Lost Kid with ADHD found in CO - searchers adjusted search for ADHD...interesting...

"ADHD" is basically a medical diagnosis of childhood.

Whoever thought it was possible, much less a good idea, to make kids sit down and listen to someone talk for seven hours a day was and is insane. Of course kids won't pay attention! You learn by doing, not by listening to someone drone on.

Of course, the purpose of the American school system is to turn out obedient factory laborers with minimal literacy and no tendency to unionize or rebel: the upper class has always had their own schools with their own techniques and rules. We pay lip service to learning, but it's not the goal.

President Woodrow Wilson:

"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

William Torrey Harris, US Commissioner of Education from 1889 to 1906:

"Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual."

How do you teach that kid to play basketball?

Wanna go ride a bike?

lol 12345

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Originally Posted by Spats

"ADHD" is basically a medical diagnosis of childhood.

Whoever thought it was possible, much less a good idea, to make kids sit down and listen to someone talk for seven hours a day was and is insane. Of course kids won't pay attention! You learn by doing, not by listening to someone drone on.

Of course, the purpose of the American school system is to turn out obedient factory laborers with minimal literacy and no tendency to unionize or rebel: the upper class has always had their own schools with their own techniques and rules. We pay lip service to learning, but it's not the goal.

President Woodrow Wilson:

"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

William Torrey Harris, US Commissioner of Education from 1889 to 1906:

"Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual."

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Dude, I get your point and can see some truth in it to a certain degree but one of my best friends in college had ADHD super bad. Speedy Pete was a fantastic artist but without his medicine the dude couldn't do one thing for more than five seconds. On a trip to Mexico he ran out of adderal and it was like trying to hold a conversation with a tv were someone was constantly changing the chanel. He was 24 not six and needed his fucking adderal to function. His dose was so high though he wouldn't sleep for days. He mostly went two days no sleep/ grab 8 hours and back at the shit. Intrestingly, when he discovered pot he swore that it counteracted the Adderal and made him feel "normal". I get your point, and it isn't a bad one but some people really do need this shit.

As the parent of a 7 year old boy I see a lot of this in my son's friends and in our friends' kids. I see a lot of parents and teachers who aren't willing to discipline their children. Part of it is the new taboo of spanking and negative reinforcement (I haven't spanked my son in 3 years, but he knows that there is always that option) and the other part is laziness. People are busy, both parents work full time, people aren't around their kids enough as it is and they don't want to tell their son "no" and when they do say no the kid just throws a fit and eventually they give in. The kids learn that they get rewarded for bad behavior, ie. throw a fit and get your way.
Then the kid heads off to school and some teacher who's been teaching for 17 years and has no patience left for boys who don't respect authority calls up the parents and tells them that their son has a problem and blah blah blah. Parents meet with teachers and school administrators, they reccommend a doctor, the doctor reccommends medication and the parents have a cheap new nanny and all they have to do is refill the prescription.
I too grew up with some kids that I believe really did have ADD, and they may have studied better when they took their meds, but just taking every boy that acts up in class and won't complete his assignments and putting him on dopey drugs for 20 years may not be such a good thing for society in the long run, end/rant.

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Originally Posted by Spats

"ADHD" is basically a medical diagnosis of childhood.

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OMG, my wife would have a field day on your ass. Dr. Erica put a lot of time into studies on ADD and ADHD. You are way off and way too simplistic on this issue. Shhhhhhh.................

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Originally Posted by Tap

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my question is this - The article says that the searchers changed their tactics once they found out that the boy was Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder affected and without medication.

Exactly how did they change their search tactics?

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Umm, maybe they all got baked?

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Originally Posted by Buzzworthy

OMG, my wife would have a field day on your ass. Dr. Erica put a lot of time into studies on ADD and ADHD. You are way off and way too simplistic on this issue. Shhhhhhh.................

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By the very definition of the disorder Spats is wrong. AD/HD is defined as devevelopmentally inappropriate levels of attention, impulsivity and hyperactivity. It only affects about 5% of kids.

