90% of people buy boots that are too stiff

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Originally Posted by SuperFun

When you ski you want your weight forward with your shins pressing against the boot tongue. If you can't bend your boot forward enough your weight won't be in the right place. About the only time I can press stiff boots far enough forward is on a race course or hard snow at high speed. I mainly try to ski powder, a stiff boot will not flex enough to stay balanced. Even on hard snow a medium flex boot will bottom out it's flex range and you can still transfer power to the front of the ski when the cuff hits the lower shell.
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serious question but why does you boot have to flex to stay in balance? If the meduim flex boot bottoms out and then it can transfer power, why not just ski a stiff flexxing boot that has the aligment you moved into ?

Also should you ski forward all the time or is there for and aft movement in your skiing? the general consensus among high end instructor,technical skier and racers is that we move for and aft though our turn to remain in better balance.

https://vimeo.com/146556883

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sdEFYz7i2g

if your forward all the time, you are fucking up the way you turn. The skis take a longer path than our body and need to get away from us to actually be able to ski dynamically.

I think 90% of your statistics are wrong...

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

Um. I don't think he was really asking for your opinion. It was a joke.

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nothing I said was an opinion.

Pretty sure we all "mostly try to ski powder" and I'm also pretty sure that we all mostly DON'T ski powder. Hard/variable snow is a fact of life for most people, and if you want to ski fast and hard on variable snow you probably want a stiff boot. Sure, you can ski basically any terrain with good technique in a soft boot. I routinely take out a leather boot telemark setup for kicks and have skied every major run at Alta (and Crested Butte) on them, including little chute, main chute, highboy and everything else on the high T (headwall, staircase, banana and funnel at the Butte). It is fun and good practice, but I can ski twice as fast with half the effort on a stiff boot (plus I can actually hit drops). Regardless of your "proficiency," boot flex depends on personal style, the harder you charge, the stiffer the boot. You also never said your height/weight which is a pretty critical factor for boot flex. I know some 5' 5" chargers who ski what others might call "soft" boots because, for them and their bodyweight, it is enough boot to flex.

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Originally Posted by Bushwacka

I think most people thinking boots are too stiff are either low skilled or the boot is vastly out of alignment.

if you skills arent low and you actually skiing in balance with hip behind feet and shoulders ahead of toes while gliding straight then the boot/binding ramp and forward lean should be set up so its just couple degree more upright than your ideal, letting you flex slightly into a good balance position and if the boot is stiff enough it will not over flex when and outside influence on our ski happens IE small bump or pile of crud or imperfection in the snow. If the boot is too upright it will have to be soft to let the skier flex their ankle into a more "ideal" position. If a boot is set up in a nearly ideal position in the for and aft plane than it can be ran with basically no ability to be flexxed. If a boot has too much forward lean/forward ramp the flex wont matter your quads will burn no matter what.

The correct ramp angle/forward lean assuming a skier knows proper balancing (Weight on heel, toes lifted, ankle closing, knee flexxed, tail tucked shoulder forward spine rounded) is determind by the skiers tib/fib to femur length ratio. A longer Femur to Tib/Fib ratio usually means the skier need the heels higher than average, and a longer tib/fib to femur ration means that the skier need more toe lift. both the boot and binding come into play.

The most sophisticated way of looking at shin contact, which does and should occur is that its an outcome and not a goal. its an outcome of correct alignment and skier moving forward enough in the apex of the turn that the boot and ski push back into them, many skier who think they need to "press" their shin into the front of their boot generally ski aft while accomplishing that "goal" they think should be accomplishing but they are not in balance are going down a fools errand of what balance is.

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You sure know how to take the fun out of skiing.

As a kid, friends and I would goof around night skiing and pop into rental skis in our tennis shoes to experience what skiing with maximum ankle flexion was like.
Of course this was also around the time we learned how to use a knife to jimmy open the lock to the adult's liquor cabinet and became aquainted with Carlo Rossi.

#lifeskills

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

You sure know how to take the fun out of skiing.

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eh tech talk is to get people set up right so they can do what they want on their skis, its harder science whether you like it or not.

its more fun to not fight your equipment, than it is to be out of balance due to an equipment issue.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

IMO boots that are too big is the bigger dilemma

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Yeah I know way too many people that think their boots should fit like slippers.

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Originally Posted by SuperFun

I just bought another pair of boots. I went to a few stores and tried on everything in my size. I bet I'm more proficient than 90% of the skiers who buy boots there, but 90% of the boots were too stiff for me. I found a pair that fit me great, then found the softer flexing version (everything else the same) online for less than 1/2 the cost of the "expert" boot..

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As a small business owner, I’d like to point out this paragraph, and in conclusion [emoji1596]

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Originally Posted by Bushwacka

nothing I said was an opinion.

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Burn!

