Avy at Sierra?

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03-09-2006, 12:23 AM
Cirquerider

The area in question has frequent small sluffs but does not have a reputation to slide big, and there are few terrain traps. Slope angles are 40+ degrees and usually just don't hold large slabs for long. The gentler slope aspects have heavy tree cover, but steep upper slopes and chutes are devoid of trees. The biggest hazard is sudden blind rock and cliff drops, and slides could carry you over them. The hazards are real enough. For comparison, it is 4.4 miles from Waterhouse Peak. Huckelberry Canyon has the same aspects and pitch, is 600 feet lower and drops 2000 vertical in two discinct segments separated by a large flat hanging valley.

FYI, this Saturday is the Echo to Kirkwood Race and Tour. It looks like starting from the top of Sierra and touring due south to Brian Meadows with a nice desent, rather than a 1300 foot climb is 3-miles shorter and all downhill. With a gentle 1000 foot ascent to Little Round Top before decending to Kirkwood, its an much easier route. I doubt I will miss a powder day to do this tour, but I've been meaning to do it some time.

A lot of participants park at Kirkwood, so expect parking to be bad at KW this Saturday http://www.ednsp.org/racetour.htm
03-09-2006, 01:05 AM
bio-smear

Channel 2 News Reno ran this as their headline story tonight on the 11:00 news. They even had someone LIVE at Sierra at Tahoe reporting about it. I can't believe it. Slow news day.
03-09-2006, 09:46 AM
Sierra Cement

Yea, the local news gave this some major coverage. From the aerial pictures I saw, it looked pretty insignificant. But putting a little fear into the minds of folks who don't experience the snowpack changes more often than once a weekend (at best) is not a bad thing. I personally don't know what the snowpack is like all over the state of California, much less the North Shore of Tahoe. But I have a good feel for what's going on in the 15 mile radius around Meyers. What I saw at Sierra was the same thing gimpy and I produced yesterday morning, which could have done nothing more than drag you down the slope a ways and leave you in 12" of still loose enough snow to get yourself out of (at worst). The deeper snow pack felt solid, and that's the biggest factor to me after small non wind loaded storms.

You guys can produce all the reports, codes, symbols, abbreviations and terminology you want; half the folks don't know how to read them, or what they mean anyways. The experience with the snowpack & terrain (and pit observations are just a part of that picture) is what matters most in my book when assessing avy danger. And the Central Sierra Avy forecast is the best public wide general tool available for b.c. skiers. I think they've nailed it pretty well this year too.
03-09-2006, 11:19 AM
StaggerLee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

True enough. But my $.02 ... when I'm trying to preach safety and brotherhood I generally don't call people lab rats, buffoons, dumb, posers, etc. I call them douchebags. Or for the ladies, cunty. It just works.

I am still a JONG as it relates to this board (less than some unknown threshold of posts - 100??). Still haven't dialed in the TGR taxonomy and social norms. I wouldn't have known that "douchebag" would have been more "Bro-like" than "lab rat".
03-09-2006, 11:37 AM
AKA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierra Cement

Yea, the local news gave this some major coverage. From the aerial pictures I saw, it looked pretty insignificant. But putting a little fear into the minds of folks who don't experience the snowpack changes more often than once a weekend (at best) is not a bad thing. I personally don't know what the snowpack is like all over the state of California, much less the North Shore of Tahoe. But I have a good feel for what's going on in the 15 mile radius around Meyers. What I saw at Sierra was the same thing gimpy and I produced yesterday morning, which could have done nothing more than drag you down the slope a ways and leave you in 12" of still loose enough snow to get yourself out of (at worst). The deeper snow pack felt solid, and that's the biggest factor to me after small non wind loaded storms.

You guys can produce all the reports, codes, symbols, abbreviations and terminology you want; half the folks don't know how to read them, or what they mean anyways. The experience with the snowpack & terrain (and pit observations are just a part of that picture) is what matters most in my book when assessing avy danger. And the Central Sierra Avy forecast is the best public wide general tool available for b.c. skiers. I think they've nailed it pretty well this year too.

i like this guy.
03-09-2006, 01:12 PM
mmcpheet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierra Cement

What I saw at Sierra was the same thing gimpy and I produced yesterday morning

Did you 2 hit up flagpole? Saw some tracks down hollywood and thought it was probably a DP mission.

Heard about the slide from the kwood patrollers who were out in full force yesterday 'protecting' the boundaries using this slide as reason #1. They were stationed at the traverse out towards west shore and at the end of the high T. Pretty weak that they comment how you came prepared with the necessary gear, but they can't let you go because some unprepared people will want to follow.
03-09-2006, 01:24 PM
jackstraw

Quote:

Originally Posted by StaggerLee

I am still a JONG as it relates to this board (less than some unknown threshold of posts - 100??). Still haven't dialed in the TGR taxonomy and social norms. I wouldn't have known that "douchebag" would have been more "Bro-like" than "lab rat".

man, your wasting your time w/ da posers on this board that obviously live at the 'rents home and haven't weaned from their mommy's tit yet. forget about it and let 'em be the next number.
03-09-2006, 02:29 PM
Cirquerider

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcpheet

Did you 2 hit up flagpole? Saw some tracks down hollywood and thought it was probably a DP mission.