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Originally Posted by Twoplanker

By the very definition of the disorder Spats is wrong. AD/HD is defined as devevelopmentally inappropriate levels of attention, impulsivity and hyperactivity. It only affects about 5% of kids.

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Right on target.

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My parents were most attentive. My mom was a stay at home mom. My father, a Colonel, was no slouch for discipline (I was spanked as a kid and surely came out the better for it). I didn't have a behavior problem. I had an attention/prioritizing/concentration problem. I was diagnosed with ADD when I was 9, and this was long before ADD/ADHD was a common diagnosis. The diagnosis was reconfirmed throughout my life by various psychiatrists. I can tell you from my own experience that it is not a made up diagnosis or disability.

It is a shame that the "blame someone/something else" mindset of our irresponsible society has made ADD a trendy (over)diagnosis. This is bad for the overdiagnosed kids and it also hurts the children who really have ADD/ADHD by weakening the perception of their disability as a real one.

I also abhor the lack of discipline in children, a product of the me-me-me types and the touch-feely taboo against negative reenforcment and spanking, giving As for F work to children to "boost their self-esteem."

I really feel that... ooh look at that shiny rock on the ground over there!

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Originally Posted by shmerham

Dispatch: The kid has ADHD.

Search Leader: OK. The kid has ADHD. We're changing our tactics, but we're going to stay focused on our new plan. OK?

Searcher 1: Got it.

Searcher 2: Got it.

Searcher 1: Hey, check out that cool frog! Hey, where'd it go? I gotta go find that frog.

Searcher 2: I'll help you find it.

Searcher 1: I think it went that way.

Searcher 2: I want to see how fast I can run down that hill over there.

Searcher 1: I bet I can run down it faster.

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http://endlessseason.com/smilies/rotflmao4.gif

I've already posted my feelings about this over the years. I wish I'd been able to take something for my undiagnosed ADHD when I was a kid. It would have solved a lot of problems that have had long-lasting consequences for me.

Both of my boys struggled with diagnosed ADHD when they were younger. We experimented with Ritalin on and off--mostly due to my denial. I didn't want my kids taking anything just for being boys. It was my wife who pushed for us to at least see if it made a difference. The functional differences on and off of Rit were so dramatic that it really did boil down to a decision of whether we wanted them to spend half their time in the principal's office or in class. They squeaked by with F's and D's without the chemical help and got A's and B's with. It was a no-brainer for us, so to speak.

They have thanked us many times over for not letting them end up like some of their friends whose parents flatly refused "to let their kids take drugs." I could relate some sorry tales.

But, unfortunately, experiencing results as dramatic as ours does grab people's attention. When the right drug or combo of drugs works right in the appropriate individual, it makes everyone want the same success, whether their kids actually have ADHD or not. This leads to pressure on prescribers to diagnose what may not be there, leading to overprescribing, and a horrible reputation for the whole process. It's too bad, but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Twoplanker

By the very definition of the disorder Spats is wrong. AD/HD is defined as devevelopmentally inappropriate levels of attention, impulsivity and hyperactivity. It only affects about 5% of kids.

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I'll give you all of that, but Spats' points about the education system in general are right on in my book.

Spats, If I get the pleasure to meet you again, I'd like to hang around you for a day off of my meds. Then you can experience what ADHD looks like when outside the context of "misbehaving children." Bring earplugs and shiny objects :D

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Originally Posted by Spats

"ADHD" is basically a medical diagnosis of childhood.

Whoever thought it was possible, much less a good idea, to make kids sit down and listen to someone talk for seven hours a day was and is insane. Of course kids won't pay attention! You learn by doing, not by listening to someone drone on.

Of course, the purpose of the American school system is to turn out obedient factory laborers with minimal literacy and no tendency to unionize or rebel: the upper class has always had their own schools with their own techniques and rules. We pay lip service to learning, but it's not the goal.

