difference in elasticity between P and PX and Race. They are just all acomplished differently. If this lends to different feeling landings for different people than there you have it, they Do do shit. The end."
Sorry for the claim, is this info correct? Or did I just 1-up my JONG rating?
No, it isn't correct. The P and PX toepiece are the same. It has more elastic travel than any other toepiece.Quote:
Originally Posted by arem86
Rossi Axiums come in DIN 10, 11, and 12 versions, though the 12 is pretty rare:
http://www.rossignol.com/NO_prod_alp...i_acti_ax.html
Then why the change to the PX heel? If the elastic travel didn't change, and the way the travel is made didn't change...why'd they go and screw us out of the P series...and now the turntable heel as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
I think the decision was mainly economic. The PX is supposed to provide more forward pressure as well. I loved the turntable, but the PX is still a nice binding...
Just in my very unscientific experiance the PX is an ok binding but doesn't have the same feel as the P series. My park skis have p12 jibs while the pow skis have pX12ti's, the PX feels stiffer but a couple of times I have walked out of it. Both times it happend in the same way, super quick turn to avoid something I didn't see, like a tree and on the next weight shift were I may get a little squirly the ski goes bye bye. It has only happened twice but I am pretty confident the p12's would have kept me in. As long as they are still around for 100 bucks I'm not looking anywhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman
I'm sure it was economics. The Pivot heel is completely different than any other heel, including the P18. The PX heel shares the track and forward pressure mechanism with all their other bindings.
Also don't forget the problem with the Pivots where the heel plate bends and gets sloppy over time...they're a great binding but that interface could use a lot of work. The PX doesn't have that problem, but it's not as torsionally stiff to begin with. I'm not sure which is better or worse.
Lots of people here mounted freerides without the toe shim to get <5mm ramp. Why would so many people go after this possibly warranty negating mount if 5 mm didn't matter ?Quote:
Originally Posted by cooltsi
Do you care about the mounting point on skis ? Most people can see the difference of < 1 cm in mounting point compared to boot center. Now think about what 5 mm ramp change does to the effective mounting point. For an average 5'10" guy with average boot sole, this would change the COM point by more than 2 cm !
Boot fitters regularly put toe or heel shims in boots to correct fore/aft alignment. Most of these are in the 3 mm range and most good skiers can feel that. I can defintely feel 1 mm changes in fore aft and 0.5 degrees in lateral canting.
Again, I never said you can't ski with the wrong ramp for your body. Yes you can and you can ski in boots two sizes big and you can ski dee powder on 60 mm wide skis... but you are much better off being aligned fore/aft and lateral.
BTW there is a ton of scientific testing on this by a Canadian guy (Dave Mcphail I think), who put pressure sensors on skiers feets (while actually skiing) to understand the impact of ramp and forward lean on the human body responses. His results were very insightful: most people did best with total ramp of 3-4 degrees and total forward lean of 10-12 degrees. Guess what: almost all consumer boots today have way more forward lean and boot+ bindings have way more ramp. I have played around with this stuff quite a bit and now have settled on all bindings with zero ramp adn use boots (Krypton and Flexon) which can be made almost upright by removing shims. I am in a very neutral stance with bones stacked and can still get way forward when needed because of the soft progressive flex on these boots.
Try this stuff sometime. You may be amazed at the difference in your skiing (and your quads won't be on fire).
My family has put a number of Zs on different skis this year. One of the "kids" (6'2" and 205#) has been banging around on Sir Francis Bacons with Z12s w/ fat brake kit. Been running them at DIN 9.5. Some natural jumps, a little park, general free skiing... A few days ago he hit some cutup mank at speed and blew out. Guess what? When all was said and done, one of the notches in the heel track that holds the metal brake tab(s) had torn apart. And on closer inspection, part of the track near the middle had cracked/torn. Currently waiting on the replacement track...
Rumor (and it is just rumor) has it that they've seen a fair number of track failures of this general sort - but not a single consistent point of failure.
That said, the bindings are silly light and, with the exception of this track failure, have been well behaved for all of us. As noted above, they are very easy entry & they click in reliably. For the kind of skiing we do, we've found them unusually reliable in terms of the correct balance of retention and release. FWIW - skier weights in the family range from 145 to 205.
I'm not ready to write them off - but it'd be nice if Salomon beefed up that track somehow - even if it added a few grams...
You are wrong, my previously quoted statement is correct and I still stand by it. Hold up a P and a PX toe to your face and eat shit, they're different. Different materials and different thickness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
Mechanically their springs operate the same but the PX is way beefier and can handle more foward pressure because they are mostly made with either carbon infused plastics like the Z12 or metal. Why Look didn't pay the money to market them this way is beyond me but take a look at the 4-5 different 12 din PX versions, some of the Tis actually have a metal toe, and others are clearly the higher grade plastic with carbon. The Rossi Axial 2's are alomst all the cheaper stuff and cost more, go figure.
The PX toe also moves further side to side than the P, take the springs out and you can measure this for yourself. Everything I was quoted by Arem as saying is true. The feeling of elasticity in bindings is relative to the flex/movement in the toe and heel. Bindings whose heels move change the feeling of landings and especially switch landings. The PX and P have the same overall elastic travel they are simply accomplished differently.
