What a terrible situation

Pity that all these great legal brains and judicial resources couldn't have been used to review the cases of thousands of probably innocent people residing on death row in this country instead of being wasted on such a farce.

It does seem that the husband has been unfairly made out as the villan in this whole mess. As I understand it he could have easily walked away from this and left her parents to care for her. His determination to carry our what he honestly believed were her final wishes is admirable.

But mostly it's been truly sickening to see religon yet again pushed into politics, courts and current affairs.

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mur·der Audio pronunciation of "murder" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)

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Is that kinda like what some of our troops have done to wounded Iraqis? OK to put the 12 year old kid out his misery, yah? But let's keep the American vegatable alive! :nonono2:

That's what I'm talking about (Blurred)... it's lethal injection time. I'm sorry to add to this, I don't normally chime in on this stuff. But I have very, very strong opinions on this topic. And I call BS on the assertions that starvation is a pretty peaceful death, even for someone in this situation. Truth is, they don't really know. Look at all the disagreement pertaining to the question of whether she's actually in a persistent vegetative state or not.

Also, I have to say that not feeding someone and with-holding fluids 'til they die is flat-out barbaric in my opinion. Regardless of the pain issue, it's simply inhuman treatment. They were kinder to my cat when they shot her up with an O.D. and she was dead in an instant. Bing! No suffering. Do the same for a human being for cryin' out loud.

Sprite

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Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

I think it's rediculous that this came down to a judge who has never met her deciding whether she'd want the "plug" pulled or not.

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judicious adj. having, showing, or excercising good judgement; prudent; unbiased

Michael Schiavo poured his life into supporting Terry for 15 years. He studied to become an RN and a Respiratory Therapist. The money from the settlement is gone. He will be made broke to continue beyond. How long should his life be poured away on a soulless body?

Terry Schiavo died 15 years ago. The body happens to live on. You can grow her skin alive in a petri dish on it's own life support.

The lights are on but nobody is home. Much of her brain has literally turned to fluid. Not all code saves are truly saves.

This is merely a fight about her body.
However, the method is barbaric. Stray animals and prisoners are executed in a more humane manner. Why the hell are they starving the body to death? Pump it full of morphine and send her to God. Oh wait... that would be illegal! :cussing:

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Originally Posted by sea2ski

Yeah, those TV folks were pretty smart. They told people to go to the hospice to protest to boost their ratings, then they got the congress to have an emergency session to try to overturn the judgements in the Florida courts, then they got every religious and political group to keep adding their two cents because the Michael Jackson trial just wasn't getting the ratings. Yeah it's the media that's the problem. :rolleyes:

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Still didn't sway me. Awareness can be be raised by healthier means.

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Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

Also, this issue is so much bigger then politics. Hell, Jeb Bush and Jesse Jackson met today and agree on this subject.

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And don't forget Tom DeLay agrees, too...despite the fact he and his family decided that no "extraordinary measures" be used to keep his father alive following an accident in 1988.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...ck=1&cset=true

Gotta love those politicians.

At least this situation has brought living wills, etc. to the public's eye.

I'm not married, though I hope to be one day....If and when I make that choice, I want it to be made PERFECTLY clear that my WIFE is the one that makes those decisions for me. Not my parents, not my siblings, not a Judge. If I can't make the decision myself, dammit - there's only ONE person I want making that decision = the person I chose to spend my life with.

Having said that - starving the woman to death I have a serious issue with. Waiting for her bodily functions to start shutting down one by one...that's just wrong, IMO. Let's see - massive dehydration..So what'll it be that finally kills her? Massive heart failure? Brain aneurism? Stroke? Put a needle in me & be done with it, for crying out loud.

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Originally Posted by The AD

And don't forget Tom DeLay agrees, too...despite the fact he and his family decided that no "extraordinary measures" be used to keep his father alive following an accident in 1988.

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And how much did the good senator inherit?

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Originally Posted by snowsprite

No, you know what really pisses me off? It's that I don't get to decide what I want to do. If I get into some persistent vegetative state or one of severe pain, I'm not going to be allowed to take a lethal dose of painkillers and go gently and peacefully the way I want to. Okay to kill someone one way, a way in which they will slowly suffer, not okay to kill them (or really, help them die is more how I view it) in a humane manner with dignity.

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Oregon is the only state where you have options when the suffering gets to be too much. It call the Oregon Death with Diqnity act, the voters of Oregon have passed it twice, and more than 200 oregonians have taken advantage of it since its inception. Many more have had the peace of mind of having the necessary drugs on the shelf, ready for use if necessary, but never used them. Since the law was passed, Oregon has also become nationally known as a leader in palliative care for the terminally ill. Of course if you are in a PSV, this law won't help you, you need advanced directives/living will/etc.

Of course the same repubs who took the lead in interfering with the Sciavio case are the ones who've been trying to meddle in Oregon's affairs for years by trying to overturn the death with dignity act. Republicans: The party of states' rights till they interfere with the agenda of the religious right!

Shrub flies in on his helicopter to help "save the day" in the Schiavo case, but stays put in Crawford when he is given a memo saying "Terrorists Determined to Attack US," possibly using airplanes. Got to put on a good show for the religious wackos. :cussing:

1. Her husband has power of attorney, not her parents.

2. According to him, she said she did not want to be kept alive artificially, should anything terrible happen to her. Which it did. Why would he lie about this? If it were my wife, I would do everything in my power to respect her wishes out of respect for her.

