Dynafit Comfort or Classic?

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05-18-2006, 12:39 PM
ski_rick

I've got two pairs of skis with Comforts, on my TMEXs I use straps, either the bondage straps that came with the bindings in stable spring conditions or home brewed straps ala Wildsnow.com when I'm a bit more worried about the avy potential.

I put a second pair on my 188 Bro stiffs. Since I use these inbounds pretty often I went for the brakes. Installation was a snap using Lou's instructions on Wildsnow.com. I have found that when snow gets caught up in the binding the brakes don't always come down (after digging around for 15 minutes in the slush at Alpine a few weeks ago I noticed a single ski track and there was my ski at the bottom of the run, break still retracted). I also find switching from downhill to tour mode I have to take my skis off and rotate the heal by hand to get the brake locked down, on my TMEXs I can do the rotate with my pole, lift up the heal trick to switch without removing the skis.

Overall I love the binding though, they feel more solid to me then any other AT binding, my Bro/Comfort/Aero Freeride set up are becoming my go to skis.
05-18-2006, 01:33 PM
Camilo

Lee, PM me your address and I'll mail you a manual if it's still where I think it is. There's definitely no toe height adjustment a la Fritschi. If you want to adjust boot height, you'll have to use a spacer or carving plate.
05-18-2006, 01:36 PM
Camilo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ski_rick

I also find switching from downhill to tour mode I have to take my skis off and rotate the heal by hand to get the brake locked down, . . .

No need to bend over, unless you like to. Step out of your binding normally, push brake down with your boot, perpendicular ski, rotate binding with pole. Works a lot easier than using your hands. If this doesn't make sense, I can post pictures.
05-18-2006, 01:55 PM
upallnight

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeLau

Re the height adjustment. Fritschi has a toe height adjustment to allow the toe to be adjusted up and down. It appears that there is no height adjustment on Dynafits to adjust toe and heel height off the ski topsheet.

You're right -- there is none; it's not necessary.

The Fritschi uses the toe height adjustment as an integral part of it's release/retention system. On the Dynafit, the height is not an issue as the "bottom" (/bear trap) of the toe piece drops down when you step in, and the boot is held by the two side pins.
05-18-2006, 01:56 PM
upallnight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camilo

Lee, PM me your address and I'll mail you a manual if it's still where I think it is. There's definitely no toe height adjustment a la Fritschi. If you want to adjust boot height, you'll have to use a spacer or carving plate.

If that manual doesn't turn up, I could scan and email/fax you a copy of the English, German, French, or Italian version... :)
05-18-2006, 08:24 PM
Jonathan S.

I have one extra Comfort manual and one extra Classic/Speed/whatever manual.
But they're good mainly for entertainment value (which is why I'm keeping my other Comfort manual and Classic manual), as in, how could anyone ever successfully follow their mounting directions, as compared to wildsnow's comprehensive guide? Overall, you're far better off reading Lou's info than trying to decipher the original manual.
05-19-2006, 12:07 AM
ski_rick

Ah ha, I can picture that, I'll give it a try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camilo

No need to bend over, unless you like to. Step out of your binding normally, push brake down with your boot, perpendicular ski, rotate binding with pole. Works a lot easier than using your hands. If this doesn't make sense, I can post pictures.
05-19-2006, 06:43 AM
Alpinist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Crash

I am going to get a real randonnee setup this year with Dynafit bindings

Some brain food. A "real" randonnee setup (as you describe in your post) implies a priority of lightweight ascent performance over heavier descent equipment. So if what you want is a "real" randonnee setup forget brakes, freeriding boots and fatter skis (>75mm waist). Any of these kills the purpose of a "real" randonnee setup, at least as for what randonnee is understood here in Europe. I don't understand people that put Dynafits on Gotamas and other heavy fat skis for randonnee use. Big skis need big bindings and big boots.

I am in Europe now and AT is a big thing around here, considering there are good hut systems both in the Alps and Pyrenees. Currently, I have 3 setups with AT bindings (I am sure I wouldn't have that many if I were somewhere else):

- Gotamas + Fritschi Freerides (higher DIN than Dynafit) + Lange alpine boots for single big mountain days in deep pow.
- Atomic R9 + Fritschi Diamir + Scarpa Matrix for multi-day touring.

