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Hamas isn't justified with this attack.. But Israel has an appalling human rights record as well . according to more than a few Israel dissidents.. Not a black and white situation in any country in the world.. But especially in that region of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by summit
Over 300 dead Israeli civilians and over 2000 injured is proportionally like over 10,000 dead Americans and 70,000 injured. That will have to be answered for.
Hard to say what Israel will do re the hundreds of hostages. Israel puts a very high price on the lives of its citizens... but if the alternative is paralysis they may be forfeit.
It sounds like at least one German citizen, Shani Louk a young woman, was taken hostage when Hamas gunmen overran a dance party "Music Festival for Peace." Her half naked, beaten, and possibly dead body was paraded in Gaza by Hamas.
It would be nice if a Jordanian/Saudi force went in and cleaned house in Gaza, but such a thing is a fever dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
Last I checked it was an illegally occupied territory. A frequently abused one at that. Generally, some partisan violence is to be expected in such a situation. And generally, the blame ultimately belongs on the occupier.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
Keep beating up the powerless when they fail to resolve their problems - that always leads to good outcomes. /s
If the past is a predictor, it will be answered for many times over. But with what end game in mind?Quote:
Originally Posted by summit
And a very low price on its residents. How could this lead to trouble?Quote:
Originally Posted by summit
Who is occupying Gaza again? Oh wait, that would be Hamas...Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
Now here is some partisan violence for you to blame the Israelis for, if you can stomach it:
https://twitter.com/LeoKearse/status...88697635451035
Can you stomach Hamas gunmen cornering and massacring entire civilian families? Just some partisan violence... they brought it on themselves, right?
Child hostage being abused... just some partisan violence... his own fault really:
https://t.me/ILtoday/2307
Rough translation from LSL's POV: "Why did you kidnap yourself? Why did you kidnap yourself?"
"A day of celebration ... The struggle for freedom is rarely bloodless and we shouldn't apologise for it."
LSL = justifying terrorist massacres of civilians
A sad and good question. What is the solution to be? Probably hard to see when the blood of 100s of civilians is still wet on the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
There's always genocide. It's worked elsewhereQuote:
Originally Posted by summit
Hamas claims Iranian support and support of another unnamed country in enabling their surprise attack:
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...69691457626143
That's a horrific suggestion. Although, that is the stated goal of Hamas towards the Israelis.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
I bet you haven't the courage to go watch those links. Easy to say what you say without having to see what you are justifying.
Could establish a virtual prison and economic blockade, with regular military action against any dissidents. Oh wait, that's how we got here.
How did "we" get to that again? Do tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
Neverminded Israel further relaxed the border with Gaza just recently. In whose interest was it to escalate instead of give peace a chance?
It's a shame that Israel has sole control over the Gazan border... oh wait... we'll just ignore Egypt's responsibility here because they aren't evil Israelis... right? Right? Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm...
Keep on defending terrorism! It is a good look on you. Or recognize that this is the Palestinians are being exploited, again, by Iran and Russia. Hamas is the tool. Israelis, Palestinians, and the free world are the victims.
Ultimately, Putin desperately needs WW3 with China on its side and India "neutral". Sowing chaos is part of that play. Crumble the cookie and hopefully get China to join him.
Buncha Israeli girls taken as hostages, kidnapped themselves really... right LSL?
https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/st...50016799695249
I sort of understand the world's issues with Israel's human rights shit over the last few decades BUT if your adversaries and neighbors constantly lobbed rockets at you, bombed your buses and markets, regularly maimed and killed your citizens and constantly say they want you all dead what's the proper response? Shut up and let the rockets fly? Thank them for hating you and wanting you dead? Fuck that. Treat them like shit and make things hard. Fuck, they're a bunch of nomads right? Give em a blanket and send them out to walk aimlessly around the fuckn desert.
Don't forget intentionally and specifically targeting and bombing an ambulance
https://twitter.com/emilykschrader/s...18465210355991
BTW Hamas just released that video. They proud
No defense here. Just looking for solutions, and noting that people without power cannot do much. I don't think comparing blood is useful. It's red and vital.Quote:
Originally Posted by summit
Israel has long exploited the Palestinians. Create a second class citizenry and expect dissidents. Also expect interested entities to exploit your dissidents. Surely you're aware.
In the United States, we called it the Indian Problem. Some say the solution was shameful. I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitylover
That's fucked upQuote:
Originally Posted by summit
You sound exactly like Rod in the Ukraine thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
Hate to tell you, but while Israel has done egregious things, overall it is always Israel that has sought the peace, offered recognition for recognition, traded land for peace. While there have times of Palestinian progress towards peace, it has always been the Palestinians who denied the Israeli's right to exist, from the moment the UN created the partition onwards to today, because they were pushed to ongoing terrorism by their Arab "brothers," Iranian "allies" and newly Russia "allies."Quote:
I don't think comparing blood is useful.
Israel has long exploited the Palestinians. Create a second class citizenry and expect dissidents.
If Israel laid down their weapons today, what would tomorrow look like when their neighbors believe they should all be pushed into the sea and killed?
If the Palestinians renounced violence yesterday, what would today look like?
Unfortunately today looks like exactly what I don't want. It looks like exactly what Iran and Russia want.
Not judging. Unfortunately, I have seen that action by both sides in wars, including by the Ukraines. "Hey Dad, did you feel safer as an ambulance driver than a Army Ranger rifleman?" "Driving to and from the battle down the road with a red cross on the roof to aim at? Not really. Got me a Combat Medic Badge."Quote:
Originally Posted by summit
Anyway, War is Hell. Carry on.
Yes they have. As have many. If we all stop, the world might be a better place.Quote:
Originally Posted by summit
Platitudes don't solve multigenerational ethnoreligious conflicts being stoked by third parties. I'm not sure what does.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
Somehow neutering the malignant cancers that are Putin's Russia and Theocratic Iran is about all I can see that would.
I am by no means a Middle East political expert, but based on what I’m reading/ seeing, this seems really fucking bad. Hezbollah just told the Israeli government through Egyptian back channels that they will invade if Israel moves on Gaza…. How long until Israel lobs a nuke at Tehran? Or Damascus? Shit is beyond fucked.
Summit your bias is extremely plain.. after world war II, the Israelis were very happy to use terrorism against Palestinians and the British in Israel... But of course you could say it started a couple thousand years before that... Those stupid s**** fight about everything and they're very happy to kill each other and they justify it all the time because of their stupid f****** organized superstition.... Many poxes on both their houses... But you obviously have an interest in just one house.. hopefully the fighting stops but in my opinion it never will.. until everybody there is dead. Which may take a few thousand years or maybe never