I just had the same shit happen basically this weekend on a pair of Z12's...Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift
I am here to say that the Z12 is piece of shit if you are an aggressive skier (i.e. hucking, skiing fast through rock gardens, and putting yourself into situations where if your bindings fail you, you'll get hurt).
i was in a pinch, needed skis in a hurry, these were the only bindings I could get on short notice. I new I'd be skiing them in a big-mountain competition but figured, 'screw it, they'll be crazy light, and I'll just crank 'em to 12 and I should be fine."
So that's what I did, and I basically destroyed them in 3 days of skiing. Literally 3 days. I don't know when the heck i cracked the heel pieces (the base plate dealio around the mounting screws), but I was skiing about Mach 10 down a wide open groomer warming up for Saturday's KW Comp Finals, when in the middle of a turn I literally felt both heels just 'let go' of my boots. It wasn't a typical release, but all of a sudden my heels were free and the tails washed right out.
after I collected my shit, I realized BOTH heelpieces were cracked and they were all torqued and twisted. i could still barely get into one binding (but not the other) so gingerly skied down on one ski.
thank GOD these didn't fail during my earlier inspection run, or during my actual comp run in the Cirque.
So FUCK Z12's. they only lasted 3 hard charging ski days for me 175-180 lb frame. Nothing but 916's/920's or P18's/Rossi 185's from here on out for me.
Yep, same issue with two of three of my pairs (the cracking part). My fault as well, I had this prob with the 912s but wanted the weight savings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
Now I'm just waiting for my SHT's STL's or SNL's, whatever they're calling that new freestyle binding with the worm-drive heel.
The verdict is in. If you can't break your Z12's you ski like a fucking pussy! I'm gonna go break mine if they'll replace them with some STNs or whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
Point 1- Users of the P series bindings like them because of the short mounting point. You get a relatively light weight binding with an 8-18 din and a smaller flat spot for a rounder flexing ski.
I believe the world cup athletes like the longer mounting track of the PX because it increases transmission of edge pressure, especially from the boot rearward.
Point 2- The Z12, much like the 912 Ti before it, is meant for intermediate skiers or aggressive skiers under 150 lbs. Just compare it to a 957, 977, 997, P 18, 916, Marker 18 or 20 (!) and you will see what I mean. I'm sorry to say that more metal means a sturdier and longer lasting binding.
Point 3- What is with the ski/binding weight obsession here? This isn't the hardcore ski mountaineering site. When you are skiing, each turn leads to the next by the flexing and rebounding of the ski. When I hear people say that a ski feels "heavy" I hear "I can't flex this ski" It is a gravity sport after all.
That is all.
Salomon calling their binders Z series? Hahah, maybe trying to throw people off thinking they are Look? Yes. Seriously I've seen people step out on solly's cranked to Din 15, seriously you need your fucking head checked if you bull sollys.
Weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal King
Witto Wrasco King got a tummy ache today?
Figure I should contribute my personal experience:
Well, it's just that. I don't personally own a pair of Z series Salomons but my good friend who I ride with almost everytime has them on his Karmas.
First impression when he showed up with these things mounted up: Holy F^&K these are light! My next realization and this came quick: Wow, these things feel and look even cheaper than my S912s. Is that even possible? Well yes, they feel like toys and they have the horrible fake plastic chrome on them. Now I know this all probably sounds a little fruity and I know the way a binding looks and feels is not important at all and performance and safety are most important, but come on Salomon! How can you go from a ninja 916 to this? Let's just say If I was in a shop, looking for bindings the apparent crappy build quality would be enough to steer me away from these things add to that the steep 200+ price tag and those SAC p12s that I am familiar and comfortable with for 100 sound really damn convincing.
My friend who bought these is quite small, probably around 5'5 and all of a buck thirty weight. Despite his size though, he does ski the mountain very aggresively and much harder than someone of his size. When he showed up with these unfamiliar to me binders I was already pretty confident that they were gonna bust on him but I kept my mouth shut as he paid good money for his setup. I was confident at this point that if I had a pair of these on my skis I could break them in a week without trying. Not even being cocky.
Long story short we were just going through the park real quick on an end of the day lap so we could get down to the base. Not doing anything crazy! He fell off probably a 2 foot high rail and I saw something fly through the air and make a nice big arc before it settled on the snow in front of me. Sure enough toe wing sheared right off! I could believe it but, I mean I really couldn't believe it. These bindings had all of 2-3 days early season use on them and they broke on a pussy fall.
The shop replaced the toepiece immediately so no real brain damage here. Oh wait, actually shortly after my friend bailed on a backflip and smacked his head. Ended up getting brain surgery so his season was over and alas I can't give you a long term review! However, to sum this all up I wouldn't reccomend these bindings especially if you are a bigger guy, or even a smaller guy who rips. With some of the terrain I know you guys slay on a daily basis, I just don't see the point on trusting your life and safety on a pair of bindings that could break and leave you stranded in a bad environment or worse break and cause a preemptive bail that could result in a serious tumble. There are many other Great bindings on the market from other companies and Salomon alike.
Sorry for the huge rant guys! I just feltlike this could help someone who is having trouble binding shopping direct their hard earned dollars in the right direction.
Note to self - Lightweight bindings are for lightweights...
And now back to the Z12 bashing...
Just sayin....this is the least durable binding I've ever been on. They held me in fine, seemed laterally stiff at least, and they were great while they lasted, but um, they lasted less than 5 ski days until not one, but BOTH heel pieces shattered. I rarely if ever break skis much less a binding. If Solly were to make a stronger version, I'd take a look, but until then my opinion that these are steamy piles of shite stands. YMMV of course :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bossass