None of these is a "real" randonnee setup (again, for Euro standards) because they both have strong (and heavier) descent performance components. Around here, they are considered more of a freeriding-kind of setup.

My "real" randonnee setup is:
Skis: Volkl Mountain Norbert Joos 170cm.
Bindings: Dynafit TLT Speed w/ leashes (what you call "classic")
Boots: Scarpa F1

This setup weight 6.5 lbs. + boots. Are you sure this is what you really want? Because there is a lot you leave in the way in terms of descent performance with a setup like this. Now, if you are into freeriding and AT North American-style then you might want to consider a stronger setup even if that sacrifices ascent performance. Not trying to scare you off the Dynafit, just to make you think how you are combining these great bindings into your system (ski & boots).
05-19-2006, 04:57 PM
upallnight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Some brain food. A "real" randonnee setup (as you describe in your post) implies a priority of lightweight ascent performance over heavier descent equipment. So if what you want is a "real" randonnee setup forget brakes, freeriding boots and fatter skis (>75mm waist). Any of these kills the purpose of a "real" randonnee setup, at least as for what randonnee is understood here in Europe. I don't understand people that put Dynafits on Gotamas and other heavy fat skis for randonnee use. Big skis need big bindings and big boots.

I am in Europe now and AT is a big thing around here, considering there are good hut systems both in the Alps and Pyrenees. Currently, I have 3 setups with AT bindings (I am sure I wouldn't have that many if I were somewhere else):

Well....that is sort of narrow thinking. I have 5 different AT setups, and I don't live where you live.

Needing big, burly boots to steer a big ski is a bit of a crutch. It makes things easier, but some big skis can be driven just fine with AT boots. If someone wants to throw Dynafits instead of Fritschis on a pair of fat skis (105-120mm waist), why not?

Perhaps they do not jump cliffs. Perhaps they want to save 3 pounds of weight (a weight savings is definitely good: going from 12 pounds to 9 is just as good as going from 9 to 6...but your point is taken that one could go from 12 to 6 by saving weight on the skis, too).

However, if someone wants to maximize their fun on a deep-snow tour, perhaps they are willing to add 3 pounds by touring with a 120mm-waist ski instead of the 75...but they negate the increase by using Dynafits. That is perfectly acceptable.

Maybe the guy just likes the better skinning stride offered by Dynafits?

Yes, Dynafits are incredible for many reasons, and they excel on the lightest-of-light setups (I have one)...but I also have a pair on a 99mm waist ski, and I'm thinking of putting them on a 120mm waist ski.

I, too, have Freerides on skis from 80mm to 138mm.

One can mix-and-match the components to best serve their purpose. If it's a long day/long tour and you just want to get as far away as possible, go with ultra light gear.

If you are riding lifts and just skiing some off-piste terrain, by all means go with the heavy/burly stuff.

For everything else in between, use a combination that suits you.

Even alpine boots + trekkers have their place.
05-19-2006, 05:05 PM
LeeLau

Its Euro thinking. You try skiing PNW cheese-whiz in light rando gear. It'll work but it's not pretty.

NOT TO GENERALIZE OR ANYTHING ;)
05-19-2006, 05:13 PM
upallnight

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeLau

NOT TO GENERALIZE OR ANYTHING ;)

Not that there's anything wrong with that... :D

I skied Solstice off of Mt Dana in the Sierras last spring on a pair of 170cm/72mm waist skis w/ Dynafits....so they have their place even in the coastal snowpack...but the priority on that trip was getting to the summit ASAP before the soup-thang happened.

I have skied the same couloir on 90+mm waist, burly skis, too.

It's all about the right tool for the job/day.
05-19-2006, 06:08 PM
Alpinist

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

Well....that is sort of narrow thinking. I have 5 different AT setups, and I don't live where you live.

Needing big, burly boots to steer a big ski is a bit of a crutch. It makes things easier, but some big skis can be driven just fine with AT boots. If someone wants to throw Dynafits instead of Fritschis on a pair of fat skis (105-120mm waist), why not?

