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Obviously you're cooler than everyone on TGR. Such an awesome skier and back country guru that you know everything and are unquestionably infallible. You can merely "sense" the snow from thousands of miles away, and "know" exactly what's going on and where to ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
Way to go.
Rog is obviously too old to learn any new tricks...
Any worthwhile discussion from those of us that would actually like to contribute solutions, and learn from others mistakes?
LULZ...........Quote:
Originally Posted by iscariot
rog
Hate to tell ya roje but, stumbling across a wind drift doesn't make you a 25 year old avalanche expert, even if you are 40.
:eek:
BTW, snowpits are for learning history not for deciding to ski a hill or not. If you're not digging you don't know. :nonono2:
oh bob^^^^^^^^^:rolleyes2. skiing the same 3 or 4 drainages day after day year after year for what? 35+ years now should tell you plenty of history about your snowpack. you still don't know? all them years of the blissful valley inversions killed too many brain cells i guess...
rog
So what you're saying is that any advice you give is only valid in the 3 or 4 drainages that you know so well...and not really practically applicable to anyone else who skis anywhere else. Good to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
Ski the East! :rolleyes2
I know, I know...
Quote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
you've got it all figured out now don't you........Quote:
Originally Posted by iscariot
go back to page 1 and get a clue there einstein.
rog
Actually I don't have it all figured out, thus being open to discussion and learning. You, on the otherhand, have been spouting like you have it all figured out, and have lost the ability to discuss and learn. Old dog, new tricks. Have a nice life cocooned in your immutable knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
i don't have jack shit figured out in the grand scheme. what i have figured out is what has worked for me thus far, and what hasn't in the way i approach the mtns i've recreated in in all their moods and temperments. you asked what others thought about which could be safer, standing above or below a tree(s) when shit hits the fan. well, i told you what i thought in one single simple word. you didn't agree, which is cool, and i didn't agree back. we move on. all i know is when i got caught and dragged for a long ways, i did everything not "by the book". face down, hands out and forward, breast stroke, not backstroke. staying calm, going with the flow, keeping my airway clear, and fighting when i felt it was a fight worth fighting was probably what saved my life and allowed me to ski away completely unscathed, not even a scratch or a bruise. luck? a good part of it was. how i handled it and chose where i did to stop in the slide path to stay clear from things that woulda maybe torn me to shreds was some quick thinking and something i thought about before i dropped in.Quote:
Originally Posted by iscariot
and about that bit i wrote about not being scared wasn't to be cocky or brag or anything. you mentioned it musta been scary and i simply told you it wasn't. i was speaking truth. wasn't scared during, after, or the next day when i went back up to re-visit the scene to reflect on mistakes made and put into memory the things i'd like to avoid in the future.
now what's this newton/physics/laws blah blah blah?(not poking fun here really). lets here it. from anyone.
rog
Not my wish to be thread police but respectfully...
Rog - would it really hurt you not to be so snarky and know-it-all in the responses? You know I agree with you 99% of the time but as one fellow practical tourer to another, lets make these learning experiences and keep the snark to other forums... Pretty please?
Iscariot
Don't get me wrong but it's like you're asking questions you already know the answers to. Don't take this the wrong way but the whole thing about pits being a time to ask questions and ponder is just stupid. If your group needs the crutch of a pit to start discussion then something is wrong; either with you or your group. You asked it and that's my honest answer.
Your question about needing a pit is flabbergasting given the situation described in the above article. This forum is about asking questions and I know the viscerality of my response may tend to dissuade asking questions. But you;re asking questions and you're getting answers (although they are from Rog admittedly and he's not holding back on the snark) but try to cut through his BS and see what he's saying.
FYI there's a thread about Pits and Snow Science and when they're useful and its here
The question about standing above or below a tree - well you already know the answer and this is it depends. To give a better answer, if I'm in tree-lined chute and I have to wait, by habit I stand above trees and I plant one ski against the uphill part of a tree but the better answer is I try to stand way the hell away from any place where I think I have to worry about bracing against trees.
And as for part about being scared during an avalanche which has nothing whatsoever to do with thread but insofar as I can tell is about dickwaving. I felt regret but wasn't scared. Perhaps others get scared. I don't know.
LL i will do my best to keep the snark to myself. not being scared is not dickwaving imo. it is what it is. some folks may find it scary. others don't. i know a coupla guys that've been caught more than once and just keep on keepin on in avy terrain. like it's no big deal. to each their own.
peace:)
rog
With regard to my close crew, no a pit isn't a crutch to encourage communication. We already have a system, and discuss it often to find gaps etc...
When stepping into a crew that you haven't been with for a long time, or just plain don't know very well, then a discussion about open communication before the tour is standard procedure for me, and a pit to discuss things helps if I feel that someone isn't speaking up.
Sometimes confronting the timid (or someone who perceives themselves as the weak link, less knowledgeable, over cautious killjoy, etc.) only makes them shrink back further; where diging a pit takes the pressure and focus off, and can allow others to join in a conversation. Conversely it can force you to take a breather if someone is too jacked up, domineering, or has peak fever. Like I said, particularly for new/unfamiliar groups, or group members. Which it seems existed in both cases.