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

IMO boots that are too big is the bigger dilemma

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this a thousand times
As for flex, I worked for a company famous for blue race boots, greatest boot in the world IMHO. I also have small feet for a guy and usually was 6-9 month out on the "new" boot until they made my size. I also would ski anything from a 110 flex to the ZB plug if my size became available. Could I ski the 110? Sure, but 120 plus is better and 140 in pink is just fine.

I found a pair that fit me great, then found the softer flexing version (everything else the same) online for less than 1/2 the cost of the "expert" boot.
So what you're really saying is your a cheap prick and flex isn't really important?

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Originally Posted by naedward81

Well, this is going to be a SuperFun thread

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is not disappointing

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Originally Posted by waxman

this a thousand times
As for flex, I worked for a company famous for blue race boots, greatest boot in the world IMHO. I also have small feet for a guy and usually was 6-9 month out on the "new" boot until they made my size. I also would ski anything from a 110 flex to the ZB plug if my size became available. Could I ski the 110? Sure, but 120 plus is better and 140 in pink is just fine.

I found a pair that fit me great, then found the softer flexing version (everything else the same) online for less than 1/2 the cost of the "expert" boot.
So what you're really saying is your a cheap prick and flex isn't really important?

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huh

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Originally Posted by margotron

is not disappointing

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Agreed, I give it a 9/10 troll job.

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

I know this is tongue in cheek, but if you've ever actually had a pair of Atomic boots there would be more truth to this question than you think. The Redsters with the faux carbon cuff were among the worst boots I ever owned.

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Well, it was my first kick at the can. At least Mikaela still uses them in slalom, that should be worth something.

OP, I think you are actually correct when you say that 90% of people buy boots that are too stiff. The thing is though you posted on TGR where everyone is in fact the best skier on the mountain and therefore our boots are just right or even not stiff enough. Skis and bindings too for that matter.

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Originally Posted by margotron

is not disappointing

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I think we can do better.

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Originally Posted by f=ma

Agreed, I give it a 9/10 troll job.

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Especially with an account created in 2009 and 7 posts. That's commitment to a bit for sure.

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Originally Posted by V-rex

OP, I think you are actually correct when you say that 90% of people buy boots that are too stiff. The thing is though you posted on TGR where everyone is in fact the best skier on the mountain and therefore our boots are just right or even not stiff enough. Skis and bindings too for that matter.

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I was gonna say, if 90% of people buy boots that are too stiff it just means the other 10% are on TGR...

Fat guy in a deformed boot.

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Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Well, it was my first kick at the can. At least Mikaela still uses them in slalom, that should be worth something.

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What does she know about skiing, she's not even on TGR.

A little clarification: I think the post was right that the 10% of skiers that post on TGR may not fit the demographic. Their boots are always too soft because they charge so hard...

And as for buying off the Internet, I tried my best to buy locally but all the shops (some local shops, some chain shops) offered either really soft beginner boots, or really stiff "expert" boots. I'm not going to buy boots that don't fit my needs because their buyers are getting the wrong stuff.

I'm just saying don't get suckered into buying stiff boots because the marketing tells you that's what you want. Obviously if you could demo different options that's your best bet.

at some point the only thing that is stiff anymore

is yer back

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Originally Posted by Bushwacka

serious question but why does you boot have to flex to stay in balance? If the meduim flex boot bottoms out and then it can transfer power, why not just ski a stiff flexxing boot that has the aligment you moved into ?

Also should you ski forward all the time or is there for and aft movement in your skiing? the general consensus among high end instructor,technical skier and racers is that we move for and aft though our turn to remain in better balance.

https://vimeo.com/146556883

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sdEFYz7i2g

if your forward all the time, you are fucking up the way you turn. The skis take a longer path than our body and need to get away from us to actually be able to ski dynamically.

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When the boot flexes your whole body moves forward, keeping you in a balanced position. You want a boot that's under partial flex during the hard carving part of the turn. You don't want the boot to bottom out most of the time, but if you primarily ski soft snow and don't care as much about hard snow, then that's a compromise you may be willing to make. For example If I could only have one pair of skis I'd have a fat ski because I care more about soft snow capabilities than hard snow. If I focused on racing I'd buy a stiffer boot and deal with it not flexing as much as I want in occasional soft snow.

Yes I ski with a fore/aft weight transition.

@BW and whoever else.

Yeah, right.

Fit then Flex in that order of priority.

How do I know that? 10 years of alpine (P) turning a pair of tele skins in tele boots on steep assed terrain and in as variable snow conditions as you can get.

Results may vary and so you don't forget, call before Midnight tonight!

no one is here advocating for a boot that does nt fit right....

Tele skiing is irrelevant to alpine discussion because the platform(lead change) gets bigger when you need stability. My NTN Tele boots feel like maybe a 100 flex alpine boot are WAY softer than my AT or Alpine boots.