Perhaps they do not jump cliffs. Perhaps they want to save 3 pounds of weight (a weight savings is definitely good: going from 12 pounds to 9 is just as good as going from 9 to 6...but your point is taken that one could go from 12 to 6 by saving weight on the skis, too).

However, if someone wants to maximize their fun on a deep-snow tour, perhaps they are willing to add 3 pounds by touring with a 120mm-waist ski instead of the 75...but they negate the increase by using Dynafits. That is perfectly acceptable.

Maybe the guy just likes the better skinning stride offered by Dynafits?

Yes, Dynafits are incredible for many reasons, and they excel on the lightest-of-light setups (I have one)...but I also have a pair on a 99mm waist ski, and I'm thinking of putting them on a 120mm waist ski.

I, too, have Freerides on skis from 80mm to 138mm.

One can mix-and-match the components to best serve their purpose. If it's a long day/long tour and you just want to get as far away as possible, go with ultra light gear.

If you are riding lifts and just skiing some off-piste terrain, by all means go with the heavy/burly stuff.

For everything else in between, use a combination that suits you.

Even alpine boots + trekkers have their place.

Listen, I don't want to get into an argument. I might be narrow-minded for you, so fine. I am not going to play the calling-names game. Concerning your conterarguments, this is my opinion:

BIG BOOTS

YOU might not need big boots for big skis 'cause you weight >180 lbs., some people are lighter and need that stiffness their bodyweight can't impart. And if big boots are a "crutch" for you, I guess you can say the same thing for fat skis on powder. Don't use that "crutch" and go back to thin straight ones next time there is a big dump, then tell me about it.

WHY LIGHTWEIGHT BINDINGS DON'T GO WITH FAT SKIS

1) I was addressing the desires of the OP for a "real randonnee setup". And Dynafits on Gotamas ain't it. Tell me you put Dynafits on Gotamas because you trust their DIN 10 (???) or their reliability or you love the brand, whatever. Just don't tell me it's too lighten up the setup. Bull, go with a narrower waist.

2) How many consecutive days have you toured on 120mm. skis? It's a pain in the ass. Unless you are some super-freak (and you are not, considering your 2.5K vert/hour) there is no way you are gonna suffer 5 hours a day for a 30-45 minute joyride. That's where you need to compromise and go with a 75-80mm. and suck it up if it's too deep on descent. A super-fit friend of mine (much fitter than 2.5K vert/hour) started the Chamonix-Zermatt on Gotamas + Freerides. We warned him against it. He bailed out on day 2. Too much fucking weight for 6 days of altitude AT.

3) Single-day, I buy your argument of going out with a 120mm on the big days (I have the Gotamas/Freerides myself). But if it's only going to be a single day, why the hell the weight savings? Again, suck it up. And another important reason for no Dynafit in powder skis: Have you ever tried to put on a Dynafit in deep powder? Pfffff....Go with a Freeride in the deep or just pray that ski won't come out. It'll take you ages to put it on again.

4) Better striding of the Dynafit? Yeah, but it is completely offset in deep snow conditions as your stride is far from efficient in those situations. And if the quest of the best striding is your thing, with Dynafit you are wrong again. Go with Naxo.
05-19-2006, 06:28 PM
upallnight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

YOU might not need big boots for big skis 'cause you weight >180 lbs., some people are lighter and need that stiffness their bodyweight can't impart. And if big boots are a "crutch" for you, I guess you can say the same thing for fat skis on powder. Don't use that "crutch" and go back to thin straight ones next time there is a big dump, then tell me about it.

Well, I ride AT boots 100% of the time on skis up to 138mm waist and weigh under 180lbs...so I'm not sure that you're talking about me here.

You advocated using Alpine boots for some tours. I agree with you there...someonetimes there is a compromise. Sometimes you care more about the uphill, other times the focus is the downhill (weight be damned!), and most often it is a mix.

