"Turn Beacons Off!"?

Trick question? 11 people? 20m slide path? You're at the ski area. Just start probing. Somebody will hit something.

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I'm not saying that there is never a situation where "turning off" can be helpful. I was asking how many people have seen this taught and under what scenario

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I get it. With a giant group of gapers, it can be helpful to turn of some beacons. Would you make a blanket statement to "assign a person(s) to search and tell everyone else to turn of their beacon". From the jump I asked about teaching protocol as I'm not an avalanche instructor.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Working on your basis that this is a short informal awareness class rather than perhaps some quick pre trip briefing like a mellow cat ski operation (with perhaps a as previously mentioned tail guide?) where having clients turn off beacons might be valid? Then that. Seems way more complex and advanced than just saying this.....

"Many beacons will auto revert to transmit mode after a period as a precaution for rescuers caught in secondary slides - you must familiarize yourselves with this mode on your particular beacon immediately after this course."

35 words? And a few seconds of class time.

(maybe even offer photocopied handouts of relevant pages for most current beacons)

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How many people in that class will single out these 35 words to remember when they go home that night? You are living in a fantasy world if you think anyone will remember that after a few hours of slope angle, cornices, depth hoar, wind loading, shoveling techniques, beacon searches, and terrain analysis. And if they actually do pay attention to that other stuff, they''ll never use their beacon, and if they do use their beacon, it's even more rare that they would experience the auto revert.

Bottom line, every bc traveler will brag about how good they are with a beacon in order to convince everyone how proficient they are. I've been wearing one for 2 decades and they still throw me off. All these new fancy functions, like auto revert and multiple burial functions, still catch me off guard. Truth is, you don't learn how to use a beacon by osmosis.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Trick question? 11 people? 20m slide path? You're at the ski area. Just start probing. Somebody will hit something.



I get it. With a giant group of gapers, it can be helpful to turn of some beacons. Would you make a blanket statement to "assign a person(s) to search and tell everyone else to turn of their beacon". From the jump I asked about teaching protocol as I'm not an avalanche instructor.

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Yeah, I haven't seen it taught. I can see where it would be applicable, but like I said in my first post, I'd leave the beacon in search unless I felt that there was a good reason too turn it off. But hey, it's good to think of when it might be applicable right?

It's possible this is being overthought. In a few informal beacon practice situations I've heard an instructor start using phrases like "turn your beacon off" interchangeably with "stop transmitting" when too many signals were present. By extension this should be synonymous with "search mode, JONG!"

OK, I haven't heard one say Jong yet, but I'm sure he was thinking it.

On the other hand, my Pulse won't go back in the harness in search mode. So when the searching stops or I'm not on that team it's either off or search and stow it in a pocket. Huh.

What we teach: "On at the car, off at the bar."
What I tell you I'd do in a situation with a frightened noob: "It depends."
What I'd really do: It depends...
What I wish I could do

I teach beacons to search, leader visually checks. But no doubt many situations may dictate something else is better.

Having un-used people in a safe spot with beacons in their hands, on search, is less likely to result in someone moving around the area some time later with their beacon in their pouch turned off. That is an oversight which could be very bad.

When I see auto-revert beacons in student's hands I either:

a) set them up for success by asking them if they know about the auto-revert function.

or

b) say nothing and see who read their user manuals (a pre-course requirement). If auto-revert screws up a practice search, then that person will never forget again, and neither will the members of their group. The hard lessons are often remembered.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

.......... go out in the BC with someone not educated in using a beacon.........

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how often do you do THAT?

I have never taught students to turn off their transceiver, while someone else searches. They should have their transceiver on receive/search. Auto revert can be handled fairly easy, by just telling the person to push what ever button they need to push. The search leader should always check to make sure everyone is on search before they start the actual search. If there happens to be a secondary avalanche, at least the searchers can attempt to switch back to transmit. If the their transceivers are totally off, there is no chance of getting back to transmit.

I have only been on one rescue where we had everyone (about 25-30 rescuers with transceivers all on transmit) turn off their transceiver for a few minutes. That was on the Sheep Creek accident. We had to do this on the final victim, who was the deepest burial (+14'). We did this to get the final pinpoint. That was a very special situation.

Thank you hacksaw and neckbeard.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Thank you hacksaw and neckbeard.

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Read my post #28, you do understand the concept of devil's advocate right? This is a discussion, is it not?

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Read my post #28

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I don't speak British ;)

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Read my post #28, you do understand the concept of devil's advocate right? This is a discussion, is it not?

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Well, I am sorry to offen you. No, I did not read your posting thinking "Devils advocate." I just answered several folks questions and comments, when I wrote my posting. Maybe it would be better for me not to answer posts like this, and stick my neck out. What would you like me to do?

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Originally Posted by Hacksaw

Well, I am sorry to offen you. No, I did not read your posting thinking "Devils advocate." I just answered several folks questions and comments, when I wrote my posting. Maybe it would be better for me not to answer posts like this, and stick my neck out. What would you like me to do?

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Not aimed at you and no offense taken.

I was just discussing the nuances of rescue scenarios and trying to make people think more about it than they did in their "Avalanche awareness" class. Did it work?

Shit, I dragged two pages out of this subject that could have ended in the first few posts.

ETA: and for what it's worth, Sheep Creek was exactly the situation that I was referring to.

never seen this "technique" taught. obviously seems aimed at groups with folks who can't work their beacons, but should there really be such groups in avy terrain?

Sorry, this is ridiculous, especially with inexperienced users. Never turn off your shit in an active zone or any others period. In groups when a search begins the leader needs to assign priorities and duties, everyone needs to be on the same page and in contact and have a legitimate understanding of their equip. If they don't they may be told to shut it off and stay away from the zone to ie. call for help, set up revival gear or LZ, look for activity above rescuers, and/or take notes on clues. Obviously depends on search party criteria and a competent leader makin said decisions for the party. This is not average criteria for a small group general avy awareness protocol. This is larger search party/patrol aware certified training. Not for newbies other than follow instruction need be.

I've taught people to consider turning off beacons not actively involved in the search. That's a high-level decision that should not be made in haste and should only be made by a rescue leader. Sometimes the bulk of the hazard has descended and all that fucking beeping impedes communication and situational awareness.