Uh, no, they were going to be back more than a day before any weather was projected to move in. Then someone got hurt. Then weather came sooner than projected. Many (most) of us might do the same?Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal's dead
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Uh, no, they were going to be back more than a day before any weather was projected to move in. Then someone got hurt. Then weather came sooner than projected. Many (most) of us might do the same?Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal's dead
From a cc.com posting by someone who knew them:Quote:
Originally Posted by ccwaskier
Sounds pretty experienced to me.Quote:
Kelly and Brian are very well-experienced and well equipped and level headed. They have summited Denali, Aconcagua, Huascuran, Rainier (14 times for Kelly), including Liberty Ridge this summer. They spend time regularly in Ouray ice-climbing.
yeah, we should totally nuke Texas, while we're at, we should nuke Mexico, too. Solve lots of problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal's dead
racism sucks
Texans are a race?
Edited out of respect for deceased, RIP.
Are Mexicans a race?Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
I'm not the best with words, I figured racism would get whatever small point I was trying to make across.
edit: I don't think statism was going to do the trick.
ummm, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by golden powder
Correct, but that doesn't stop some people from hating on them. What word am I looking for in this case?Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
Quit cunting this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by golden powder
+++Vibes
This is rediculous. What about the climber from New York? In your mind is he more or less stupid than the climbers from Texas?Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal's dead
These are experienced climbers making a winter attemp with at the time an adequate window for what they were planning as a one day push, with bivy gear if needed.
Here's hoping climbers and rescuers all return safely.
I wasn't saying they were inexperienced, i read the whole cc.com thread and it sounds like they have done quite a few challenging climbs, just saying that the news article equates buying things at rei with experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbd
Also interesting that the oregon news is using information and quotes from the cc.com thread in their news stories.
obviously it was not an adequate window. adequate is not the time it takes to do your business under ideal conditions. adequate is the time it takes to deal with all the things--minor and major--that can go wrong.
these guys left themselves almost no room on the backend. an injury would eat that up in no time and they surely knew that before they left.
perhaps if they had made it to the ranger station in time to get their parking permit before the station closed someone would have advised them against it. weather forecasts are nothing i would bet my life on, but even the short-term forecast when they started was looming dangerous.
there's not much of a window today.
these are the current observations at 6000 feet: http://www.nwac.us/~nwac/products/OSOMHM
(look ma, no cut and paste)
snowing and winds topping 70mph right now.
forecast for 9600 feet:
http://nimbo.wrh.noaa.gov/total_fore...lon=-121.70125
24 inches of snow expected tonight and tomorrow. another 18 inches thursday/night.
Tuesday, December 12, 2006
James' location pinpointed; break in weather needed
Searchers have pinpointed the whereabouts of Kelly James, the injured climber who sought refuge in a snow cave on Mount Hood last week, to within 500 meters of his actual location. James appears to be staying put, searchers said Tuesday.
Now searchers need the weather to cooperate so they can start combing the ground for his snow cave, which is believed to be at 10,300 feet of elevation.
Employees from T-Mobile USA, James' cell phone service provider,
say that they've frequently been "pinging" his phone to determine where he is and that he likely hasn't been moving.
James, 48, of Dallas, Texas, is one of three experienced climbers who headed out last Thursday to summit the mountain via the difficult Cooper Spur route. His companions -- Brian Hall, 37, also of Dallas, and Jerry "Nikko" Cooke, 36, of Brooklyn, New York -- continued down the mountain to get help after Kelly injured himself and are still missing.
Searchers are looking for Hall and Cooke at various areas of the mountain, including ZigZag Canyon on the chance that the pair got lost as they descended the mountain's fall line. The fall line bypasses Timberline Lodge, and following it has been a common mistake for other lost climbers in the past.
James called his family on Sunday and sounded disorganized and under a lot of stress, sheriff's officials said. T-Mobile spokesman Peter Dobrow is guessing that James hasn't been able to get a strong enough signal to make a call again, although he still has battery life left.
"He's on the extreme edge of coverage, and it's actually quite remarkable and encouraging that we're able to secure any information," Dobrow said of the pings.
Eighteen searchers are focusing their efforts on the ZigZag Canyon area for Hall and Cooke. Four others are awaiting clearer weather atop the Palmer Lift, at about 8,000 feet, to start hiking up to search for James. Searchers say while they welcome the brief break in the stormy weather on Mount Hood, their biggest worry is the extreme avalanche danger.
Capt. Mark Ross with the 304th Rescue Squadron said the calmer weather has given searchers a chance to be more effective.
“It’s definitely worth doing,” he said. “I have found people who have been lost in the snow for longer periods, kids even.”
