Atk raiders inbounds

sure it is light, but the setup has little to no elasticity - meaning that everything has to be absorbed by your knees (bending your knees to absorb or though the bones dissipating the energy). Sure, it is direct / precise, but the ski and bindings do literally nothing of the work of smoothing out the terrain.

My guess is that a progressively (type -4 to -6 from center) mounted ski with low swing weight and some heft to it will ski similarly with a bit of speed wrt be able to throw them around, but be about a million times easier on your knees as well as wear you out less through the day. Soaking everything up and keeping control of flappy light skis takes a lot of effort too, especially compared to heavier skis that just plows on through. And, the elasticity in the binding helps you being able to keep the ski tracking too - the rigid bike vs full suspension analogy is apt.

And yes, I have a skied ATKs with FR-spacers quite a bit. I ended up going back to Vipecs/Tectons to get more elasticity - my knees just became so damned sore that it was not worth the 200gr saved for me.

lastly - you do you. I do not really understand what feedback you are expecting to get - if it is confirmation that it is a great idea then a touring forum/thread might be a better source :)

I appreciate light weight gear at all times and don’t find much value in heavy bindings just because they are heavy. That said, I’m not a fan of pins inbounds and I think proper lightweight boots are much less forgiving inbounds (or anywhere else). It’s good to get some practice on them and I know people that are good enough to ski well with light boots and pins in all conditions but I’m not one of them.

My hesitance with pins inbounds is the higher chance for a spiral fracture. I dismissed it as an unlikely but possible event until I had an avalanche student get balled up on an easy groomer on their way back to the trailhead and end up with a tib/fib break, a lot of pain, and some lingering complications. I don’t know if the tech bindings contributed to this break but the problem suddenly became more real and less of a theoretical possibility. I’m not here to tell anyone what right and wrong is, just to mention that the hazard seems to be real and you’ll have to decide for yourself if that’s ok.

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Originally Posted by mitch_cumstein

How many of you posting have skied the freeraider with the spacer?

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I ride a c-raider, shimmed to minimize ramp angle, no brakes, and a freeride spacer. They are suuuper solid, even inbounds. I'd still rather have an alpine binder in the jankiest of conditions, but even then as soon as I start skiing I tend to forget I'm on pins.

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Originally Posted by mitch_cumstein

I disagree with all of you jongs.

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I have a set on my touring skis, definitely a good skiing touring binding, but everyone saying stuff you don't want to hear is right. It's still a major compromise. That could work for you, but I have zero interest in skiing my in bounds, even with my kids.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

And yes, I have a skied ATKs with FR-spacers quite a bit. I ended up going back to Vipecs/Tectons to get more elasticity - my knees just became so damned sore that it was not worth the 200gr saved for me.

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That's pretty much it. Fritschi Vipecs and Tectons have elasticity. Shift has elasticity. ATK - nope

delete -duplicate

Bitd i ripped a few dynafits out at high speed in sketchy spots. Never again, but i intrigued with the atks for bc skiing.

Think about this: what are you all skiing on your touring gear? Perfect, untracked, light pow? When i tour (on the same setup) im usually skiing new england jank. I think this puts alot more stress on the gear and risk of injury for all the aforementioned reasons than lapping the resort. The logic behind not skiing pins inbounds doesnt really make sense.

I think skiing touring gear well is much more difficult than skiing heavy alpine gear. Maybe thats part of why im liking it. Its a new feeling and you have to be really dialed in your technique to arc good, fast turns.

Im mostly only skiing groomers and easy bump lines in the reaort. If its a pow day and i expect a lot of cut up snow im reaching for a full alpine setup. If im looking to bomb around with a crew im grabbing my alpine setup.

Point of the thread wasnt really to ask if its safe or better or a good or bad idea. Im digging crusing around the resort on the at setup. Its kind of made skiing fun again after 35 years. Its also just fun to talk about the feeling. I like feeling the snow, the feedback, the minimal material between my feet and the mountain. I’m not skiing shitty. Im ripping and its wicked fun…gotta be someone else out there…

Is there a max lifetime of alpine vs touring bindings, like in terms of number of runs down a hill and assuming bad snow but regular binding maintenance?

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Originally Posted by ma8103

Is there a max lifetime of alpine vs touring bindings, like in terms of number of runs down a hill and assuming bad snow but regular binding maintenance?

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I’ve never seen sensible quantification of this, but if I had to make an estimate based on using dozens of each to end of life, a high quality alpine binding might be reliable for 1000 days, whereas pin bindings 100 - 300 depending on the model.

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

I’ve never seen sensible quantification of this, but if I had to make an estimate based on using dozens of each to end of life, a high quality alpine binding might be reliable for 1000 days, whereas pin bindings 100 - 300 depending on the model.

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Wild. In terms of distance descended, would you think it’s more like 10000 runs to 500 runs? Im assuming 10 runs per alpine day and 2-3 per touring day

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Originally Posted by ma8103

Wild. In terms of distance descended, would you think it’s more like 10000 runs to 500 runs? Im assuming 10 runs per alpine day and 2-3 per touring day

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Thinking about it in terms of runs doesn't seem very useful.

1) touring bindings see stress on both the climb and descent, whereas alpine bindings only really see stress on the descent.

2) at least for my personal use, touring bindings see a lot more "low stress" snow. I'm mostly touring to find soft snow and I'm successful more often than not. But my alpine bindings spend plenty of time hammering through chunky, icy shit. The "average" run that each binding sees is quite different.

3) touring boots are floppy noodles and the skis are lightweight twigs. The amount of force I can put into a binding with a proper alpine boot and a heavy alpine ski is a lot different than what I'm achieving in my touring boots on touring skis.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Thinking about it in terms of runs doesn't seem very useful.

1) touring bindings see stress on both the climb and descent, whereas alpine bindings only really see stress on the descent.

2) at least for my personal use, touring bindings see a lot more "low stress" snow. I'm mostly touring to find soft snow and I'm successful more often than not. But my alpine bindings spend plenty of time hammering through chunky, icy shit. The "average" run that each binding sees is quite different.

3) touring boots are floppy noodles and the skis are lightweight twigs. The amount of force I can put into a binding with a proper alpine boot and a heavy alpine ski is a lot different than what I'm achieving in my touring boots on touring skis.

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Those are good considerations. I’m thinking in terms of the thread intent of using tech bindings at a resort, primarily downhill and getting at something like a standard fatigue life given the same conditions.

Uphill definitely changes that, as does the noodly boots and skis, but I was trying to ignore those in my question.

Almost all touring parts wear faster than alpine parts. Especially when being hammered on more aggressively inbounds through moguls etc. The toe and heel pins of the bindings wear. The toe and heel tech inserts in the boot wear. Any off the shelf tech compatible boot is going to have a walk mode, and that wears and develops play. So I don't really get the concept of skiing tech gear inbounds. Sure, the initial outlay is higher, but your touring gear will last way longer if you use an alpine set up at the hill. So it doesn't really cost any more in the long run, and you are using the best tool for the job all the time.