Wolves are rad.

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Originally Posted by BCMtnHound

Was out last night on the XC trails, and there was about 5cm of fresh snow over much of the upper elevation trails. A pack of at least 4 wolves were running over the whole area. Some tracks were a couple hours old, while some were only minutes ahead of me. I would be lying if I said my headlamp didn't spend almost as much time scanning the woods on each side of the trail as on the XC track itself. Both very cool, and a bit unnerving. Some of those tracks dwarfed my closed fist in comparison. Guess they've put a large enough dent into the upper valley moose population that they decided to move into the main valley for the smaller game, not uncommon this time of year.

Big issues with predator/prey biology here. Wolf numbers over most the interior plateau are high, and the moose populations low. Caribou herds continue to struggle too. My thoughts are that the combination of shorter winters with decreasing average snowpacks in the plateau and lower elevations of the highlands, and greatly increased recreational snowmobile traffic across most of the area (providing nice packed trails through deep snow over large distances) is allowing for greater predation success for the wolves during the winter months. Combine that with the politics of both ungulate and predator hunts, and everyone seems to be losing. Given the sensitivity of indigenous harvesting, I can see more areas having increased restrictions to the non-indigenous hunting in the near future. And that's not going to go over well. Just too many folks on the planet nowadays, and that isn't changing anytime soon it appears.

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This post didn’t get the appreciation it deserved the first time around. Cool story; see any eyes reflect back at you? (Do wolves eyes reflect?)

Send all the top tier predators to the Midwest and South. So many fucking deer that you can’t kill unless you use a van.


IAS, also a cool story. Does/did Mustonen work on Isle Royale?

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Does/did Mustonen work on Isle Royale?

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He worked for the ferry service back in the day.

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Originally Posted by lake_effect

The target number since day 1 of wolf reintroduction has been 350. We've been at or over 1000 for 15 years.

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This post, along with the fact that the Ojibwe tribe came out and said they would kill none of their 81 allocated wolves did not receive the appreciation it deserves.

The biologist targeted 200 wolves and 216 were taken. Wolves are obviously very good at breeding and expanding their population. If they are going to be re-introduced all over the place, there has to be hunting to control their population based on science. If the goal is to collapse the population of elk/deer in order to decimate the hunting industry...then I guess I can see why pro-wolf people don't want population control. However, if we are trying to balance populations of all the animals, there are two options. We either hunt them, or we kill virtually all humans. I know which way pro-wolf people generally lean in that argument, but it probably isn't realistic.

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

the hunting industry

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:eyeroll:

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

:eyeroll:

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Not sure I understand. The hunting industry generates $17B annually in the US and at almost $1B annually in Colorado (with almost $3B in annual in state spending by hunters), it is the second largest economic driver for Colorado after skiing. As a Colorado resident, I would rather not lose that.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

Well, to be fair, it’s probably a lot of deer hunters who eat lots of venison and want more deer. That said, not a fan of this hunt, and really not a fan of most of the hunting energy/vibe/culture around here (North of Wisconsin). Creepy white trash scuzzers. I spent lots of my youth at the end of the road 25 miles north of a small town. As I remember it, there was still quite a divide between local poor people who quietly hunted for food, and the kind of recreational, government-permit-dictated, wearing all the hunting clothes and the hunting bumper stickers hunting-season vacation hunters. The former likely don’t exist much anymore as the entire northwoods cabin subsistence lifestyle has been pretty much completely extinguished, and the latter scene is just the worst stew of bureaucrats and conservation cops and awful gun nuts and opportunists selling all the gear and crap these gravy seals need to feel like real men.


Also, the Isle Royale mag is Mustonen.

Also, in around 1985ish, my mom was dating a conservationist, and though I have zero idea how this happened, at one point we had a litter of wolf pups in a box in our back yard for a few days. I remember had to leave them alone so they didn’t get too used to people.

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Hunting was a big reason they built the Mackinac Bridge--epic backups for the ferry during hunting season. Back in the day Michigan hunters--the non local kind--were famous for shooting anything that moved--cows, kids waiting for the schoolbus, each other. Is it still like that?

I came across this interesting fact on Wikipedia--"Some individuals have difficulty crossing bridges, a phenomenon known as gephyrophobia. The Mackinac Bridge Authority has a Drivers Assistance Program that provides drivers for those with gephyrophobia, or anyone who is more comfortable having someone else drive them across. More than a thousand people use this service every year. Those interested can arrange, either by phone or with the toll collector, to have their cars or motorcycles driven to the other end. There is no additional fee for this service." Never heard of that before.