President Woodrow Wilson:

"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

William Torrey Harris, US Commissioner of Education from 1889 to 1906:

"Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual."

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Originally Posted by Twoplanker

AD/HD is defined as devevelopmentally inappropriate levels of attention, impulsivity and hyperactivity. It only affects about 5% of kids.

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Is that the same things as AC/DC?

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Originally Posted by iceman

I'll give you all of that, but Spats' points about the education system in general are right on in my book.

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I disagree for many reasons, too many to list all of them, but I'll list a few since you brought it up. Spats depiction of the modern American classroom at an automata factory is mostly inaccurate (in my experience) although it sets the stage nicely for a Pink Floyd video remake.

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Originally Posted by Spats

"ADHD" is basically a medical diagnosis of childhood.

Whoever thought it was possible, much less a good idea, to make kids sit down and listen to someone talk for seven hours a day was and is insane. Of course kids won't pay attention! You learn by doing, not by listening to someone drone on.

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Elementary school children typically have a six hour day, of which they sit at their desks for probably for not more than 3 hours. There is likely lots of variability within and between schools, but lets not forget that there are frequently out-of-seat activities, recess, gym, music, lunch, and assemblies. [edit] This is also certainly possible, as evidenced by the fact that it happens successfully around the country every single day of the school year.

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Of course, the purpose of the American school system is to turn out obedient factory laborers with minimal literacy and no tendency to unionize or rebel: the upper class has always had their own schools with their own techniques and rules. We pay lip service to learning, but it's not the goal.

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Whose purpose? Woodrow Wilson and Torrey Harris haven't influended our education system for nearly 100 years. What factories? Do you really believe that our need for factory workers still has any real influence on the most heavily funded activity in American government?

Spats makes an interesting point about the history of our educational system. Believing that the system is the same today as it was 100 years ago is silly. Our educational system certainly sucks in many ways and needs much improvement (I've got some suggestions) but I don't think we have to worry much about the Evil Empire secretly using Pavlovian conditioning to train our chlidren to quietly work in the steel mills for the government. To pull that off would require organization and sophistication that our government just doesn't have.

Sounds like Spats didn't like school much (me neither) but there's no need to dig up Woody Wilson to blame.

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Originally Posted by Meathelmet

Is that the same things as AC/DC?

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Actually, pretty close...

http://www.rtsi.ch/prog/images/Trasm...ica_rock-b.jpg

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Originally Posted by Twoplanker

Sounds like Spats didn't like school much (me neither)...

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Geez, why'd you go for so long, then?

Look, economic conditions are vastly different than they were 100 years ago. But tell me how

-"teaching to the test"

-eliminating or curtailing recess (today's Washington Post has a big article on this)

-eliminating or curtailing physical education

-eliminating or curtailing music and art programs

are in the interest of developing happy well-rounded adults and I'll believe you that the state doesn't have a hidden agenda in education.

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Originally Posted by iceman

Geez, why'd you go for so long, then?

Look, economic conditions are vastly different than they were 100 years ago. But tell me how

-"teaching to the test"

-eliminating or curtailing recess (today's Washington Post has a big article on this)

-eliminating or curtailing physical education

-eliminating or curtailing music and art programs

are in the interest of developing happy well-rounded adults and I'll believe you that the state doesn't have a hidden agenda in education.

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I spent so much time in school because I preferred it to actually working.

I can't tell you how those things you listed are in the interest of developing happy, well-rounded adults. I never said that they were and I don't think that they are. I'm not even sure that developing happy, well-rounded adults is the primary mission or a reasonable expectation of the education system. Getting them to read and write at acceptable levels is a big enough challenge. Do we have to further burden the system with the requirement of making our children "happy and well-rounded" too? Do you really think that the 25 year-old teacher of your fifth grade child and the other 35 fifth graders in her class can really be expected to educate your child AND make them all happy AND well-rounded in a few hours a day? Before you answer that, first define for me what makes a child "happy and well-rounded" and then get enough people in your community to agree on that definition so that we can make it an official public policy.