2. She has been diagnosed by several neurologists, as being in a persistant vegetative state since 1990. This means she HAS NO BRAIN LEFT! The last neurologist to examine her CT scan, in 2002, had this to say:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Co...p.standard.jpg

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CRANFORD: Well it shows extremely severe atrophy. Where those black areas are, that should be white. That should be cerebral cortex, and so really there is no cerebral cortex left. It's just a shrinkage of the cerebral cortex. It's a thin band of white on the outside and any neurologist or any radiologist looking at those CT scans will tell you that her atrophy could not be more severe than it is. So even if she were mentally conscious, which she's not, she's irreversible. She's been like this for 15 years, Dan, and that CT scan shows the most extreme severe atrophy of the higher centers of the brain.

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3. Unless her brain regenerates itself, which it cannot, there is absolutely. beyond a doubt, zero chance for her to regain any semblance of any kind of normal neurological functionality.

Therefore, keeping her alive is a waste of her soul, our money, a source of pain for ALL parts of her family, and really none of anyone's business besides her husband (1st) and her family (2nd). This is not an issue fo rhte TV, for the government, or politicians - all of them should stay out. In my opinion, it is more cruel for her family to want to keep her alive than for her husband to let her go as an act of mercy.

^^^^^
thats what im saying... why not honor the family's wishes?
why kill the woman?
who knows what could happen if she would be left of life support.

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Originally Posted by snowsprite

WTF? If I hold down the little button on the dispenser too long they are going to rescusitate me so that I can die naturally? There is no common sense left in our society. All gone. It's disgusting. :nonono2:
[/rant]

Sprite

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Get a DNR order if that is what you want. This can also be part of a living will.

One of the Paramedics I work with has a DNR and a DNR tatoo.

BTW...there were like 10 posts since i started writing that

Question:

How many of you knew who Terry Shiavo was 2 months ago?


Just wondering, cause I have been listening to this crap for 5 years. This is happening in my backyard.

I am not a big fan of letting someone die, but do you really think she is coming out of this? Her husband did a lot to rehab her, for 4 years. It didn't work. That was 12 years ago. Would you want to "live" that way for 15 years? Her husband has been called a lot of things over the years. I feel the worst for him. Her parents are clinging to a shred of hope that ripped off years ago. Michael could hand her over to her parents, but is that the answer?

The overall lessons here are:

1. Fill out a living will
2. Modern medicine, though amazing, has its downfalls. Terry would have been dead a long time ago, like she was supposed to be.

It's terrible to say, but they should film what happens when she starts w/ the death rattle and thrashing convulsions that will last who-knows-how long. Maybe then public awareness will be raised as to how horrible and painful and very prolonged a death can be (and yes, my attitude is because I've had first hand witnessing of a loved one engaged in these antics).

Sprite

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Originally Posted by EPSkis

Having said that - starving the woman to death I have a serious issue with. Waiting for her bodily functions to start shutting down one by one...that's just wrong, IMO. Let's see - massive dehydration..So what'll it be that finally kills her? Massive heart failure? Brain aneurism? Stroke? Put a needle in me & be done with it, for crying out loud.

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DNR tatoo...never thought of that! Hmm....

Sprite

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Originally Posted by Summit

Get a DNR order if that is what you want. This can also be part of a living will.

One of the Paramedics I work with has a DNR and a DNR tatoo.

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Originally Posted by natty dread

Of course the same repubs who took the lead in interfering with the Sciavio case are the ones who've been trying to meddle in Oregon's affairs for years by trying to overturn the death with dignity act. Republicans: The party of states' rights till they interfere with the agenda of the religious right!

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And it's funny that people try and argue that today's repub. party isn't any different and hasn't changed. That it's still the state's right, fiscally responsible, small government party.

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

randall terry.

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danka, this guy pisses me off so much I cannot even get his name right.

From what I've read that Blurred Elevens has posted, maybe he's just afraid some judge will declare him brain-dead.

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Originally Posted by snowsprite

DNR tatoo...never thought of that! Hmm....

Sprite

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That won't stop an EMT or a Medic until they find the papers... but it is a clue they ought to look for papers.

Edited. The correct answer was:
It's none of my business and it has nothing to do with skiing.

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Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

How in the hell does it come down to the government to kill someone who has committed no crime? Even worse, let's pull her tube and have her die slowly and painfully.

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Dying from dehydration and starvation is supposedly painless in her condition, according to every doctor WE'VE interviewed (3.) Also, technically if anybody is "killing" anyone in this case it'd be the courts, not the Federal Government as a whole. Every single judge that's heard this case has ruled against her family and FOR the husband. Honestly - my wife would have the call were it me. She knows that I would not want to be on lifesupport indefinitely if I were in Ms. Schiavo's shoes. I'm sure your diatribe isn't reflective of any displeasure with the Constitution and general legal system in the "Free-est Country on the Earth..."

For a more personal take on pulling life support (and tort reform) please call that duplicitous Nazi bastard from Texas: Tom DeLay.

Bottom Line

Discuss this with your family. I'm not going to pretend that I have all the facts or know what is right morally, but I do know I've have this discussion with my parents and the legal documents are in place to avoid a similar situation. There is no right or wrong answer but there is a way each individual can exercise their belief, pending they have the right documents in place.

Fucking DeLay was all over this from the get-go. Helped to deflect attention from his breaches of ethics and the repubs' tortured efforts to change the rules to make sure he doesn't lose his position.