I have a few different semi-regular crews, some all male, some mixed, and some where I'm the only male. The group dynamic/communication differences are staggaring, but we work on it, and digging a pit can be a useful tool for both understanding snow, and opening up the group. The only consistancies are you and your practices. I guess I like to use everything available to me if and when I need it. YYMV.
Group dynamics is why I like to drive... I tend to be conservative, if someone in the group makes me feel uncomfortable I say, giv'r.
If you need a ride home, make sure you're back at the car the same time as me.
Lol. I drive almost every time, but haven't used that one. Noted for future use.Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingnow
how many folks make up a "crew"? i'm a big fan of touring with no more than 3 folks total including myself. the more potentially dangerous the conditions/hazard, i prefer to be with just one other person or solo. the more folks that make up a touring party just opens up more chances for shit to go wrong imo. whether gear related, injuries from folks not paying attention, or poor or confusing communication.Quote:
Originally Posted by iscariot
rog
if i ever thought i'd ever have to say that^^to a touring partner, they wouldn't be a touring partner.Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingnow
rog
Crew per day is between 2 and 4. I rotate between about 3 different groups of friends, with some overlap. Not a fan of going solo, stopped doing that when I was 24. Most often the group size is 3 (me and two others). Very, very ocasionaly I've toured with 5 people (maybe three times in my life) and I've done both 5 as a group, and breaking up the 5 into two groups. Not concrete on which worked better. Pluses and minuses to both but didn't really like it either way. Too many people. Also broke a group of 4 into 2 groups of 2 based on different objectives for the day, met at the car after.Quote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
That is my stance too. Worked earlier this year although it was like angering the incredible hulk. Yikes. I felt just fine about the decision and sure that person does too. Move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
Tgr is or can be for dick waving if you choose but when you are out in the mtns for real best to leave the ego at home - you will live longer.
Touring with more than 3 in avy terrain is less than ideal but h as ve done it but 5-6 is my limit. I prefer groups of 3 to 5 no more.
I do and will tour solo but we have a much different snow pack and tend to cherry pick ideal days or disl back objectives to suit higher risk days.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using TGR Forums
Agreed. Ego at home is a must.
right onQuote:
Originally Posted by iscariot
rog
Here is another example of ego and or stupidty.Quote:
Originally Posted by iscariot
Spoke with my best bud in Tride today and although they got 14" of the goods and no one on the hill two knuclehesds decide to ski temptation chute after weeks of no snow and xtreme cold. Lucky they were not hurt. One partially buried and self xtracted and the other out ran it.
Does anyone here really think that a non-controlled chute is good to go knowing the recent history and new snow? wtf? Does anyone think if they had dug a pit that it would have helped? C'mon dude? Lucky or something.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using TGR Forums
solo is just a whole other deal, or sport if you will, imo. love it for the peace, quiet, and clear focus it requires. going solo has always felt safe to me as it's just my own communication with myself, my moves and just my moves, and choices alway seem to be scaled back/safer. for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by lynchdogger
rog
sometimes we go out with new people and you never know... I agree with keeping the groups small. We've had MAX 8, those days we stick to conservative or known terrain.Quote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
I've never actually had to say it, if I did i wouldn't be going out with them any more. Fortunately Lee and I make a great duo for 80% of our touring days.
Thank you for saying this... This could be a huge resource for learning and discussing, and people get so mean about everything that people cannot ask questions for fear of the attack. Disagreeing nicely is more conducive to learning, and some of the bickering that takes place isn't even about right or wrong, its about different actions that are better than others in different situations, or different styles of travel, communication, evaluation...Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
I believe the not being scared thing. When I fell and slid into the moat, I wasn't scared at all. I was trying to stop myself, and worried about taking out the people below me, but I wasn't terrified at all. After, initially, I was scared when I was in a situation where I felt like I might fall and not be able to arrest again, but I learned better technique, to be less likely to fall, and turned the fear into appreciation for risk... Not the same as an avy, obviously, still, a situation of moving out of your own control towards hazards...Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
scared when it's too late and there's nothing you can do. earlier on you either do shit (good) or freeze (bad)Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
I don't get the wonderful beautiful supply of awesome mountain partners. Doesn't seem like there's an overabundance anywhere in the world. The people I've known, or met who ski alot seem to make do with what they can find; given random people seem to find me an acceptable partner verifies this for the purpose of TGR douchedom. May not be ideal, but a good, reliable, intelligent, knowledgeable BC partner is rarer than a hot chick who's not a cunt and disease free in a ski town. The people who claim there is such a thing, or they have such a thing .... lie to themselves or you. Seriously, if you don't work in the guiding biz for a living how many people do you know who can, much less will, spend the time for learning Avy Science, beyond basic First Aid, and are good skiers? Even in ski towns, there aren't that many.
^^^ Yes Hugh, I agree with this as I struggle with this right now. So true. Articulated well too - excellent analogies. :wink: