Optimal Ski Rig @ $2.50 / gal

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Originally Posted by cj001f

What Conditions require chains for traction(practical, not legal requirement) but allow you to go over 35mph? NONE! Not one fucking one! Unless you've figured out a way to make an AWD car stop quicker than a 2WD car.

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Um I can think of several... such as going 75 on an icy highway or rallying through icy streets, or jet boating corners, but thats where studs come in handy. AWD is great for street racing on ice, as well as any situation that you need to start from a standstill, otherwise its dumb, except when you seem to loose controll the best thing to do is add (slightly) more gas (at least thats what I do, and I haven't hit anyone yet) I vote for a suby, but with a stick shift auto trannys are gay

The Passat 4 motion w/ TDi would be a great buy, but it would be hard (if not impossible) to track one down. It's damn hard finding a TDi anything right now, let alone one w/ AWD [Edit: according to their website, you can't even get the 4 Motion w/ a TDi in the US...bummer]

I keep hearing that soob is gonna drop a diesel engine in the legacy for 2006-2007. That doesn't help you, Shin, but it excites the hell outta me.

Get a Subaru. They are just normal cars until you hit the snow and then they become super cars. Granted I have studded tires on mine and it also has a manual transmission.

My Subaru is a 98 GT wagon and yes the seals have blown once, but I still wouldn't buy any other car. Unless maybe I could afford an Audi.

What about a 1998-2001 Audi A4 Quattro 1.8 Turbo Avant(wagon).

$12-17K, AWD, good mpg, pretty quick, reliable, great drivers, very nice build quality.

Or

A new one(redesigned in 02-03) for about $25-31K. Drive one, you'll be impressed.

[QUOTE=flip]Both toyota and honda made awd hatchbacks in the 80s... tercel and civic respectively. Hard to find, but reliable and cheap. The toyota is roomier I think, and also has a transfer case (!).

The toyota maybe roomier but it is not big enough for four people to rod trip in. I had a 87 Tercel SR5 wagon 4x4and it was great inthe snow abd would go anywhere but it wouldn't go there very fast. Highway speed liked 90-100 kph 60ish mph) also small engine with out much get up and go.

I am also in this market maybe 3 people instead of four and I am looking at the Impreza wagon anyone have pro's and con's on this?

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

The Passat 4 motion w/ TDi would be a great buy, but it would be hard (if not impossible) to track one down. It's damn hard finding a TDi anything right now, let alone one w/ AWD [Edit: according to their website, you can't even get the 4 Motion w/ a TDi in the US...bummer]

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The VW Canada site lets you build a Passat with TDI or a Passat with 4MOTION but not both. Strange but true.

The VW America site doesn't have TDI options at all in the built it youself section.

problem with us/canada and diesel is that the grade isn't as high as that in europe. a lot of the new diesel technology (a lot of it, very impressive stuff) needs higher spec.

My front wheel drive 2WD accord I4 rocks the snow with T-rated (118mph) dunlop snows... Rocks dry pavement at 85mph and kills the snowy roads. I can't do donuts anymore though... too much traction... so sad.

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Originally Posted by Snow Dog

A hybrid works best in start and stop city traffic. There's little benefit on the highway where the gas engine is running all the time. (You move from 27 to 31 mpg for an extra $6,000. Do the math and figure out the payback.)

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Mountain highway driving is like city driving at high speeds. There is a lot of speed changing with all the curves.

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Toyota Matrix. 4wd, 26\32 mpg only 123 hp but that should be sufficient.

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Originally Posted by weibo

I am also in this market maybe 3 people instead of four and I am looking at the Impreza wagon anyone have pro's and con's on this?

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The impreza isn't much bigger than the tercel. I drive a forester... same underpinnings, but the high roof makes a huge difference. It's got tons of room for everything ('specially with a box and a hitch bike rack), and drives well enough if you can get over the looks (U-G-L-Y).

I'll second the matrix. I probably would have gotten one instead of the forester, except that engine has to be the most annoying sound since a 2 stroke dirt bike, and you can't get the AWD with a manual. If you can deal with that, it has plenty of room, MUCH better mileage than a subie, and a pretty sweet interior with tool boxes and where everything folds flat including the front passenger seat.

Like str8line says, check out the Audi A4 1.8T wagon. It's turbo and quattro. Older style is 1999 - 2001. I've got a 2001(180 hp) with 5 spd and it goes well in the mountains. It gets around 25 mpg in the around town driving and I was getting 32-35 mpg on the highway when I brought it back from SLC.

I've had no problems in the 14 months of driving it, just changed the oil. The washer fluid reservoir did crack but the dealer fixed that under warranty. It's a great car and makes for fun trips over Berthoud Pass.

If you want to give up 4wd, check out the Jetta TDI wagons. They've got room for gear and get 50 mpg on the highway.

Jeep Liberty diesel should be close on to 30mpg. If you got tons of green I wouldn't be too surprised if the smaller diesel toureg gets close to that. Volvo X Country? By giving up awd the TDI Jetta wagon would rule for that. the audi'd be nice too.