Therefore, a narrow, full-lightweight setup is rarely the best choice for that middle group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

1) I was addressing the desires of the OP for a "real randonnee setup". And Dynafits on Gotamas ain't it. Tell me you put Dynafits on Gotamas because you trust their DIN 10 (???) or their reliability or you love the brand, whatever. Just don't tell me it's too lighten up the setup. Bull, go with a narrower waist.

Huh? What if the guy wants to tour for pow? Why can't he choose to drop 3 pounds in the bindings and have fun on the way down instead of dropping weight in getting a narrow ski and have less fun on the descent??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

2) How many consecutive days have you toured on 120mm. skis? It's a pain in the ass. Unless you are some super-freak (and you are not, considering your 2.5K vert/hour) there is no way you are gonna suffer 5 hours a day for a 30-45 minute joyride. That's where you need to compromise and go with a 75-80mm. and suck it up if it's too deep on descent. A super-fit friend of mine (much fitter than 2.5K vert/hour) started the Chamonix-Zermatt on Gotamas + Freerides. We warned him against it. He bailed out on day 2. Too much fucking weight for 6 days of altitude AT.

Well, I don't often tour on 120mm-waist skis. But, as I said, I have 5 AT setups that I ride, on average, 150+ days a year. Depending on the focus of the tour, I choose my gear.

BTW, the 2.5K vert/hour was an average taken from steep terrain w/ 99mm-waist skis. Draw whatever conclusions you wish.

We don't know if the original poster here is doing the Haute Route (where lightweight gear is at a premium)...but I suspect his focus is on the Pacific Northwest as that is where he lives. It's unlikely that he's going to be doing 10-day traverses. It's probably *more* likely he's going to be doing single day trips.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

3) Single-day, I buy your argument of going out with a 120mm on the big days (I have the Gotamas/Freerides myself). But if it's only going to be a single day, why the hell the weight savings? Again, suck it up. And another important reason for no Dynafit in powder skis: Have you ever tried to put on a Dynafit in deep powder? Pfffff....Go with a Freeride in the deep or just pray that ski won't come out. It'll take you ages to put it on again.

Yeah, I've put Dynafits on in all conditions. Have you ever put them on on 55+ degree terrain? Not fun.

Why not have the weight savings on any day? Why didn't your buddy just "suck it up" for that tour? Why not always just "suck it up"? Where does one draw the line?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

4) Better striding of the Dynafit? Yeah, but it is completely offset in deep snow conditions as your stride is far from efficient in those situations. And if the quest of the best striding is your thing, with Dynafit you are wrong again. Go with Naxo.

I think I'd still take the Dynafit over the Naxo or Fritschi for *steep* skinning. Being that high off the ski makes it difficult to get proper pressure for the really steep skin tracks. The Dynafit is much better.

Plus...the Naxo is even heavier! Naxo? No, thanks.

This isn't about a you-or-me argument... I just think that there is a continuum, and depending on what one's priorities are and the types of tours one is likely to do, some COMBINATION of lightweight and heavier/specific-purpose gear probably works out the best.

Gots + Dynafits? Good short-tour powder setup.
Gots + Fritschis? Also good, but I bet a guy on Gots + Dynafits would beat this guy to the top and maybe get an extra lap in that day, all else equal.

Trabs/other lightweight/70mm ski + Dynafits? Awesome long-tour setup.
Lightweight ski + Naxos? Why?
05-19-2006, 07:05 PM
Alpinist

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

Therefore, a narrow, full-lightweight setup is rarely the best choice for that middle group.

My point precisely, THEN he doesn't need a "REAL randonee setup" but some fat skis with AT bindings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

BTW, the 2.5K vert/hour was an average taken from steep terrain w/ 99mm-waist skis. Draw whatever conclusions you wish.

Hey, that was your call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

We don't know if the original poster here is doing the Haute Route (where lightweight gear is at a premium)...but I suspect his focus is on the Pacific Northwest as that is where he lives. It's unlikely that he's going to be doing 10-day traverses. It's probably *more* likely he's going to be doing single day trips.

AGAIN, my point precisely. No need for Dynafits, 2-pound skis or lime green boots. Go with the big fat skis, Freerides and Denali XTs. He'll have much more fun with that a heavy rig that with "real randonee setup".