Heard about the slide from the kwood patrollers who were out in full force yesterday 'protecting' the boundaries using this slide as reason #1. They were stationed at the traverse out towards west shore and at the end of the high T. Pretty weak that they comment how you came prepared with the necessary gear, but they can't let you go because some unprepared people will want to follow.

I could see West Shore building up a pretty good load of sluff (or worse) in current conditions, and California Col...wouldn't recommend going there today. I'm hoping to see some better bonding over the weekend, but with the cold temps, I'm not counting on it.
03-09-2006, 02:57 PM
mmcpheet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirquerider

I could see West Shore building up a pretty good load of sluff (or worse) in current conditions, and California Col...wouldn't recommend going there today. I'm hoping to see some better bonding over the weekend, but with the cold temps, I'm not counting on it.

I agree with you that there was potential, but would have liked to take a closer look and make that call myself. From what I observed on Sat. and yesterday, it appears that the top layer of snow is sluffing and not running as a cohesive unit. Sluffs and slabs are different beasts as SC pointed out:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierra Cement

which could have done nothing more than drag you down the slope a ways and leave you in 12" of still loose enough snow to get yourself out of (at worst).

I've never been a fan of having decisions made for me in the interest of the collective. Probably why I don't ride the lifts much anymore.
03-09-2006, 04:20 PM
gimpy

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcpheet

Did you 2 hit up flagpole? Saw some tracks down hollywood and thought it was probably a DP mission.

yup:biggrin:

bottom line here is do what you feel comfortable w/ based on whatever info you can get at the time. i'm still :rolleyes: w/ this whole incident and how much attention it got. it was a 6" crown non-slab avy for chrissakes!!!! in this age of constant dickhead litigation, i'm sure kwood was just playing it safe. because if someone did go and bury themselves ob the day after a "widely reported serious avalanche at a resort", the media and people like stagger lee would ask how they could be so irresponsible and then open the door for lawsuits. still sucks though for you guys who were knowledgable and prepared to hit the gates. just more resort bullshit:tongue: .
03-09-2006, 05:32 PM
StaggerLee

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpy

yup:biggrin:

bottom line here is do what you feel comfortable w/ based on whatever info you can get at the time. i'm still :rolleyes: w/ this whole incident and how much attention it got. it was a 6" crown non-slab avy for chrissakes!!!! in this age of constant dickhead litigation, i'm sure kwood was just playing it safe. because if someone did go and bury themselves ob the day after a "widely reported serious avalanche at a resort", the media and people like stagger lee would ask how they could be so irresponsible and then open the door for lawsuits. still sucks though for you guys who were knowledgable and prepared to hit the gates. just more resort bullshit:tongue: .

What a dick..."people like Stagger Lee"...First off, Stagger Lee is a "bad man"...Second of all, I am ALL about personal responsibility. I could easily see one of you tools injuring yourself and then blaming it on the resort for not preventing you from accessing the BC. Let me tell you - I am so impressed with you...you're living dangerously...bad to the bone...real hardcore...BTW, if it wasn't a slab, how did it have a crown?? In the end, do it like real men...earn your turns or shut the f*$k up.
03-09-2006, 05:52 PM
Telenater

Quote:

Originally Posted by StaggerLee

Second of all, I am ALL about personal responsibility. I could easily see one of you tools injuring yourself and then blaming it on the resort for not preventing you from accessing the BC. Let me tell you - I am so impressed with you...you're living dangerously...bad to the bone...real hardcore...BTW, if it wasn't a slab, how did it have a crown?? In the end, do it like real men...earn your turns or shut the f*$k up.

Not a particularly effective way of trying to educate people about the risks.

A) AKA said, "I hope they don't close the boundaries" Sounds to me like he was hoping for exactly what you stated, that people making mistakes out of bounds wouldn't cause the resorts to close their boundaries. i.e. making people take personal responsibility.

B) Gimpy et al earn their fair share of turns, and unlike some other folks I've been out with, Gimpy has always made what appear to me to be solid and safe choices.

C) Crown, was it a crown created from a slab, or was it just the upper terminus of the area that sloughed? I haven't seen those answers posted.

D) People who preach from a high horse and get offensive while doing it are doing the population who do know the bc and can provide very good education a disservice. (no, I don't count myself among those people, I'm only an amature who plays it really cautiously).
03-09-2006, 05:53 PM
Greydon Clark

FYI: Gimpy is out on dawn patrol 4-5 days a week. He’ll crush you on the uphill and downhill. Half the people on this thread have skied together a lot, yet you are talking mad shit about people you don't know.
03-09-2006, 06:05 PM
runethechamp

In other news, 137 are dead in an avalanche in Norway. 137 wild reindeer that is.
03-09-2006, 06:21 PM
Sierra Cement

Quote:

Originally Posted by StaggerLee

Let me tell you - I am so impressed with you...you're living dangerously...bad to the bone...real hardcore...BTW, if it wasn't a slab, how did it have a crown?? In the end, do it like real men...earn your turns or shut the f*$k up.

