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soooo...then what separates the ARG from the poon? The narrowing tip? The stiffer flex? Sidewall construction (is it not a cap?)?
Both have sidecut, making the poon easily skiable on traverses...K2 just chose to run the numbers to show a pintail shape, and that's not really accurate.
I haven't skied either ski. After fondling both at Porters in Truckee, I gotta believe they'd perform and feel very different in a back-to-back ski test. The differences in tip width and camber/rocker profile have gotta be detectable while riding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumper Bones
I didn't even bother to flex the Pontoon. With shape/rocker that screwy, stiffness ain't gonna tell me much---if I wanna know how they ski, I'm just gonna have to ski 'em to find out.
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The ARG's are a cap ski, but I think they'll be at least as durable as the pontoon. The ARG's are also substantially lighter than the pontoons with a stiffer, more even flex patern. You're right, they both have sidecut, but I would indeed call the pontoon a pintail, considering it's 160mm in the tip and 120mm in the tail, wouldn't that qualify? It's definetly the first word that comes to mind when i see a pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumper Bones
All I know is it seems there's a whole lot of "this ski is better than that one", coming from people who haven't skied either of them.
My perspective is also skewed by never having skied spats. The poon toons are my first reverse-camber ski, and I'm a fan. I'd give the ARGs a try if I have the chance, just to see what the narrower tip/pivotalicious thing does.
btw I think that big floppy tip certainly has its uses. Also I wasn't banging tips together because I'm used to skiing with a wider stance anyway, and overall the snow was soft, even though I was skiing plenty of cutup no problem. But it certainly wasn't hardpack, and I can see where that could become not-fun.
As far as the pintail is concerned, yes overall it certainly is a pintail, however it isn't a strict one - like the Igneous 3T - but it does feature a fair amount of sidecut, just like the ARG. The only difference is that it doesn't narrow towards the tip.
There's also one thing to influence your purchase - where is your money going?
450 bucks to a true independent (Praxis)? Holy shit, that's a good deal
850 bucks to the best in materials and soul (DPS)?
800 bucks minimum to something mass-produced in a corporate environment in China (K2)?
And isn't the ARG made in Morocco or Tunisia or Mexico or some shit? And it costs the same?
i think that the reverse camber AK Enemy would be sick
Off topic... but some clown just bought used Spatulas with 997's for $520 off of Ebay. Wow, what a rip!
jumper- just to clarify, cause i know some of what you are taking about is in reference to me... i think the pontoons are fine skis for sure, i just think there are better options out there.
in my opinion, the reason the spatula/138/120/arg/praxis designs are so cool is the way they slice and dice and sit-up nicely in softslab/setup/recystalized snow. i see the reason for big fat skis like this is to make shitty snow feel like pow, NOT to float you in the super deep. this sensation to me, is because the shovel's shape: tapering inwards so that it can cut into the snow, while the wide undefoot keeps you up in it.
i'm stoked for you that you like yours.
naw, wasn't referring to you...thought Iggy had said you'd skied the ARGs and 'toons...plus obviously Spats and Lotuses.
so far, I haven't had an issue with the superwide tip. In fact, kind of along the lines of what you're saying, I skied them at the little pillows in-between the cut, on purpose, to see what they'd do. Instead of knifing through and then burrowing into the piles, and then bogging down & flipping me over the handlebars, they instead cut through and rise to the top, and then motor right through. Now I guess the ultimate test I'll have to give them is a big wet dump, right near freezing point, that then gets to sit overnight and refreeze after having been cut up the day before. Until that happens, I really can't compare them to what you're talking about.
There are definite downsides - the protos Iggy and I saw were definitely sidewall skis, not cap; and a stiffer flex behind the tip and then through the ski might not have been a bad idea.
Also my stoke is at day 1. Maybe it's just me going "ZOMG TEH REVERSE CAMBER LOLZ!" I really do need to try some others out.
That is going into my personal quote hall of fame! :fm: Funny!Quote:
Originally Posted by FigureEleven
I SAW THAT!!! Holy Sh-nikes I watch that thing go and go... Wow is all I can say, Wow!Quote:
Originally Posted by FigureEleven
1. I did buy the ARGs.
2. They say "Made in Austria" on them.
3. The shop is mounting them as we speak. We'll see how they do this weekend. Anyone in Seattle/Whistler with a 314mm sole and some other reverse-camber skis is welcome to trade for a run or two.
So where can you exactly buy the ARGs, I cant seem to find them anywhere.
I bought my pair at Epic in Seattle. They had one pair left this weekend. The owner (Bryce) says Epic is one of the few (the only?) shops with permission to sell ARGs mail-order.