The trio stranded on Mount Hood are described by friends and family as experienced climbers who sought the challenge of scaling the mountain in tough conditions.
http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/o...12.html#214805
that's interesting. hoping for some great news!
sorry, didn't mean to go pissing on the thread. I guess I get a little emotional with these sorts of stories and the Texas hating just tipped me in the wrong direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_McPoser
From CC.com is sounded like they were headed up the North Face routes, not the spur.Quote:
Originally Posted by spook
The spur is the big snowfield lookers left (below), up through the rocks and along the lookers left edge of the summit snowfield.
The NF route would likely have gone up that tiny sliver of snow in between the two big rock butresses in the middle of the image.
http://www.feedthehabit.com/pics/ski...oopersspur.jpg
More images of the area and pitch of the slope from my TR of skiing the spur with Squirrel this past July
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56942
I sure hope they can get to at least the guy in the cave. Serious exposure up there for the others if they were on the move. Squirell can vouch for that.
i was more put off by and responding to the texas comments. admitedly they didn't have a big window, but they were planning to be off by friday, and the forcasts i recall last week didn't show the main system to be moving in until monday. 2 days on the back end...judgement call.Quote:
Originally Posted by spook
hoping for a positive outcome.
From oregonlive.com
T-Mobile spokesman Peter Dobrow is guessing that James hasn't been able to get a strong enough signal to make a call again, although he still has battery life left.
"He's on the extreme edge of coverage, and it's actually quite remarkable and encouraging that we're able to secure any information," Dobrow said of the pings.
Why couldn't they bring in a mobile unit like the one used to help searchers in the Kim case? They might be able to call all three of these guys if they all have phones, or at least 'ping' them again.
I can't get my cc.com account to work, could someone post the above suggestion over there where it might get attention from the locals?
Never underestimate a New Yorker with a cell phone
James is the only one who has a cell phone. Or so I heard from a patroller at Meadows today, and a news report awhile back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum Pete
That said, I was at Mt Hood today (skiing Meadows) and the wind was absolutely vicious (gusting to the 70s at 6600'). Visibility was nearly nothing for long stretches, but there was a break late in the day... probably too late for searchers to head up unless they're willing to try and get James down in the dark (unlikely).
Searchers are relatively confident of James' location because they've frequently been able to "ping" his phone and home in on his location to within 500 meters. Searchers believe James is huddling in a snow cave at about 10,300 feet.
Searchers today had reached 8,500 feet and were marching forward.
Meanwhile, Wampler said searchers also had located a signal from a cell phone apparently carried by Hall and Cooke on Sunday. But he didn't provide more details about the ping.
Also, searchers on the Southwest side of the mountain, in the ZigZag Canyon area, had found some snowshoe tracks and were following them Saturday afternoon. Searchers aren't sure if the tracks belong to Hall and Cooke, but they believe there's a chance.
.....
but...
Besides wind and visibility, another big challenge searchers from Clackamas County, Corvallis, Salem, Hood River County, Portland and elsewhere are facing is a lack of skilled mountaineers who are trained in search and rescue. About 40 people searched Monday and about the same number are searching today, Wampler said.
"We're running out. We can't just have anybody out there," Wampler said. ".¤.¤.After a day's climb, they're done. They need a few days' rest."
Wampler said the search would go on as long as he had people to search.
more: http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/o...s/2006_12.html
and cascade climbers thread:
http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum...page/0/fpart/1
The flip-side to the "We're running out of searchers" coin is that liability wise, the Sherrif cannot and will not send out uncertified climbers to help search, regardless of experience/knowledge/etc.
should he? that doesn't really sound like the flip side. might be more reasonable to argue that they shouldn't be sending anybody at all under these conditions and circumstances.
Oh, of course they shouldn't be sending out uncertified people. The #1 rule of mountain rescue is that you must be willing to turn back if there's any danger to the rescuers.
Having seen the snow pack up there today (and spoken to multiple patrollers about it), it's not the most unsafe snowpack in the world. Mt Hood had a warm clear spell last week which allowed a lot of consolidation. They they had a moderate amount of snowfall, and then it rained on top of it.
The major worry right now are wind slabs, of which there are quite a few. Shit, there were 4" slabs on lee slopes in the trees at around 5500'. With all the wind transport it's a major issue, but the upside down cake snowpack isn't the danger right now (from what I saw and was told by others).
One of the major problems is going to be when the freezing levels jump up to about 8000' (although this should be moderated by the hellacious easterly flow) and it rains on top of all these slabs. Then the freezing level plummets again and...
It's a terrible time to be stuck up there, I'm sending out lots of positive vibes.