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

Yeah, I've put Dynafits on in all conditions. Have you ever put them on on 55+ degree terrain? Not fun.

Gee man, you are my hero... but we are talking here about Dynafit usability in deep/fat-ski conditions. What does 60º couloirs got do with it??? Any binding would be tough to get in on a 60º couloir. And if you have put them on in all conditions, you can't tell me it's easy doing so in deep powder, mr. 150+ days (I trust you know what you are talking about. If not I wouldn't care to reply. No need to throw up your resume at my face).

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

Why didn't your buddy just "suck it up" for that tour?

Because he's a fucking fool that always have too show how macho he is to compensate for his small weenie. Bottom line: we skied down the north face of the Matterhorn 4 days later on our 72mm. skis while he was sipping capuccinos on Rue Paccard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

I think I'd still take the Dynafit over the Naxo or Fritschi for *steep* skinning. Being that high off the ski makes it difficult to get proper pressure for the really steep skin tracks. The Dynafit is much better.

You brought up the striding effciency issue. It's a scientific fact the Naxo has the longest stride for the same amount of effort. PERIOD. I still prefer the Dynafit for multi-day and Freerides for the big deep single-day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

some COMBINATION of lightweight and heavier/specific-purpose gear probably works out the best.

Sorry, but I disagree. If you can afford it, I would avoid COMPROMISE, which is what you are advocating with this statement. Get the lighweight rig and get the bombproof rig.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

Gots + Dynafits? Good short-tour powder setup

AGAIN, I don't see this as a great setup considering:
a) how tough it's to get into Dynafits in deep powder and
b) most (or all) AT boots with Dynafit inserts are not stiff/big enough to handle 120mm. waists. Doable, yes. Fun, no. I can't image riding my Gotamas in Scarpas F1. Again, this is just me.
05-19-2006, 07:21 PM
upallnight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

AGAIN, my point precisely. No need for Dynafits, 2-pound skis or lime green boots. Go with the big fat skis, Freerides and Denali XTs. He'll have much more fun with that a heavy rig that with "real randonee setup".

I think you just don't get it that there is a middle road. We'll need to agree-to-disagree on this.

If a ski (or boot) offered the same performance but there was a heavier version, I feel like you'd advocate the heavier version for the "big days". Example, if the Gotama was available in a 12-pound version and a 7-pound version, you'd be telling the guy to go with the 12-pounder + Freerides + XTs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Gee man, you are my hero... but we are talking here about Dynafit usability in deep/fat-ski conditions. What does 60º couloirs got do with it??? Any binding would be tought to get in a 60º couloir. And if you have put them on in all conditions, you can't tell me it's easy doing so in deep powder, mr. 150+ days (no need to throw up your resume at my face).

The original poster never said he was out to ski powder, either...so we are just guessing about his intended use and discussing all possible conditions. Or so I thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Because he's a fucking fool that always have too show how macho he is to compensate for his small weenie. Bottom line: we skied down the north face of the Matterhorn 4 days later on our 72mm. skis while he was sipping capuccinos on Rue Paccard.

Well, fat skis for steep, hardpack/icy terrain are rarely the best choice, so he's retarded if he went on a multi-day tour only to ski that objective with that gear. Did you discuss this with him?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

You brought up the striding effciency issue. It's a scientific fact the Naxo has the longest stride for the same amount of effort. PERIOD. I still prefer the Dynafit for multi-day and Freerides for the big deep single-day.

I specifically mentioned skinning efficiency on steep skintracks (striaght up, no traversing). Length of stride per unit of effort is not as important as the ability to direct force in the right spot on the ski. Since you sit much lower on the Dynafits than Naxos/Fritschis, you have more precise control. I'll take your word for it on less steep skintracks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Sorry, but I disagree. If you can afford it, I would avoid COMPROMISE, which is what you are advocating with this statement. Get the lighweight rig and get the bombproof rig.