Yo StaggerLee, if you're not too much of a bad ass for us you could actually join in early some morning and observe some local snowpack. Believe it or not, the "reported" slide occurred on the same day, only a couple of miles from where gimpy and I were skiing that morning. And we were on our own, no patrol, well earned turns, in the b.c. We did see some pretty hefty sloughing exactly where we expected it, and it may have even appeared to have a crown. I don't know, I didn't check, cause it was just slough. I skied the bed layer of the path for a few turns, and it was still soft and good, not a scoured slab path. I think we were as qualified as anyone to make the call on the status of that day's snowpack. From the LiveCopter 3 pictures I saw all over the news, it appeared to be the same flavor, same size scoop as the ones at Sierra. But dude, you are damn convincing from your keyboard in who know's what dry corner of this country. Rock On!
03-09-2006, 06:30 PM
MTT

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-smear

Channel 2 News Reno ran this as their headline story tonight on the 11:00 news. They even had someone LIVE at Sierra at Tahoe reporting about it. I can't believe it. Slow news day.

I was thinking the same thing when I saw it on channel 4. From everything I saw, I did not think I was looking at an avalance, just a minor sluff / slab slide.
03-10-2006, 01:09 AM
StaggerLee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierra Cement

Yo StaggerLee, if you're not too much of a bad ass for us you could actually join in early some morning and observe some local snowpack. Believe it or not, the "reported" slide occurred on the same day, only a couple of miles from where gimpy and I were skiing that morning. And we were on our own, no patrol, well earned turns, in the b.c. We did see some pretty hefty sloughing exactly where we expected it, and it may have even appeared to have a crown. I don't know, I didn't check, cause it was just slough. I skied the bed layer of the path for a few turns, and it was still soft and good, not a scoured slab path. I think we were as qualified as anyone to make the call on the status of that day's snowpack. From the LiveCopter 3 pictures I saw all over the news, it appeared to be the same flavor, same size scoop as the ones at Sierra. But dude, you are damn convincing from your keyboard in who know's what dry corner of this country. Rock On!

SC, would welcome hooking up with you and your crew. Although my bro in law lives just north of Meeks Bay, I don't usually make it that far north. Mammoth and surrounding area is my local patch. I think we have gotten enough mileage out of this thread...
03-10-2006, 09:36 AM
gimpy

agreed stagger. sorry, i kinda baited ya w/ that comment about people like stagger lee to get a rise outta you:biggrin:

not only is that muthah big
03-10-2006, 10:03 AM
Cirquerider

What I saw of this old event was slough-like, but the snowpack continues to evolve, and I haven't been in it for a week. The Sierra Avalanche Center continues to up the avy risk each day. Currently:

Quote:

Avalanche activity today is expected to occur within the storm snow. Expect to find sensitive wind slabs high in avalanche start zones below ridgelines. Expect significant sluff activity in steep protected areas. Avalanche activity is expected to be more widespread today than yesterday.

Near and above treeline, avalanche danger is HIGH on wind loaded NW-NE-SE aspects 33 degrees and steeper. Below treeline, avalanche danger is MODERATE with pockets of CONSIDERABLE in open areas 35 degrees and steeper where sluff activity is expected.

Does anyone with feet on the snow agree with this observation?
03-10-2006, 10:53 AM
kidwoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirquerider

What I saw of this old event was slough-like, but the snowpack continues to evolve, and I haven't been in it for a week. The Sierra Avalanche Center continues to up the avy risk each day. Currently:

Does anyone with feet on the snow agree with this observation?

I was working down off monitor pass yesterday and with the light snow sitting on top of some pretty beat down sun/wind layers, I'd certainly believe it. I was kicking off little slabs on xc skis traversing accross some pretty minor little slopes. Not a whole lot of bonding on the downwind sides where the accumulation was.
03-10-2006, 01:05 PM
StaggerLee

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpy

agreed stagger. sorry, i kinda baited ya w/ that comment about people like stagger lee to get a rise outta you:biggrin:

not only is that muthah big

Gimpy, nice to see that someone understands the context around my handle AND my comments about Stagger Lee being a bad man.;) "...he packs a 45"
03-10-2006, 01:18 PM
homerjay

Quote:

Originally Posted by StaggerLee

"...he packs a 45"

Everytime I see your name the song pops into my head. At least it's a good one.
03-10-2006, 01:38 PM
jackstraw

do avi's occur in cali?:biggrin:

this thread is over the top!
03-10-2006, 02:14 PM
kidwoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackstraw

do avi's occur in cali?:biggrin:

this thread is over the top!

Check the psa:mammoth thread.

Some interesting slide pics in there.

Greater than the massive 6" crown realm even.
03-10-2006, 02:25 PM
bcrider

Quote:

Originally Posted by StaggerLee

Gimpy, nice to see that someone understands the context around my handle AND my comments about Stagger Lee being a bad man.;) "...he packs a 45"

I smell hippy music. :tongue:

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