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Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy

He worked for the ferry service back in the day.

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Shit, yeah. Now I remember his stories. Rough ride that sounded like.

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Originally Posted by old goat

Hunting was a big reason they built the Mackinac Bridge--epic backups for the ferry during hunting season. Back in the day Michigan hunters--the non local kind--were famous for shooting anything that moved--cows, kids waiting for the schoolbus, each other. Is it still like that?

I came across this interesting fact on Wikipedia--"Some individuals have difficulty crossing bridges, a phenomenon known as gephyrophobia. The Mackinac Bridge Authority has a Drivers Assistance Program that provides drivers for those with gephyrophobia, or anyone who is more comfortable having someone else drive them across. More than a thousand people use this service every year. Those interested can arrange, either by phone or with the toll collector, to have their cars or motorcycles driven to the other end. There is no additional fee for this service." Never heard of that before.

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Does a Yugo or Kia still blow off the big bridge once a year still?

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Does a Yugo or Kia still blow off the big bridge once a year still?

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Are there still operating Yugos in existence?

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

No problem with hunting, or population management.

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You sure?

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

This entire story just reeks of out of state lardassess getting their rocks off killing wolves in a free for all.

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This is based on feelings?

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Trapping is for cocksuckers.

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I'm not really a fan either. But, admittedly, I know very little about it.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Killing an overabundance of top tier predators makes sense, but I highly doubt any of these "hunters" are in it for that. Eat a lot of wolf meat do ya?

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Again, you've based this on emotion and things you don't know.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Nice job Cheeseheads. And the choad Feds that had a hand in this.

Trappers, trophy hunting ballcuppers and whoever "Hunter Nation" are, are all fucking lardass, incel tools.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/story...ZLE9P9c5wRn_tk

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YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW A FUCKING THING ABOUT THE NORTH AMERICAN MODEL OF CONSERVATION. YOU'RE JUST LIKE THE OTHER CITY DUMBFUCKS THAT THINK WOLVES ARE THE SAME AS YOUR YELLOW LAB OR WHATEVER YOU LEARNED FROM WALT DISNEY. SADLY, THE PROBLEM IS YOUR DETACHMENT FROM NATURE/REALITY BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN AN ARTIFICIAL MAN MADE ENVIRONMENT, AND YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IT'S LIKE IN THE NATURAL WORLD. YOUR "RELATIONSHIPS" WITH WOLVES ARE ABOUT THE SAME AS YOUR "RELATIONSHIP" TO THE PORNSTAR YOU WACK OFF TO. DETACHED. SO WHY YOU CAST JUDGEMENT ON HUNTERS WHO MANAGE THE POPULATION OF WOLVES THAT THEY PAY FOR, REMEMBER THAT YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN A CENT TO CONSERVATION.....AND WHILE WOLVES RUN AROUND KILLING EVERYTHING THEY CAN IN A TORTUROUS WAY....USUALLY EATING THEM ALIVE ASSHOLE FIRST, YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT IF YOU CAN MAYBE "SEE THEM" THE ONE TIME YOU LEAVE THE CITY TO WHATEVER JACKOFF TOURIST SPOT YOU STAY AT. FUCKTARDS LIKE YOURSELF JUST DON'T GET IT. SSS

Well, that escalated quickly.

Yeah you don't eat ass on the first date. Those wolves are aggressive

A slight deviation to interject some facts.

Wolf populations in North America can generally support a harvest between 16-74% of the population abundance (Fuller et al. 2003).
From a management perspective the maximum sustainable harvest rate is typically placed ~30%.
If managers want to reduce a population they aim to harvest ~50% of the total estimated abundance for a number of years (Adams et al. 2008).

There are a suite of wolf control methods that can be utilized e.g., trapping, hunting, airborne shooting, poison, remove pups from den (gps collared adult), sterilization.
Some are more effective than others and it changes by environment.

Given the reported population numbers in Wisconsin ~1,195 a harvest of 216 wolves is 18%.
The state's overall harvest goal was originally set at 200 wolves, though the Ojibwe tribe had claim to 81 (and stated they wouldn't hunt).
So basically they harvested their stated goal (harvested 216) - just not in the way they wanted it to happen.

From an overall population abundance viewpoint the harvested amount is not a concern. Possibly some spatial concerns, but frankly with wolf movement and pack building/recolonizing it is minor.
The management by lawsuit and special interests is a substantial concern if one is more interested in scientifically informed management than "ballot box" management.