But really, a big diesel pickup is what you want. Who cares if the mileage isn't there. :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

I have a 98 subaru legacy L with 108,000 miles and I get around 28 mpg on it average. Stop and go 7 miles one way to work, M-F, with one trip to the mountains on the weekend is average, 65 miles one way, ~ 6,000 feet of elevation gain. I usually drive pretty conservatively, around 65-70mph on the highway and when I up it to 80-85 or so I notice the fuel efficiency decrease to about 23 mpg. That's a big factor with the 4 cylinder, so just slow down and you'll be fine.

Might be interesting to see what VW does with the TDi Toureg. Right now it's got some monster V10 in it (530+ lbs-ft tourque? WTF?) that only gets 23 highway. Seems like it might be possible to do a 30 mpg+ engine at a mear 400 lbs-ft...

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

Jeep Liberty diesel should be close on to 30mpg.

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splitting hairs, but it should actually be close to mid 20's according to Jeep.

come on, that is really splitting hairs, 27 is almost 30 ;)

But I don't want one much, nor do I want a sportsmobile much.

I want one of these:
http://www.earthroamer.com/galleries...__5398_std.jpg

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

I want one of these:
http://www.earthroamer.com/galleries...__5398_std.jpg

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Back when he was a regular guy with too much money it was pretty cool. Now he's just another corporation trying to seperate you from your $180,000 dollars. Sad.

I admit that 180K is over the top. Don't mean I don't want one though.

go with Chev Duramax 4dr, 17-18mpg, more power than you'll ever need. 17-18mpg isn't that far from outback/forrester territory, if you drive 15k miles a year wouldn't you spend $500 more for fuel and be considered a guy and not a lesbian?

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Originally Posted by str8line

What about a 1998-2001 Audi A4 Quattro 1.8 Turbo Avant(wagon).

$12-17K, AWD, good mpg, pretty quick, reliable, great drivers, very nice build quality.

Or

A new one(redesigned in 02-03) for about $25-31K. Drive one, you'll be impressed.

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Did you just call an Audi reliable? They are great driving cars but in no way shape or form reliable. Never buy an Audi that is passed it's warratny and make sure to get rid of it before the warranty expires. Also have a 2nd car for something to drive while the Audi is in the shop.

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

come on, that is really splitting hairs, 27 is almost 30 ;)
[/img]

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my bad your right...i was thinking like 25 - web site that i found must have been outdated...be way cool if they offered the new 6 speed w/ the CRD - PIMP mpg + power if you really want to horse it. Not that i think liberties are pimp, i want to see that combo in the TJ.

I say a front wheel drive is the way to go if your worried about gas and ability to get where you want to go.

AWD = lower MPG + high vehicle cost + high maintence

true 4x4 = low MPG + high center of gravity + high maintence

FWD = high MPG and if you use chains you can get whereever you need to go. When ever i travel to BCC or LCC from wyoming i always borrow the family hyundai sonata and feel much more safer at speed than in any 4x4. Getting to the hill is not a fucking rally race, plan ahead for the roads and a FWD will get you there. How often do you really encounter a situation where 4x4 and AWD really makes or breaks your trip up the canyon? Are those rare occations worth thousands of extra dollars a year both for the car and the maintence? No way. Spend that money on A: Snow tires B: chains C:gear and season passes!

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Originally Posted by LaramieSkiBum

Getting to the hill is not a fucking rally race, plan ahead for the roads and a FWD will get you there.

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Uh, yeah it is a race. If it's a pow day, you have to beat everyone else up there, and I guarantee I'll be passing you on snowpacked roads in my AWD WRX.

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Originally Posted by LaramieSkiBum

When ever i travel to BCC or LCC from wyoming i always borrow the family hyundai sonata and feel much more safer at speed than in any 4x4.

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What? are you kidding? I'll take my WRX over a Hyundai any day. I guarantee I'll be have more control which leads to feeling more safe.



So, in conclusion - I totally disagree. AWD is the way to go! Just my opinion though. As long as your safe and happy with your purchase - go with it. I've chimmed in enough on this post!

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Originally Posted by Below Zero

Uh, yeah it is a race. If it's a pow day, you have to beat everyone else up there, and I guarantee I'll be passing you on snowpacked roads in my AWD WRX.

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Are you the retard passing into opposing traffic? Or are you the one who's going to be in the ditch before the season's over? Because everytime I'm driving up to the mountain, except way early, there's too much traffic to pass. Except down low, when any car will do.

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Originally Posted by cj001f

Are you the retard passing into opposing traffic? Or are you the one who's going to be in the ditch before the season's over? Because every time I'm driving up to the mountain, except way early, there's too much traffic to pass. Except down low, when any car will do.

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x 2

if you hit a solid patch of ice at speed, i don’t care how expensive your AWD system is, you still are fucked - i witnessed this last time i traveled to solly. During the dry spell a few weeks ago, you guys know the roads were pretty dry, except the tight switch backs and bridge. Came around the corner and a AWD Toyota van nearly ate shit into the rock face, going perpendicular to the path of travel before he hit a dry stretch and brought it around.

Go ahead and run your rally race so you can justify your car costs, i'll leave a little earlier and see you in the lot or the ditch.

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Originally Posted by Below Zero

What? are you kidding? I'll take my WRX over a Hyundai any day. I guarantee I'll be have more control which leads to feeling more safe.

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I would take it too – if I had the money for insurance and maintenance. If your lucky enough to afford it or have priorities that demand a rally car that’s cool – but for the purposes of this thread a new 2WD car with a decent warranty might be the best solution.