Well, the original poster is *finally* moving from Trekkers to a dedicated AT setup, which means that he is probably not flush with cash and cannot afford multiple "no compromise" setups. If he's going to ski PNW pow (not Alps steeps), he probably wants a fat ski. Why not minimize weight given that parameter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

AGAIN, I don't see this as a great setup considering:
a) how tough it's to get into Dynafits in deep powder and

Well, I pretty much put my skis on at the trailhead and take the skins off at the top without stepping out of the binding....so what's the big deal about getting them on in deep powder? Even if you take them off at the top (or if you hiked with them on your back), usually the top of whatever peak is somewhat wind-affected (e.g., firm base to stand on), so it's not a big deal.

I don't stop in the middle of a descent and take my skis on and off.

I grant that at the bottom it is hard to switch back to touring mode & apply skins with Dynafits, but leaving one ski on and working on the other is not that challenging. It leaves you with a good base to stand on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

b) most (or all) AT boots with Dynafit inserts are not stiff/big enough to handle 120mm. waists. Doable, yes. Fun, no. I can't image riding my Gotamas in Scarpas F1. Again, this is just me.

I have tons of fun with my MegaRides on skis up to 138mm waist. F1s would be the wrong choice, but that's like suggesting using a World-cup race boot with cross-country gear. Don't blame the boot. There are solid Dynafit-compatible choices for big gear.
05-19-2006, 08:08 PM
Alpinist

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

I think you just don't get it that there is a middle road. We'll need to agree-to-disagree on this.

Like Mr. Miyagi used to say:"Karate yes? Okay. Karate no? Okay. Karate maybe...? Squashed like a grape!?" Bottom line: IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY, THERE IS NO NEED TO WALK THE MIDDLE ROAD, unless you want to be squashed like a grape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

If a ski (or boot) offered the same performance but there was a heavier version, I feel like you'd advocate the heavier version for the "big days".

Of course not, but this is not the point we are discussing. You are off-track. The point is they (Gotamas vs. Trabs, XTs vs. F1s) DON'T offer the same perfomance, do they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

The original poster never said he was out to ski powder, either...

man, this is getting weird. I said to the OP "Are you sure you want real randonee setup? You are going to lose a lot in the down. Think about it"

Then you said:"Pfff...that is eurotrash. there is a middle road"

I've said: No need for a middle road if you have the dough. Buy both the light and deep-day rigs.

Now you say: "he never said he was out to ski powder" and a couple of post ago you were something like:

"if someone wants to maximize their fun on a DEEP_SNOW tour, perhaps they are willing to add 3 pounds by touring with a 120mm-waist ski instead of the 75"

"What if the guy wants to tour for POW? Why can't he choose to drop 3 pounds in the bindings and have fun on the way down instead of dropping weight in getting a narrow ski and have less fun on the descent??"

YOU LOST ME.:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallclimbing

Well, fat skis for steep, hardpack/icy terrain are rarely the best choice

The Haute Route is not hardpack icy terrain. If that were the case, the gear decision would be easy. It's the whole snow encyclopedia in 6 days, you see everything: powder in the north faces, ice in the east faces, crust, corn, crud, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

Well, the original poster is *finally* moving from Trekkers to a dedicated AT setup, which means that he is probably not flush with cash and cannot afford multiple "no compromise" setups.

He already seems to have THREE pairs of skis and says "he wants more". Money doesn't seem to be problem with statements like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

Well, I pretty much put my skis on at the trailhead and take the skins off at the top without stepping out of the binding....so what's the big deal about getting them on in deep powder?

People fall and bindings pop out. You might be a genius and this may not affect you, but the majority of mortals (me included) suffer more performing this operation on Dynafits in deep powder than in Freerides.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

I don't stop in the middle of a descent and take my skis on and off.

Sorry, I forgot you only do this in the middle of 60º couloirs.:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

I grant that at the bottom it is hard to switch back to touring mode

At last, we agree on something.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

F1s would be the wrong choice, but that's like suggesting using a World-cup race boot with cross-country gear. Don't blame the boot. There are solid Dynafit-compatible choices for big gear.