I don't think that the "State" (by which I assume you mean the Federal government) has a "hidden adenda in education". Unfortunately, their agenda is plain; it's just ill-conceived. The high-stakes requirements of NCLB are forcing local schools to curtail all non-academic activity in order to comply with the unrealistic and unfunded mandate to not leave any child behind. Reducing time spent on non-academic activity is just one of the many unfortunate consequences of this education policy. Implying that the Fed has some secret agenda to control the minds of the populace through our education system is ridiculous and seriously overestimates the organization, ability, and planning of our government.

Tell me, what do you think is the "hidden education agenda" of the state?

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Originally Posted by Spats

"Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual."

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If you think the majority of middle school/ highschool students are all robots "conforming to the system" you should really spend some time in an inner city school in New York or Boston, or any major city really. I'm confident you will meet some pretty interesting people. And I don't mean that entirely in a bad way either....a lot of creative minds out there, as well as a lot of fukt up ones...

Some of the most intelligent people I know are ADD/ADHD... That makes me re-think whether they're "disordered," or if the rest of us are.

Hmmmmmm.

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Originally Posted by Viva

I heard on the radio that the searchers simply followed the distinct Spiderman shoe footprints that the kid left.

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I read about the footprints in the paper Tuesday night, while watching our Spiderman DVD. I almost took this for a sign and joined the search, but they already turned away a showboater media-whore horseback tracker dude earlier in the search and they probably wouldn't have appreciated me coming down to help.

The kid was kind of lucky; they found him just before a colder wet weather system moved in Wednesday. Today's paper said he was hiding from the helicopters because he was afraid of the noise they made. Another good quote from the RMN today:

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Evan, who was taught not to talk to strangers, would hide behind trees when he heard ATVs or people yelling, said his foster father, Art Gray.

"It's just pretty weird, but he did what he's supposed to do," said Gray.

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And for those of you having the clinical ADHD discussion:

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Evan has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and his foster parents said he also has sensory integration disorder, emotional and behavioral disorders and significant limited mental capacity.

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They changed tactics & the kid was found at 420,you follow?

IMO the ADHD epidemic is no different than when doctors & research in the 50's showed that most everyone would benefit from a prescription of METH, or when they said that powdered milk was better for babies than mother's milk or....... any of the countless other crappy ideas that they thought up that they think are superior to billions of years of nature.

If my my brother & I were kids today ,chronologically speaking of course,would've been put on speed so fast it would make our heads spin.Funny how the circle leads back to how they changed tactics & found the kid.

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Originally Posted by Twoplanker

Tell me, what do you think is the "hidden education agenda" of the state?

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I don't even know why I'm arguing with you, if that's even what I'm doing.

But I basically think that a primary goal of the education system as it is set up today is the same goal as that of boot camp - destroying indivuality and preparing the students for a life of blindly following orders. "The world needs ditch diggers too, Timmy."

Maybe I just listened to The Wall one too many times.

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Originally Posted by iceman

But I basically think that a primary goal of the education system as it is set up today is the same goal as that of boot camp - destroying indivuality and preparing the students for a life of blindly following orders. "The world needs ditch diggers too, Timmy."

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I disagree, but that's based on my own experience. Individuality was neither encouraged nor discouraged when it came to my own teachers.

If anything, I think that lately, parents have been more apt to pressure/manipulate/harass teachers and administrators into completing their vision of what the educational setting should be like.

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Originally Posted by iceman

I don't even know why I'm arguing with you, if that's even what I'm doing.

But I basically think that a primary goal of the education system as it is set up today is the same goal as that of boot camp - destroying indivuality and preparing the students for a life of blindly following orders. "The world needs ditch diggers too, Timmy."

Maybe I just listened to The Wall one too many times.

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you just don't like authority. an issue I struggle with every day.