Perspective: I think wolves are pretty neat. I hunt, though not predators.
Wolves are also super disgusting animals (I've collected way too much of their poop to think any differently) that live really hard lives and generally have a short lifespan.
Think of a dog that will pretty much eat anything, likely has some old skull fractures from being kicked by a moose, climbs into the belly of said moose, then lays up in a den for a while, then will fight to the death over territory.
So I don't know, maybe take that into consideration when you think of them as your "spirit animal"...

Americans like to think of themselves as scrapy rebellious hardcore creatures but most have the spirit animal of a pig, cow, or other mass consumer IMO

A pig is generally smarter however.

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Originally Posted by wendigo

Perspective: I think wolves are pretty neat. I hunt, though not predators.
Wolves are also super disgusting animals (I've collected way too much of their poop to think any differently) that live really hard lives and generally have a short lifespan.
Think of a dog that will pretty much eat anything, likely has some old skull fractures from being kicked by a moose, climbs into the belly of said moose, then lays up in a den for a while, then will fight to the death over territory.
So I don't know, maybe take that into consideration when you think of them as your "spirit animal"...

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Yup, the realities of the body do not tend to jive with our romantic notions of the spirit, for just about any flesh and blood aspect of our world. Mother Nature (heh) is amazingly beautify, but is also incredibly cruel and disgusting. Guess that's why we love our hounds so much - they hold no fallacies about the purity of our spirit, and love us for our faults regardless. Even though I have witnessed some of the worst of wild canine behaviour, it does not diminish my sense of wonder and joy when feeling their presence, even if I did not actually see them in the dark on the XC trail. They are true to their nature and make no appologies for it.
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Those photos from Mech, Smith, and Macnulty. Wolves on the Hunt or yours, or someone else? Cool either way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKh6ALOHKe4

Re-reading some White Fang is in order

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Originally Posted by old goat

Are there still operating Yugos in existence?

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If there are... they'll be owned by Yoopers and be blowing off the bridge. :D

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

Not sure I understand. The hunting industry generates $17B annually in the US and at almost $1B annually in Colorado (with almost $3B in annual in state spending by hunters), it is the second largest economic driver for Colorado after skiing. As a Colorado resident, I would rather not lose that.

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Not even including excise taxes generated from hunting/fishing goods that go direct to ACTUAL wildlife conservation, unlike many "Green" organizations. (Yes I know like i should be on Meateater podcast)

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Originally Posted by wendigo

Those photos from Mech, Smith, and Macnulty. Wolves on the Hunt or yours, or someone else? Cool either way.

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None are mine - I suck with the camera. I've seen a couple of pack take-downs from the air similar to the first 3 photos when working in the Ominecas years ago. The last pic of a hamstrung cow was taken by a coworker, who was also a part time guide. They took the flight down low and he got an excellent pic of what they thought was the alpha, staring up at the heli with a very fuck-you kind of stance.

I've never really feared wolves in the backcountry, except when I was out there with my 4-legged buddy. He would get so worked up when we heard the wolves howling, and I would have to tie him up to keep him at camp. They would have torn him to pieces if they ever got a hold of him.

Last time I came f2f with a pack was during a deer hunt in some thick valley bottom wetlands about 8yrs ago. We both took each other by surprise in the willows and were no more than about 20m apart. The lead was all smiles and tail held high until it saw me and we locked eyes, then it was an 'oh shit' moment, and then all I saw was three tails heading back the way they came. I don't think a grin left my face the rest of the day.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Shit, yeah. Now I remember his stories. Rough ride that sounded like.

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When I was a kid in elementary school I boated to Isle Royale in my friend's dad's boat for a camping trip. The adults were drunk before we got halfway there, the waves were huge, and I thought we were going to fucking die.

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

This post, along with the fact that the Ojibwe tribe came out and said they would kill none of their 81 allocated wolves did not receive the appreciation it deserves.

The biologist targeted 200 wolves and 216 were taken. Wolves are obviously very good at breeding and expanding their population. If they are going to be re-introduced all over the place, there has to be hunting to control their population based on science. If the goal is to collapse the population of elk/deer in order to decimate the hunting industry...then I guess I can see why pro-wolf people don't want population control. However, if we are trying to balance populations of all the animals, there are two options. We either hunt them, or we kill virtually all humans. I know which way pro-wolf people generally lean in that argument, but it probably isn't realistic.

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You are really undermining your credibility there buddy.