No, world cup race boot on x-country gear will be the opposite of what I was saying. Anyway, what is that "solid Dynafit-compatible choices for big gear"? I would sincerely love to hear that because my Matrix (with the XT tongue) are soft like a pancake in a humid summer day. And I'm only 160 lbs.
05-19-2006, 08:21 PM
upallnight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Like Mr. Miyagi used to say:"Karate yes? Okay. Karate no? Okay. Karate maybe...? Squashed like a grape!?" Bottom line: IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY, THERE IS NO NEED TO WALK THE MIDDLE ROAD, unless you want to be squashed like a grape.

I like that quote, but I think that speaks more to a mindset than gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Of course not, but this is not the point we are discussing. You are off-track. The point is they (Gotamas vs. Trabs, XTs vs. F1s) DON'T offer the same perfomance, do they?

No, they don't. Each has it's place, and each is at one end of the continuum. There are choices between a Trab & a Gotama, and there are choices between an XT & F1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Then you said:"Pfff...that is eurotrash. there is a middle road"

Err....the 2nd part is accurate, but that first comment wasn't mine. I still *do* think it's a narrow view to say there is no middle road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

The Haute Route is not hardpack icy terrain. If that were the case, the gear decision would be easy. It's the whole snow encyclopedia in 6 days, you see everything: powder in the north faces, ice in the east faces, crust, corn, crud, etc.

I have not done the route (sot that is a huge caveat), but all friends' reports back to me tell me there is a lot more time spent traversing and ascending (and firm conditions) than skiing pow. From that perspective -- and I think there isn't a soul who would argue otherwise -- the setup one would choose as optimal for the H.R. is very different from what one would choose for a day tour in the PNW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

He already seems to have THREE pairs of skis and says "he wants more". Money doesn't seem to be problem with statements like that.

Fair enough -- I missed that! My mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Sorry, I forgot you only do this [remove skis] in the middle of 60º couloirs.:D

Well, the truth is that I am about 100x more likely to remove my skis in a steep couloir in order to downclimb or rappel, than I am to have to put my skis on in the middle of a descent in pow. But that's just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

No, world cup race boot on x-country gear will be the opposite of what I was saying. Anyway, what is that "solid Dynafit-compatible choices for big gear"? I would sincerely love to hear that because my Matrix (with the XT tongue) are soft like a pancake in a humid summer day. And I'm only 160 lbs.

Well, I stated it in my post above, but here it is again:
I use Garmont MegaRides (with modifications) every day of the season, hiking and riding lifts. I've posted in several threads tips on how someone can maximize performance of those boots.

You missed my point, too. You told the poster that riding big skis in Dynafit-compatible boots was doable, but not fun. I disagree...I have plenty of fun with the MegaRides and even the biggest of skis.

Also, you provided the example of Gotamas and F1s as evidence of how you could do it but not enjoy it. That's why I said that is analogous to recommending full-on alpine boots with x-c skis -- it's an example of a bad combination. Why not recommend a better (for descents) Dynafit-compatible boot for use with the Gotama?

Your example served your purpose but did not represent a true picture of the situation.

(By the way, in real life, I suspeect we'd actually enjoy a tour together, regardless of gear.)
05-19-2006, 08:37 PM
Alpinist

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

I have not done the route (sot that is a huge caveat), but all friends' reports back to me tell me there is a lot more time spent traversing and ascending (and firm conditions) than skiing pow. From that perspective -- and I think there isn't a soul who would argue otherwise -- the setup one would choose as optimal for the H.R. is very different from what one would choose for a day tour in the PNW.

ABSOLUTELY AGREE. The irony is that the moron left his Legend 4800s in the apt. and took off with the Gots just to brag.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

Well, the truth is that I am about 100x more likely to remove my skis in a steep couloir in order to downclimb or rappel, than I am to have to put my skis on in the middle of a descent in pow. But that's just me.

Fair enough, but for other people (not as experienced as you) they fall in pow and bindings pop out, in those situations Dynafit is nightmare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

Well, I stated it in my post above, but here it is again:
I use Garmont MegaRides (with modifications) every day of the season, hiking and riding lifts. I've posted in several threads tips on how someone can maximize performance of those boots.

