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FWT also does a better job of injecting new, young talent. Love Rampage and I know there are some young guns, but you also have guys who have literally participated in every one since 2001 and have more/less built their careers on this single annual event.
Imo. Old-school Rampage free-rides sell, but whos buying anymore (other than pinkbikers:wink:). Well done Brendog, unfortunately all the kids want slopestyle/freestyle. It's all business for redbull. Perfectly manicured step-down slopestyle with added consequence is just progression, with Semenek advertising as such on a single crown only speaks to the broader slopestyle market. Imagine if FWT allowed crews to build in-runs and booters or other (freestyle) features at say Hukuba or Kicking Horse or fiberbrunn , itd turn into something similar to TRice's Natural Selections freestyle spectacle. maybe fwt is already thinking about that.
Natural Selection is another good analogous event. Still rad, but not big mountain freeride in that traditional sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by skiSilent_skiDeep
I wasn't referring to the format of the event. Just referring to the judging and rewarding clean landings over larger, looser airs.Quote:
Originally Posted by grskier
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Except the judging for this year’s rampage was still all over the place even in that regard. Strait fumbled his tail whip and only a last second recovery saved what could have been a nasty crash, and yet he still scored higher than Brendan who laced all his features clean and in control.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
“The boos were loud, and they reverberated through the canyon”
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Yeah, no argument there. Fairclough's score was way off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky
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Yeah, Strait's score was bullshit. Seemed to hold for everyone not named Kyle Strait, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky
I was thinking about the slopestyle comparison today. Anyone saying that clearly hasn't seen a Crankworx event recently. Those guys are throwing multiple rotations, multiple combinations, and sometimes both off every hit. It's basically backflip double tailwhip to late double bar-level combos for the whole run.
Yeah agreed. Don’t think he deserved to win, but a 76 almost seemed like a deliberate snub. Should have been top five IMO, and it was definitely the run I enjoyed the most watching it live.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
The other weird thing about the judging this year is that it seems to go against the justifications the judges issued last year when Berreclough came out defending their scores against last year’s backlash. I’ve only copied a bit of his explanation below because it’s so long:
“The hot topic right now is Bienve, and how his score was so low because everyone looks at the big features that prominently stick out in everyone's mind, and what everyone focuses on. So for Bienve's run, his upper portion of his line was one of the mellowest ways to get off the top, and he didn't have a lot of speed on it, so he was riding it fairly timidly. And then as soon as he got roughly around the halfway mark of his run, he really turned it up.
He flipped off the step down onto the lily pad, which was rad, and then he went into his front flip over the canyon gap. At the end of the day, those three features [Editor's note: he forgot to mention the big three drop right above the lily pad flip, but is referencing it here as one of Bienve's three big moves.—Ed] were amazing, and they were over really big features. The canyon gap I believe is 72-73 ft, I'd have to check my notes, but tip to tip, it's one of the biggest. But keep in mind with that canyon gap, the sightlines are really good, you're looking at everything when you're coming into it, and everything's super buff and manicured. You have a nice mellow in-run, because you're coming off a drop. Obviously flipping into the lily pad is super nasty, but then he's got a really long run out into that, so he's got a lot of time to shut it down on the brakes if he doesn't want to hit it, and he's got a lot of time to check his speed and gauge how fast he's going. And then on the landing itself, the landing is super big and wide. It was one of the only features that the event actually pre-built for the riders just because it's such a prominent feature, and there's just no way that athletes can take on a build like that. And then after that, he goes into a couple of tricks down on the lower stuff. And I hope everyone knows that this is a big mountain freeride event. And when you do a bunch of tricks down low on dirt jump-style features, you're not going to get rewarded as well versus doing those big tricks up high on the mountain where there's exposure.
This brings me to some of my other points. It is a big mountain freeride event and not a slope style event. If you are doing your tricks up high on the ridges where there's a ton of exposure, you're going to get rewarded very well. And that's was the case where athletes that were riding ridges that were skinny and had a ton of exposure they definitely got rewarded.”
Then fast forward to this year and Semenuk takes it with on the oppo whip off the lily pad and the flip whip lower down, with pretty much his whole run being on the more groomed features that had less exposure. Insane skill and execution, but doesn’t really line up with what Berreclough was saying after last year’s. Then you consider Cam Zink winning last year with that enormous step down backie, but then TVS doesn’t even podium this year with a similarly large step down front, which is an even more committing and less common trick.
So some of the judging didn't really make sense to me just looking at this year’s in isolation, but add in what the judges said to justify last year’s scores and it makes even less sense.
Pinkbike Podcast has a somewhat interesting discussion about Rampage. Highlights:
1) they’re obviously judging their friends emotionally (Kyle getting extra points instead of negative points for a mistake)
2) it’s super weird that judges talk to each other before scoring.
3) there is no reason to pick a more creative line or do anything that showcases downhill riding skill.
4) no transparency.
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1) yeah, Kyle's score is an outlier in the positive direction, just as Brendog's is an outlier in the negative direction. I think that's pretty common though; they (and many other judges) seem somewhat less concerned about getting the ranking right in the lower half of the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2e
2) this doesn't seem that weird to me. It's pretty common. See: every single criminal trial in America. The jury talks amongst themselves.
3) disagreed. See t-mac's line. It wasn't his tricks that landed him on the podium, it was his burly line.
4) agreed that the judges need to do a better job of stating the criteria for their judging.
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Scoring always seems to be an issue at the end. Pretty incredible what these guys are doing regardless of points.
That’s where I’m at with all this. A lot of holy shit’s come out of my mouth and I’m blown away they can actually ride their bikes carrying those enormous testicles.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/tom-va...page-2024.html
TVS not holding back. I honestly wonder if the judges/organizers think giant front flips are just too dangerous and don't want to reward it, even if stomped.
I rode with an old school sc guy today who knows everyone from the beginnings around here. He mentioned rampage and I said it was typical crazy but the scores where hard to understand. He follows with he knows two of the judges well and its so hard with a subjective event. And I just agreed and the discussion regarding scoring ended. I don't think he knows of any ground rules they're given and I'm not sure anyone does. Seems like it wouldn't be spoken about if there was...idk.