I search for your posts on Megaride Mods. But the only thing I found is this: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...7&postcount=46. Seems that in the past you were also in my same school of thought: according to the post, you wished you could fit XTs instead of soft Dyanfit boots. The only mod I did on my Matrix was the XT tongue. It stiffened them a bit, but not laterally which is more important in my opinion. Still, I can't picture myself riding Gots on anything but my Lange. Too damn big for my Matrix.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

By the way, in real life, I suspeect we'd actually enjoy a tour together, regardless of gear.

I have no doubt about it. Let's not forget, this is only the Internet.
05-19-2006, 11:52 PM
upallnight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

I search for your posts on Megaride Mods. But the only thing I found is this: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...7&postcount=46. Seems that in the past you were also in my same school of thought: according to the post, you wished you could fit XTs instead of soft Dyanfit boots. The only mod I did on my Matrix was the XT tongue. It stiffened them a bit, but not laterally which is more important in my opinion. Still, I can't picture myself riding Gots on anything but my Lange. Too damn big for my Matrix.

Actually, here is a thread where I describe my boot philosophy and Mega Ride mods for the AT folks.

While you're right, I loved my Denalis (for a long time), I only loved the older red boot/red tongue Denali. I wasn't a fan of the silver XT, TT tongue when I put it on my original Denalis, so while I didn't try the full-on XT or TT (red/silver and blue/silver), I don't think I'd want them (personally).

If my Denalis has been Dynafit-compatible, I never would have been prompted to buy the Mega Rides (I was tired of using TLT4Pro's for Dynafit compatibility, as they were more similar to the F1s and a chore to drive big skis)...but once I did buy them, I am so happy I did as I believe the Meg Rides serve every purpose for me, including long(ish) tours where the descent is still a priority, riding lifts inbounds, hiking, skinning, etc.

I rode 190 Gots somewhere around 60 days this season with the old Denalis or Mega Rides; loved 'em.

I like a laterally stiff boot, but progressive forward flex.
05-20-2006, 07:03 AM
Alpinist

Thanks for the link to the mods. I've already got the stiffer tongue (albeit not a Flexon, but an XT/TT grey tongue) on my Matrix and it was a great improvement. However, laterally the boot is still soft.

The Scarpa thermo liners are almost new (after heavy use I discovered there was a factory defect on them and the shop exchange them very recently for free, customization included :) ) so I can't really justify new thermo liners now. Although I researched a bit on those Alpine Custom Power Wrap (Intuition) liners mentioned by you and they might be a solution for the lateral softness issue in the future. Am I right?

Regarding the Booster Strap, I thought about it too but then reconsidered given the fact I don't see how this can improve lateral stiffness at the ankle area. Maybe I got it wrong.

If you want to use Denali's or any other non Dynafit-compatible boot with TLT's, there is is: http://wildsnow.com/articles/denali_..._retrofit.html

But I am sure you've seen this before. Cheers.
05-20-2006, 12:44 PM
upallnight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

The Scarpa thermo liners are almost new (after heavy use I discovered there was a factory defect on them and the shop exchange them very recently for free, customization included :) ) so I can't really justify new thermo liners now. Although I researched a bit on those Alpine Custom Power Wrap (Intuition) liners mentioned by you and they might be a solution for the lateral softness issue in the future. Am I right?

The liner will certainly help a bit with the stiffness, but you can't make it something it's not -- it will never be anywhere near an alpine race boot. It is how I like it, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Regarding the Booster Strap, I thought about it too but then reconsidered given the fact I don't see how this can improve lateral stiffness at the ankle area. Maybe I got it wrong.

The Booster Strap does improve overall stiffness a bit, but it affects the upper cup and forward flex, not the lateral stiffness at the ankle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinist

If you want to use Denali's or any other non Dynafit-compatible boot with TLT's, there is is: http://wildsnow.com/articles/denali_..._retrofit.html

But I am sure you've seen this before. Cheers.

Thanks! I have seen it before. I wouldn't trust the epoxied Dynafit receptacles at the toe on any serious terrain or long tour, given the stresses placed on the toe during hard skiing. Cool project, though!

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